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Battlestar Pegasus vs. Ghost Bear Leviathan


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Poll: BSP vs. CGSL (38 member(s) have cast votes)

Who would win?

  1. Battlestar Pegasus (17 votes [44.74%])

    Percentage of vote: 44.74%

  2. Leviathan Battleship (21 votes [55.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.26%

Which fighter is better?

  1. Viper MkVII (15 votes [39.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.47%

  2. Sulla (23 votes [60.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.53%

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#1 Zakatak

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:26 PM

Battletech and BSG are pretty far behind other sci-fi's in terms of technology. But I think that they are pretty equal matches here, actually. No nukes, even though both ships could possibly have them. I'm giving edge to the Pegasus, because if the fastest ship in BTech can only do 6G's forwards, BSP could run laps around it. Also, I don't think the Leviathan has any kiloton-range weapons which the Pegasus has shrugged off many times.

Battlestar Pegasus
Length: 1789.9m
Crew: 1700
Armament: 34 point-defence and anti-ship KEW's (think of a explosive rotary gauss rifle)
Assets: ~150 Viper MkVII, ~50 Raptors
Armor: unknown, has survived at least 4 nukes in the ~50 kiloton range

Leviation Battleship (Clan Ghost Bear)
Length: 1623.0m
Crew: 764
Armament: x2 Heavy Naval Gauss, x4 Medium Naval Gauss, 10x NAC/30, 28x Medium NPPC, x108 NL55
Assets: 8 Dropships, ~120 Clan Aerospace Fighters, 20 Small Craft
Armor: Ferro-Carbide

Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by Zakatak, 12 November 2011 - 06:58 PM.


#2 Grafix TM

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:24 PM

I think BSG would win overall.

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Update November 13, 2011 with data Specs:

Mercury-Class Battlestar Specifications

CLASS: Mercury
RACE: Colonial
TYPE: Military
FTL PROPULSION: At least 2 FTL drives, 8 x sublight engines, 6 individual engine pods (2 on main hull between engine pods), 40 x maneuvering engines (in 10 clusters of 4 apiece)
CREW: Maximum 4200, Standard 2800, Minimum 350
ROLE: Carrier/Battleship Hybrid
WEAPONS: 24x Heavy Batteries (8x forward, 8x dorsal, 8x ventral), 196x Light Twin-Turrets (across flight pods, port & starboard main hull, forward turrets), Decoy Drones, Hunter Class programmable missiles, Heavy Class D warheads, Tactical Nuclear Weapons, Fighters, Raptors
STATUS: Active
FIGHTERS: A maximum of 8 squadrons of 10 Fighters.
RAPTORS: The number of Raptors available to Mercury-Class battlestars is assumed to have a maximum of thirty Raptors.

OVERVIEW
At the end of the original Cylon War, the original Battlestars were retained in service and were supplemented with newer Battlestars. The number of Battlestars steadily increased until there was around one hundred and twenty in the Colonial Fleet at the time of the new Cylon attack. These new ships had advanced new systems, including networked computers, which had been prohibited during the War.

The Mercury Class Battlestars were the top of the line class before the fall of the Twelve Colonies. Firepower of the Mercury class is far greater than on older classes. As well, they had many other improvements over older Battlestars, such as the Columbia Class; include far more automation and automatic sliding doorways. This allows a Mercury class Battlestar, which is much larger than older Battlestars, to require far less crew than previous ships of her type. The Mercury requires a crew of between 2,450 and 3,000 compared to around 5,000 or more for older Battlestars. As a result, the Mercury class has far more spacious crew quarters than older Battlestar classes.

Due to these more advanced systems, as well as having their navigation program compromised by Cylon humanoid agents, the vast majority of Battlestars were destroyed in the opening phases of the renewed Cylon attacks. Several Battlestars were known to have been completely disabled, almost shut off like someone switched off a light switch. The Battlestar Pegasus, only survived because of making a blind jump from the Scorpion shipyard which she was being refitted.
The outward appearance of the Mercury class is markedly different from the Columbia Class and her sisters. The class is slightly larger in length and is both wider and taller than the Columbia Class. Instead of six main ion thrusters, the Mercury class mounts eight Yoyodine engines. As a result, the sub-light acceleration of the Mercury class is greater than that of the older vessels. As well, the "neck" section of the Mercury class is smaller. Instead of having a single entrance and exit on each flight pod, the Mercury class has two. There is one above and below the midline of the pods. This allows for a faster rate of recovery of Viper fighters combined with the vessel's computer assisted landing system. Unlike the Columbia Class, these flight pods do not need to be retracted into the hull before the Battlestar jumps. As well, the Mercury class does not have external ribs.

With the increased size of the Battlestar, the Mercury class has a larger fighter wing than the Columbia class. A total of two hundred Vipers can be embarked along with about eight Raptor craft. By the time of the renewed Cylon attacks, the Viper Mark VII was the primary fighter operated by the Colonial Fleet. Like older Battlestars, the Viper compliment was the ship's main weaponry although the Mercury class still carried a smaller fighter compliment than a Cylon Basestar. Although the Mercury class has the ability to land fighters more rapidly, the vessels have less launch tubes which only allow fifty fighters to be launched at one time compared to eighty for the Columbia Class. In support of the fighter squadrons, the Mercury class has the ability to fabricate all components for embarked Viper Mark VII fighters. This equipment is so extensive that the Battlestar can actually build new Viper fighters from raw components.

Like with the Columbia Class and unlike Cylon designs, the Mercury class almost completely relies on kinetic energy weapons instead of missiles. Missiles carried onboard are mainly used by Vipers and Raptors. The kinetic energy weapons are electromagnetic weapons and are extremely powerful. As might be expected, ordnance carried onboard the Mercury class is greater than the Columbia Class. The amount of damage which a Mercury class Battlestar can withstand is immense and the class carries extremely heavy armor.

The heavy gun batteries on the Mercury class are arranged very differently from Columbia Class. They use the same projectiles for ease of logistics. While the Columbia Class’ main batteries are on her top and bottom side with additional turrets under the chin of bow, the Mercury class carries most of her gun mounts along the sides within the valley created by the top and bottom halves of the ship. Four are mounted on the underside of the upper hull on the ship's bow, two more turrets are mounted on the front and back of each flight pod, with others scattered along the length of the hull and flight pods. Also the Mercury class mounts a total of thirty heavy gun turret compared to twenty-four for older Battlestars such as the Galactica.

Supplementing these turret mounted weaponry, the Mercury class mounted eight forward firing fixed kinetic energy weapons. These are mounted under the chin of the bow of the Battlestar. Like the heavy turrets, these cannons fire high density projectiles electromagnetically. These have the ability to badly rake another vessel although the flexibility of the mounts is limited due to being fixed.

For point defense, the Mercury class mounts similar light weaponry to older Battlestar classes. These are more evenly distributed than with the Columbia Class, which most mounts are along the sides including the flight pods. The weaponry also does not retract as it does with the older Battlestar. A total of three hundred and twenty two point defense mounts are carried on the Battlestar. It requires a huge amount of firepower to swamp these ship's defenses.
These ships were designed as flagships and to be able to command fleets of vessels in addition to the fighters carried. As such, these ships carry extensive command and control facilities. These facilities are more automated and computer aided than on previous Battlestars. While this cane be a disadvantaged with an enemy who gains access to your computer systems, it also allows for much more efficient linking of units. The ship mounts numerous small arrays around the hull and work similar to phased array systems and can perform both the roles of tracking and fire control. These systems have around twenty percent longer range than those on older Battlestars but upgrading the older systems was not seen as cost effective. The ship is also equipped with extremely sensitive radiological which enable it to detect nuclear weapons. The ship can also take advantage of remote sensor platforms.

Statistical Data Length: 5,120 feet (1,652 meters) for main hull / 2,769 feet (843 meters) for flight pods
Height: 1,086.8 feet (331.26 meters) for main hull / 408 feet (124 meters) for flight pods
Width: 2,226 feet (678 meters) including flight pods / 513 feet (156 meters) for flight pods
Weight: 66.14 million tons (60 million metric tons)

Power System: The Ship is powered by 4 Tylium Fueled reactors that will provide effectively unlimited power for the ship and her systems. However, it was recommended that the drive and power system have routine maintenance every 5 years. Also, the ship only carries about an eight month supply of reaction mass / fuel for Jump drives.
Cargo: 440,920 tons (400,0000 metric tons) of cargo. As well, each enlisted crew member has a small locker for personal items and uniforms. Ship's officers have more space for personal items. Most of the ship's spaces are taken up by extra ammo, armor, troops, weapons, engine, reaction mass, equipment,
Market Cost: 45 billion Cubits to construct.

Weapon Systems:
Eight (8) Fixed Super Heavy Kinetic Energy Weapon Mounts: Mounted to fire forward on the Battlestar and weapons can fire individually or in groups. The weapons are in the bow of the ship under the "chin” of the forward section. Instead of firing bursts, the weapon fires a single high density round at extremely high velocities and inflict incredible damage. Cannons have standard penalties for heavy starship weaponry when used against small targets.
Maximum Effective Range: 480 miles (772.5 km) in space and 24 miles (38.6 km) if fired into an atmosphere.
Rate of Fire: 2 rounds per cannon per melee (a total of 16 rounds can be fired per melee)
Payload: 100 rounds per weapon mount. Additional ammunition carried in the ship's main magazines (Takes 6D6 minutes to reload)

Thirty (30) Heavy Kinetic Energy Weapon Turrets: Main batteries of the Battlestar in turrets. Each turret has two barrels which normally fire together. Four are mounted on the underside of the upper hull on the ship's bow, two more turrets are mounted on the front and back of each flight pod, with others scattered along the length of the hull and flight pods. Each mount can rotate 360 degrees and has a 90 degree arc of fire. Each mount fires rounds at extremely high velocity and inflict heavy damage upon their target. Cannons have half standard penalties for heavy starship weaponry when used against small targets.

Maximum Effective Range: 320 miles (515 km) in space and 16 miles (25.6 km) if fired into an atmosphere.
Payload: 2,000 rounds (200 bursts) per weapon mount. Additional ammunition carried in the ship's main magazines.
Point Defense Kinetic Energy Mounts (322): These act as the Battlestar's main point defense weaponry and are in twin mounts. They are similar to the mounts carried on Vipers and are used against both fighters and missiles. The Battlestar has these mounts on the main hull and flight pods. Each mount can rotate 360 degrees and has a 90 degree arc of fire. These electromagnetic weapons fire high-density projectiles at incredible velocities.
Maximum Effective Range: 4,000 feet (1,200 meters) in an atmosphere and 32,000 feet (9,600 meters) in space.
Payload: 8,000 rounds (800 bursts) per weapon mount. Additional ammunition carried in the ship's main magazines (Takes 1D4 minutes to reload)

Speed Space Propulsion: The starship does not have an effective top speed but is limited by acceleration. The Battlestar can reach a top acceleration of 4 G but due to high fuel consumption and extra strain on the engines, the ship will normally travel at 0.5 G for any extended trips. Top acceleration is only meant for emergencies and combat maneuvers.
Because the Battlestar is mostly unshielded from the effects of radiation and hypervelocity atomic particles (It is not completely unshielded), the vessel is not operated at speeds exceeding 20% of the speed of light.
Atmospheric Propulsion The Battlestar cannot operate within an atmosphere. If the ship enters an atmosphere, it will crash. If the ship "Jumps" into a planetary atmosphere, it will drop like a rock although could theoretically jump out of the atmosphere before it hits the planet.

FTL Drive A "Mercury" class Battlestar has a FTL Jump Drive which enables the vessel to disappear in one location and appear at another location, potentially many light years distant, instantly. This drive requires extensive calculations and consumes fuel each time the ship "Jumps." The system can also make short-range jumps.
Maximum Range Conditionally unlimited, while the fusion rector gives power for a decade of service, the ship's propulsion is limited by the ship's reaction mass (The ship uses Tylium which is likely some hydrogen or helium isotope which has to be mined)

The vessel carries eight months of reaction mass for travel at 0.5 G of acceleration. Double the consumption of fuel for 1.0 G of acceleration and double the consumption again for every 1.0 G of acceleration beyond 1 G. This means the ship will burn the fuel 16 times faster than at 0.5 G of acceleration at maximum acceleration (4 G). The ship will often accelerate for a period of time and then shut down the engine and travel using the ships velocity. If the ships uses more than half of its reaction mass when accelerating, the ship will be unable to decelerate fully and the ship will normally only use a third or less of its fuel on accelerating so it does not run into a problem. If the ship runs out of fuel then it must be refueled by another vehicle traveling faster or be lost.

If the ship has a large amount of flight operations, the ship is limited to about four months endurance at cruising speed from the fighters using the ships reaction mass.
Other Systems Hardened Circuitry and Electromagnetic Shielding: All electronics and computers on the Battlestar are constructed with hardened circuitry and the ship itself is built with shielding to prevent EMP and jamming from damaging circuitry. The effect is that jamming and EMP will not damage any system.
Command and Control Facilities: The Battlestar carries extra communications equipment and command facilities, to enable the ship to operate as the flagship for a Battle Group.
Jamming System: This system scrambles all electronic signals for a range of 10,000 miles (16,100 km) in space and will penetrate an atmosphere for a distance of 100 miles (161 km). The system can also confuse missiles. It has a 55% chance of confusing missiles but some missiles can home on jamming signals.

DRADIS: This system can detect jamming systems at one quarter of the systems normal range allowing the system to work well against targets that are jamming. The system has a range of 120,000 miles (193,000 km) in space and can penetrate the atmosphere up to 1,200 miles (1,930 km). The system can track and identify 5,120 targets at on time. Can also target each individual missile to a separate target at up to 1200 targets.

Edited by Grafixâ„¢, 13 November 2011 - 05:31 PM.


#3 CaveMan

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 07:29 PM

Where's the vote option for "crossovers are silly"? :)

#4 Grafix TM

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:07 PM

Poseidon Battle Star
Posted Image

#5 Seth

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:56 PM

The Wobbies fired a nuclear weapon at one of the Leviathans and wasn't able to penetrate its armor. No idea of what its yield was though.

#6 Zakatak

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:05 PM

View PostSeth, on 12 November 2011 - 08:56 PM, said:

The Wobbies fired a nuclear weapon at one of the Leviathans and wasn't able to penetrate its armor. No idea of what its yield was though.


Peacemaker missiles are 500kT, but I think those can only be fired from the surface. So it was probably a Santa Ana, which is 50kT. Not bad. Thinking it through, I might give edge to the Clans. Considering that Viper MKVII's use a trio of RAC/2's but have no armor at all, a glancing shot from anything bigger then a ER Small Laser could destroy it. Only advantage here is speed, which BTech lacks massively.

What kind of range are BTech ships capable of? I figure that if lasers in BTech fizzle out in 300m, it would be just as nonsensical to have a Autocannon lose velocity in the vaccuum of space. Or is there an entirely different ruleset for space craft?

@Grafix - fan art forum, up there ^

Edited by Zakatak, 12 November 2011 - 09:09 PM.


#7 Grafix TM

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:14 PM

View PostZakatak, on 12 November 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

@Grafix - fan art forum, up there ^

I know about the fan art section Zakatak. The 3D model images that I posted are NOT BT Fan Art. The 3D model images I posted were just for this thread for reference images to which the current topic is relevant to the images. It was intended to give a more visual representation of capabilities of the BSG ships which make them appropriate for this thread.

#8 Nebfer

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:38 PM

Issue the B-tech ship carry's 300 fighters, it also has 195 Officers, 764 Crewmembers, 211 Gunners, 225 BattleArmor/Marines & 600 Bay Personnel (and likely other personnel not listed...). Also the battletestar has a crew of 2,500, and 200 fighters (and 50 small craft)
I have not seen much of the New show (to much *** killed it for me)
How ever I have seen and been in a few debates on this topic

First Rule of debates unless specified assume both sides work as advertised.
This at lest saves us of but your units wont work in our universe due to physics changes...

The battlestar has the advantage of doing FTL jumps every half hour or so and can jump just about anywhere...
Though looking at combat "footage" most combat for NBG seems to take place at under 150 kilometers (AFAIK it's almost always with in visual range of the target), thats 1/6th battletechs (900km)

Also Vipers seem to have a max acceleration of around 6 or 7Gs (not sure if it's the newer ones though), so their roughly equal their.
However Vipers do not seem to have very good fire control (not HUD as well), as they fire off long bursts and walk their fire to the target... Also their main weapons are a trio of ~30mm cannons (they have cartridges so their not "railguns"), and it dose not take much to down a Viper with them (or their counterparts).

This dose not bode well for Viper squadrons, as their main guns are what battletech techs classes as MGs and AC-2s (their are it seems 30mm "MGs" in battletech -see the fluff for the scorpion tank). The Sulla is an 45 ton Omni fighter with a Prime config having a ER particle cannon and a pair of ER Large lasers, and a Aft firing ER small laser (so a Viper is not safe getting behind a B-tech fighter), also Battletech fighters can engage targets at up to 450 kilometers, Vipers AFAIK engage in combat at a few kilometers... One more thing battletech fighters have full Helmet mounted HUDS, with some fighters (mostly in Clan, FWL and likely Comstar/WoB hands) having Virtual reality based displays giving complete line of sight with out any interference of the fighters body. A Viper AFAIK seems to not have HUDs of any kind.

So for the fighters
Speed: tied
Firepower: battletech overwhelmingly
Armor: battletech overwhelmingly
Weapons range: battletech with a range of 450km
Endurance: unknown, battletech fighters like the Sulla has an internal fuel endurance of between 400 and 14 minutes (min to max thrust), and they can carry external fuel pods or pod mount more fuel internally. as for the Vipers I do not know their endurance is.

As for the Warships, well in a direct fight battletech has a range advantage, but the battlestar has some effective main guns. On the other hand battletech has weapons that the battlestar has never realy seen before (AFAIK), that being naval lasers and particle cannons...
The B-tech ship can put into a brawd side
48x Naval lasers (55s)
7x Medium Naval Particle cannons
4x Naval Autocannon 30s
2x Medium Naval Gauss Rifles
2x AR10 Missile Launchers (two more might be avalible, depending on firing arcs)
plus a large number of vehicle scale weapons for AA defence

The Battletestar has 64 heavy kenetic penitrator cannons (four fix fowward), and the rest in 30 twin turrets (that are in fact maned!)
and a unknown number of AA weapons, and a unknown number of missile launchers.

So in short
Armor: both have heavy armor, the B-tech ship can take a 500 kiloton nuke in fact (multipule times if it rotates armor facings).
Weapons: the battlestar has heavyier cannon armament, the B-tech ship a large number of energy weapons
Accelration: unknown for the battlestar, for B-tech 2.5Gs
Weapons range: up to 900km for B-tech (capital missiles have nearly unlimited range though), unknown for the battlestar, but evidence seems to indicate that ranges of around 100km is typical


Edit:
Battletech capital scale is 18km per hex (with one minute turns), Fighters can reach out to 25 hexes and warships 50, though capital missiles can be fired on a "ballistic" trajectory (based off the velocity of the firing unit) and have it travel for a while until it reaches the target in which it activates and targets under it's own power.

Edit #2: This ignores the fact that the Ghost bears escorted the Leviathans with Aesir and Vanir class dropships.

Edited by Nebfer, 12 November 2011 - 09:50 PM.


#9 Zakatak

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:39 PM

Was the Poseidan class Battlestar from the original BSG? I don't recognize it from any scenes in the re-imagined BSG (including Razor and The Plan).

For reference:
http://www.sarna.net...28Battleship%29
http://en.battlestar...i/Mercury-class

I know in the show that the Vipers' guns were portrayed were shown as having cartridges during the loading scenes, but I think this was an oversight by the producer. First, because the gunpowder can't oxidize in the near absolute zero vaccuum of space. Second, no recoil was shown at all, and the Viper weighs maybe 5 tons so mass isn't the issue to that. And for the aiming, while no gunsight is shown, you could imply those helmets have built-in HUDS. Don't discredit the Vipers too much. The missile during the training exercise managed to destroy a sizeable asteroid, and that requires a high yield.

Raptors can mount LRM-esque missile racks that seem to have incredible range, and have what you could compare to ECCM + BHP. Also, in the last episode of BSG, Galactica was taking hits that actually knocked the ship around 100-200m continuously. Pegasus is fully armored and thicker, and from the acceleration shown over New Caprica, a hell of alot more then 2.5G's which is what the Leviathan is capable of.

I am still rooting for BTech at this point, but it isn't curbstomp. Not by a long shot.

Edited by Zakatak, 12 November 2011 - 09:54 PM.


#10 Grafix TM

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 09:49 PM

View PostZakatak, on 12 November 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

Was the Poseidan class Battlestar from the original BSG? I don't recognize it from any scenes in the re-imagined BSG (including Razor and The Plan).

No, It was shown on the Recent Remake. This Class Battle Star was shown only for about 5 min in the episode that Adama and his First officer reminist about the one blip they saw way back when. It was the Battle Star that Adama had before he got Galactica.

#11 Nebfer

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:21 PM

View PostZakatak, on 12 November 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:


I know in the show that the Vipers' guns were portrayed were shown as having cartridges during the loading scenes, but I think this was an oversight by the producer. First, because the gunpowder can't oxidize in the near absolute zero vaccuum of space. Second, no recoil was shown at all, and the Viper weighs maybe 5 tons so mass isn't the issue to that. And for the aiming, while no gunsight is shown, you could imply those helmets have built-in HUDS. Don't discredit the Vipers too much. The missile during the training exercise managed to destroy a sizeable asteroid, and that requires a high yield.
considering that they show the projectiles and they have cartridges, that kinda makes it hard for them not to be chemical based, and you can in fact fire gunpowder in space, or with modern propellents at lest (the Russians have fired a autocannon in space in real life). Also the fact that they often walk their fire dose not point out well for them having very good fire control, if they do have helmet HUDs, their seems to be little evidence for them one thing that strikes against them having helmet HUDs is the fact they often look at their consoles for their flight information.

Also note SOP for Vipers is often visual range combat, and I'll grant you "impressive" range for their missiles (but that's what 50? 100 km?), battletech that's knife fight range.

Quote

Raptors can mount LRM-esque missile racks that seem to have incredible range, and have what you could compare to ECCM + BHP. .
So can battletech fighters

#12 feor

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:31 PM

I have almost no familiarity with BSG, but I do think it's worth pointing out that the Leviathan II warship has 8 Dropship collars. Even if these were packing the ubiquitous Union-Cs or Overlord-Cs, as opposed to more specialized dropship variants, those would probably all but neutralize most of the battlestar's fighter compliment on their own, being essentially small warships as far as BSG is concerned.

Also the Leviathan carries 300 Fighters, the only advantage the Battlestar might have is with those big bays it might be able to get its fighters scrambled faster.

#13 Catamount

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:24 AM

In terms of size and endurance, both ships seem to at least be in the same ballpark, and BT seems to have a huge advantage in terms of fighters (I doubt vipers would even get close).

That said, we see battlestars chew through technologically superior ships of equal size in absolute seconds, and given the fact that BSG vessels can take multiple nuke impacts, that means that it must be packing some anti-ship weaponry with energetic outputs at least in the range of a decent sized nuke.


This should come as no surprise, as tylium, when detonated, releases "half a million gigajoules per kilogram", and looks nothing like a nuke when going off. Having normal weapons with such energetic outputs would also explain why, in ship-to-ship combat, Battlestars don't seem to fire their onboard nuclear weapons (something that would have been advantageous above New Caprica were they any more energetic than their normal weapons).


I'm just not seeing the Leviathan's weapons having energy outputs even approaching the range of a nuclear warhead if their heaviest weapons only do 300 standard damage. That would seem to fall an order of magnitude or two short.

Edited by Catamount, 13 November 2011 - 07:25 AM.


#14 Nebfer

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:24 AM

View PostCatamount, on 13 November 2011 - 07:24 AM, said:

In terms of size and endurance, both ships seem to at least be in the same ballpark, and BT seems to have a huge advantage in terms of fighters (I doubt vipers would even get close).

That said, we see battlestars chew through technologically superior ships of equal size in absolute seconds, and given the fact that BSG vessels can take multiple nuke impacts, that means that it must be packing some anti-ship weaponry with energetic outputs at least in the range of a decent sized nuke.


This should come as no surprise, as tylium, when detonated, releases "half a million gigajoules per kilogram", and looks nothing like a nuke when going off. Having normal weapons with such energetic outputs would also explain why, in ship-to-ship combat, Battlestars don't seem to fire their onboard nuclear weapons (something that would have been advantageous above New Caprica were they any more energetic than their normal weapons).


I'm just not seeing the Leviathan's weapons having energy outputs even approaching the range of a nuclear warhead if their heaviest weapons only do 300 standard damage. That would seem to fall an order of magnitude or two short.

Battletech capital armor is rated to take two damage from a half a kiloton warhead, it would take six 500 kiloton warheads to strip all the armor off a Leviathan. Also the 300 damage from it's NAC-30s is a bit misleading, it may only do 300 damage to a unit with vehicle scale armor, but it can also damage targets some 150 meters from the impact point, 300 damage worth of regular autocannons would not even affect adjacent hexes (60 capital would leave a crater some 18m deep and some 270 meters wide -small nukes produce craters in this size range).

Edit:
One also has to note that battletech dose have a capital ship weapons range advantage as well, with it being upwards of having ten times the range if not more.

Edited by Nebfer, 13 November 2011 - 10:50 AM.


#15 Catamount

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 01:56 PM

View PostNebfer, on 13 November 2011 - 10:24 AM, said:

Battletech capital armor is rated to take two damage from a half a kiloton warhead, it would take six 500 kiloton warheads to strip all the armor off a Leviathan. Also the 300 damage from it's NAC-30s is a bit misleading, it may only do 300 damage to a unit with vehicle scale armor, but it can also damage targets some 150 meters from the impact point, 300 damage worth of regular autocannons would not even affect adjacent hexes (60 capital would leave a crater some 18m deep and some 270 meters wide -small nukes produce craters in this size range).

Edit:
One also has to note that battletech dose have a capital ship weapons range advantage as well, with it being upwards of having ten times the range if not more.


I've never seen anything that solidly outlines the range of BSG ships. It's true we often see them engaging relatively close, but we see Star Trek ships engage in relatively close fashion too, yet phasers have ranges in the hundreds of thousands of km. I have no idea what the maximum range of a battlestar is. That said, considering they can cross star systems at sublight in reasonable time frames, they must be capable traveling pretty quick. Some ships don't even have jump drives in BSG. Many such ships were left behind in a Cylon ambush early on in the attack on the colonies; that was the last of them we saw. Nevertheless, these ships can clearly go pretty quick, so any range advantage not measured in thousands of kilometers should be able to be closed pretty quick.

I'm also not particularly convinced that such a range advantage even exists. Even missiles fired from raptors were able to fly far enough to make convincing vessels on Cylon sensors, so clearly things can travel pretty far in BSG. The missile fired at Colonial One in the pilot came from so far away that we never even saw the attacker.


For durability, like I said, it seems to be in the same ballpark for both. I'm sure they're not exactly alike, but a battlestar can shake off one nuke pretty darn easily, basically with no appreciable damage (and remember, bleed-through would occur even with armor still intact). The most damaging impact in BSG's pilot didn't even come from the nuke, iirc, but rather "conventional" ordinance (tylium warheads?).


Damage on BT weapons may be able to be spread out, but even if they had the same damage potential, and honestly, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY doubt that they have energetic outputs in the high terrajoule (low petajoule?) range. I could be wrong there, but it certainly doesn't seem like it (and even if they did, the unconcentrated, scattershot nature of that damage would definitely not be a match for a battlestar's ability to concentrate an energetic release in a very concentrated point on another ship's armor.

It's really no wonder Pegasus was able to blow straight through a Cylon base ship in its opening salvo.



As an aside, I'd also note that the Colonies have 120 of these things (a lot for a mere dozen worlds). This is a one on one comparison, but it's worth nothing that a battlestar is meant to be a mass-produced vessel. On the flip side, the BSG universe basically has nothing for non-space military.

Edited by Catamount, 13 November 2011 - 01:58 PM.


#16 Alizabeth Aijou

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 04:15 PM

I'd but my money on the Bears.

Quote

As an aside, I'd also note that the Colonies have 120 of these things (a lot for a mere dozen worlds).

But to make it a really unfair fight, lets pit BSG against the SLDF pre-Amaris Coup.
That'd be 15.000 regiments in the various branches, and around 15.000 WarShips, JumpShips and DropShips.
We know that after the Amaris Coup, the SLDF had lost 75% of its forces, leaving it with around 3750 regiments and War/Jump/DropShips. With a confirmed 900-ish WarShips before the invasion of Terra.

Yeah, good luck with your BSG. :)

#17 Catamount

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 04:48 PM

View PostAlizabeth Aijou, on 13 November 2011 - 04:15 PM, said:

I'd but my money on the Bears.

But to make it a really unfair fight, lets pit BSG against the SLDF pre-Amaris Coup.
That'd be 15.000 regiments in the various branches, and around 15.000 WarShips, JumpShips and DropShips.
We know that after the Amaris Coup, the SLDF had lost 75% of its forces, leaving it with around 3750 regiments and War/Jump/DropShips. With a confirmed 900-ish WarShips before the invasion of Terra.

Yeah, good luck with your BSG. :)


Did I claim the Colonials would win an overall war?

They only have a dozen planets; even a relatively minor power, like the Rassalhague Republic, has half a dozen times that much. In fact, even after they were stomped to smithereens they had almost as many worlds as the Colonies.

Besides, even if the Colonials could stop the space fleet of a major BT power (they do have 120 battlestars equal to the most fearsome BT warships out and several thousand smaller warships), they'd never manage to stop all the invading ground forces. A few dropships would be able to land enough equipment to take down any land military ever seen in the colonies).


With that said, however, a battlestar is a mass production vessel. There are dozens of times as many as there are Leviathans. Were they intended to be anywhere near as rare as the Leviathan, they would be many times larger and stronger.

#18 Grafix TM

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:18 PM

Don't forget about the Battle Star Cygnus Defender.

Posted Image
Scale: L: 695m W: 280m H: 93m
Tonnage: Variable
Speed: Variable
Power: Primary tylium energizers and advanced fusion reactors and generators. 2 reactors, 1 backup reactor, Auxillary Battery. Tylium fueled equipped and separate tanks for Solium fuel. FTL capable its jump range differs, but max is 80 before needing to refuel.
Crew Compliment:
Standard Crew: 800
Fleet Officer: 64
Marine Officer: 24
Fleet Enlisted: 600
Marine Enlisted: 112
Weapons:
-KEW: Turrets 6 Dorsal center-line, 4 Forward ventral, 4 Port flight pod and 4 Starboard flight pod.
-Rail Guns: 20 total (10 on the port and starboard side) Multi-purpose.
-Flak Cannons: 5 Port and 5 Starboard.
-Missiles: 12 Dorsal hatches, 6 Tubes each (Nuclear Warheads).
-Conventional Missiles: Ship to Ship. Housed in the mid-section of the ship where
-4 Large Cannons on the bow of the ship.
Passenger Capacity: 50
Cargo Capacity: 65000m
Shipboard Consumables: 12 to 24, 36 months fuel, food, ammo, air depending on mission criteria.
Maneuvering engine types: FTL Equipped, 4 sub-light engines, 32 RCS units
Hull Design Type: Cygnus Class
Small Ship Compliment:
-24 Raptors
-6 Shuttles
The hangar bay can house a few extras ship as backs or storage for visiting ships on long distance missions. Also has 12 maintenance bay for repairs to small ships only.
Damage Control System:

Automated firefighting capability, managed by the Boroton Mist / Foam / Liquid control center. DCS has three stations the main is located in engineering, Secondary located in CIC and Auxiliary is forward of the landing control station. All ships in the Fleet have Damage Control Teams (DCT). These teams are part of the engineering department and are charged with the safety of the ship and are tasked with fire and rescue.

Edited by Grafixâ„¢, 13 November 2011 - 05:22 PM.


#19 Mechwarrior Of Rock

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 05:35 PM

Commander Cain. Nuff said.

#20 Zakatak

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 07:14 PM

This is just Leviathan vs. Pegasus, guys. There is no Rasalhague Republic, there is no 12 Colonies, there is no SLDF or Cylons or Master Chief. Just 2 ships and whatever they would be carrying at maximum capacity.

To answer a question long ago involving Viper pilots walking their firing arcs being proof to no HUD system. I think a better explanation is that they are just having problems aiming, just like how you don't manage to land every single shot in Mechwarrior/other FPS all the time. Those were Galactica pilots shown in the TV series mostly, and they were usually trained in a couple of days from civilian vessels to fill in for dead pilots. The crew of the Pegasus is generally what it was when it escaped Scorpion Shipyards, and thus, has actual trained pilots.

For "little tiny autocannons", these things seem to pack quite a punch. Observe around 1:50 in the video. How often do you see LRM's or PPC's making those kinds of explosions? That is at least on par with NAC/30's, and as previous posters mentioned, missiles in BSG have ranges that are near or exceed 1000km.



Again, still rooting for Leviathan, but this isn't a curbstomp.





EDIT: I think the reason Battlestars engage enemies at such close range is because that they WANT to be in knife fights. Basestars, and have no point-defenses or guns, relying on fighters and missiles instead. If you are within 50km of your enemy, you don't need to lead your shots, and your gunners have an easier time picking targets.

Edited by Zakatak, 13 November 2011 - 07:23 PM.






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