388 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 11 November 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

Under 270m. Above 540m the AC5 still gets .625 point per ton while the laser gets 0 points per ton.

When you factor in range its pretty clear ballistics are better.

For the tonnage they should be!

[Joseph Mallan]

Cycleboy, on 11 November 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

As was said... damage still hitting at range. Weapon fires 2.67x as fast... so actually 1.67 Damage per Ton per ML firing cycle. And only 2.67 heat vs 4 heat per ML firing cycle (if we peg everything to Internation Medium Laser Units... IMLUs). So, again, if you have the chasis that can handle the weight, putting in 2xAC5 = 3.33 DPT/IMLU at only 5.33 heat IMLU. And that isn't even accounting for the actual DPS, blah blah blah.

TL/DR: Put your $ where your mouth is... if you had an 80t chasis with a possible 3 ACs (arms & RT) or with 8 energy ports (2 arms, 2 each torso), would you go 2xUAC5+AC20 or 2LL+6ML? Which would you buy???

I would do this with some more armor and sinks! Or an AC20 and some large & Medium lasers.Cause I don't see a reason to put all my eggs in one basket.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 November 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

MustrumRidcully, on 11 November 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

But of course, consider what an auto-cannon costs you. Even the lightest costs you 6 tons, and you need extra ammo. the heaviest energy weapon sits at 7 tons, and your engine heat sinks come for free (or at least are non-negotiable- you'll have your 10 heat sinks, ammo always costs extra). Of course - once you start installing a ballistic at all (and plenty of mechs have ballistic hard poitns), you can't help but devote a lot of tonnage on ballistics. So how can we really compare these?
And I suspect that if you compare just by weapons mounted, I strongly suspect that medium lasers will win the count and lead to an overall energy weapon dominance in weapon spend. Tonnage-wise, energy weapons alone can't win, because ballistics are so freaking heavy. You'd have to count heat sinks, but every mech has them.

I think it might be more useful, if anything, to see how well energy only mechs fare against mixed loadouts and specialized ("only") ballistic loadouts, possibly compare by weight class. (Because I strongly suspect, based on my own mathematical analysis, that you'll see energy weapons clearly dominate the low weight classes, while ballistics will be crucial in the heavy and assault categories - a direct of the "race-to-heat-threshold" heat system.)

well without engine heatsinks lasers would be dire and ballistics would actually incure some bad heatbuild up but being a strict requirement it leaves us with ballistics being cooled very effectively and needing little if none additional sinks.

the ML is of course the best laser, considering GH caps at seven, so that's six you can use just like normal, only the swayback is punished, imagine if ML suffered simillar numbers like LL and LPL's have suffered, every jenner pilot would quit the game!

comparisens to ballistics and lasers are tough and can lead to folly but in use on the field if you find dakka to out perform pew pew on too many of occasion then perhaps you start thinking is the balance between those 2 correct?

another thing that's always ruined these topics is the individuals experience being clouded by hitreg, highpingers either users there of {like myself} or the recievers will be registering more and or less damage than what should really happen and that can sway a lot of the balance depiction but overall your assesment is correct that smaller mechs are the dominant class for energy because theres lots of small stackable options that don't suffer GH. MG are being used well but i don't think they're on par perhaps they should be? heavies and assaults can stack enough ballistics and don't have GH holding them back {except ac2s} whereas the heavier energies are too serverly hampered by GH and so ac's are dominating heavies and assaults which usually make up more players on the field. thanks for confirming my suspicions.

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

You took the time to See if you could win vs the present metawhine?

You heathen! You cannot deny the forum gods of their superior Knowledge by practice an execution!!!

meta gods can still flood the lands, he used a ballistic gauss rifle! ballistics are the evil of the land run for your lives ahhhhhh!

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

Sir... ACs got pile driven with the Ghost heat hammer. They are the only Weapon that has a double digit penalty for having 2 like weapons. IF PGI wanted ACs as top dog they would not have done such a thing.

BTW what are you smoking? so ac 20's need to be chainfired, from 6 heat with 1 to 23.52 with 2. so that nerfs the jager bomb or a phract 4x or any other mech that can carry 2 ac 20's which has been avoided for boating issues. we'll never see a mauler or annihilator.

the other GH ballistic is the ac 2 which incures 1 for 1 2 for 2 3 for 3 and 4.18 for 4. up to six which is the max stack build available you're getting .81 added. woah that's a penelty. now look at the numbers for energy weapons on smurfy and you'll see a difference in the rate.

face it PGI have made ac's top dog as ac5, uac5, ac10 and lbx 10 have no heat managment learning curve of weirdness. the ease of usabilty, frontloading damage and speed of applying damage for the sacrifice of tons and ammo {who runs out of ammo, anyone?} means they kill and kill fast especially when we have more hot maps on rotation than cool ones. why else have we got missile assaults, energy assaults, JJ assaults and mix load out assaults but no ballistics assaults? i don't want more nerfs but ballistics are the choice of derp now. i was happy calling my laser stalker a noob build, not anymore it's graduated to a more advanced level of skill now.

@ sandpit. yes we know your the god of energy builds but doesn't it disapoint you that you're really the only one?

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 11 November 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[Sandpit]

GalaxyBluestar, on 11 November 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

@ sandpit. yes we know your the god of energy builds but doesn't it disapoint you that you're really the only one?

well thank you for the compliment sir but two caveats

• If I can do it anyone can
  
• Do you REALLY believe I'm the ONLY person in the ENTIRE game that uses energy builds effectively?

[Joseph Mallan]

GalaxyBluestar, on 11 November 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

well without engine heatsinks lasers would be dire and ballistics would actually incure some bad heatbuild up but being a strict requirement it leaves us with ballistics being cooled very effectively and needing little if none additional sinks.

the ML is of course the best laser, considering GH caps at seven, so that's six you can use just like normal, only the swayback is punished, imagine if ML suffered simillar numbers like LL and LPL's have suffered, every jenner pilot would quit the game!

comparisens to ballistics and lasers are tough and can lead to folly but in use on the field if you find dakka to out perform pew pew on too many of occasion then perhaps you start thinking is the balance between those 2 correct?

another thing that's always ruined these topics is the individuals experience being clouded by hitreg, highpingers either users there of {like myself} or the recievers will be registering more and or less damage than what should really happen and that can sway a lot of the balance depiction but overall your assesment is correct that smaller mechs are the dominant class for energy because theres lots of small stackable options that don't suffer GH. MG are being used well but i don't think they're on par perhaps they should be? heavies and assaults can stack enough ballistics and don't have GH holding them back {except ac2s} whereas the heavier energies are too serverly hampered by GH and so ac's are dominating heavies and assaults which usually make up more players on the field. thanks for confirming my suspicions.



meta gods can still flood the lands, he used a ballistic gauss rifle! ballistics are the evil of the land run for your lives ahhhhhh!



BTW what are you smoking? so ac 20's need to be chainfired, from 6 heat with 1 to 23.52 with 2. so that nerfs the jager bomb or a phract 4x or any other mech that can carry 2 ac 20's which has been avoided for boating issues. we'll never see a mauler or annihilator.

the other GH ballistic is the ac 2 which incures 1 for 1 2 for 2 3 for 3 and 4.18 for 4. up to six which is the max stack build available you're getting .81 added. woah that's a penelty. now look at the numbers for energy weapons on smurfy and you'll see a difference in the rate.

face it PGI have made ac's top dog as ac5, uac5, ac10 and lbx 10 have no heat managment learning curve of weirdness. the ease of usabilty, frontloading damage and speed of applying damage for the sacrifice of tons and ammo {who runs out of ammo, anyone?} means they kill and kill fast especially when we have more hot maps on rotation than cool ones. why else have we got missile assaults, energy assaults, JJ assaults and mix load out assaults but no ballistics assaults? i don't want more nerfs but ballistics are the choice of derp now. i was happy calling my laser stalker a noob build, not anymore it's graduated to a more advanced level of skill now.

@ sandpit. yes we know your the god of energy builds but doesn't it disapoint you that you're really the only one?

So effective is stupid? I am sorry, but What are gamers smoking in general. 30 years playing TT and MW games and I loved them all. This one has some problems, but to much power is not one of them! If destroying 12 Mechs on TT took 2 minutes and MW:O takes 5-7 we are taking plenty of time to play a match.

[Devilsfury]

AC's is the current meta and you literally have to use them to keep up. Almost every good sniper or fire support build has them on it. Almost every Highlander has 1-2 PPC and 1-2 AC5/UAC5's on them. THen you have Victors, Fracts, J's, SH's running 1-3 AC's because the cockpit shake and smoke is stupid OP right now. After 16 months of playing this game, there is always a meta that comes and goes. We are just stuck in this AC phase of the game.

[DaZur]

A large stable of Mechs bare ballistic slots... both current and in the future yet to come.

The premise that a pilot would choose to not populate that slot with a ballistic weapon to placate some backlash from a contingency that feels they are overtly common is so flipping daft, I don't know where to begin...

[GalaxyBluestar]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

So effective is stupid? I am sorry, but What are gamers smoking in general. 30 years playing TT and MW games and I loved them all. This one has some problems, but to much power is not one of them! If destroying 12 Mechs on TT took 2 minutes and MW:O takes 5-7 we are taking plenty of time to play a match.

it's not always 5-7 mins it's shorter on a steamroll or a cap race which we know frustrates many people and gives the gameplay a bad impression. the reason weapon balance took off was that mechs were dying too fast, lurm pocolypse, unhitable lights, streak cat etc. that's what weapon balanced was aimed at to give everyone a right of retaliation a more forgiving experience in general no matter what was fielded. saddly as you say the game's dynamics at the core doesn't allow for too much of this except in perhaps a skill basis. but equipment and numbers are better that's why the game's outcomes and the cycle of metas hasn't really changed and it never will. punishing games aren't popular games but pgi are dumbing it down for noobs instead of seperating good players from badplayers. still i think one of the biggest problems for all these arguments which simply makes us all hate each other and make the forum terrible is due to what i'm about to discuss next...

Sandpit, on 11 November 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

well thank you for the compliment sir but two caveats

• If I can do it anyone can
  
• Do you REALLY believe I'm the ONLY person in the ENTIRE game that uses energy builds effectively?

well i havn't heard of anyother laser boat pilots saying how usable they are, do you use them against many poptarts with dakka blazing?

anyways a more serious question and just a test of why our POV differ so greatly. do you really think anyone can do well in general?

i'm an aussie with 250-350 ping using a laptop an aspire V3-571G. it has core 15-2450M and a gt 630M card so i always use lowest graphics. the result is struggle to get scraping shots to register so my best oppotunities to lay on damage is to shoot at stuff that's big and still and when i'm in a big and slow mech that's means i'm exposed to a lot of return fire. so my damage output is dependant on over exposure or gambling with really bad hit reg. i can't fight or use mechs that run over the 100-120 kph, the framerates are just to choppy.

now under what conditions are you using your laser boat? because i think people who are calling foul on how bad lasers are and or how op are people who are in my boat, finding something like a third of the damage they should be making is being denied by the system. i know plenty of occasions where you shoot something still looking alive to you, then blows up and someone else is accredited with the kill. because the delay can be so bad that you didn't see the blow before was actually a killing one. my 91% accuracy has dropped to 88% i don't think i'm shooting anyworse than i was?

lag and latency i think is the true cause for most of the weapon balance discussions, it's making some look like fools and others look like stuck up elites. i think that's why lasers are looking terribad and GH exasperated the problem, they're the only hitsacn weapons which in the past meant you could overcome latency to score damage on fast lights. but the lag these days seems more random, lasers aren't registering as much damage as they used to, i feel frontloading weapons are still finding enough damage on targets tpo warrent them which is why lasers are underscrutiny and not ppcs.

bad hit detection- netcoding has been going on for over a year now, so sad.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 11 November 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[YueFei]

Sandpit, on 11 November 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

well thank you for the compliment sir but two caveats

• If I can do it anyone can
  
• Do you REALLY believe I'm the ONLY person in the ENTIRE game that uses energy builds effectively?

I think the problem is people let themselves get brawled by someone with AC's, or put under a sustained barrage, where the AC's have the advantage in heat efficiency, and complain when they lose.

They don't bother taking advantage of the fact that energy weapons are relatively light-weight, allowing you to put a monster engine and move faster, and use that superior speed to dictate the fight: shoot, use up your heat bar, and scoot off to cool down while denying the other guy a shot.

Things don't always go according to my plans, too, and sometimes someone gets the drop on me and I can't find cover quickly. But if that happens, it's my mistake.

That might be what's truly so horribly wrong with most of the Awesomes. The engine limits mean they are slow, on top of not being able to put more heat sinks into the engine, and their profile and low-slung guns means they must expose more of themselves to shoot. So it takes them longer to step out of cover to bring guns to bear, and longer still to pull back into cover. The Stalker is an energy / missile boat, and a lot of people use them as all-energy boats, but it can work because the high mounts let you peek and shoot more effectively.

[KinLuu]

Sandpit, on 11 November 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

well thank you for the compliment sir but two caveats

• If I can do it anyone can
  
• Do you REALLY believe I'm the ONLY person in the ENTIRE game that uses energy builds effectively?

I believe your definition of effectiveness differs from mine.

Khobai, on 11 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

If you say so. Its still a 15-20 point alpha. Even what most people consider the best build in the game only does a 30 point alpha. So their alpha is hardly lousy. And they have the best sustained dps in the game. Ballistic heavies are very strong, especially the Jager with those high up guns that let it fire over obstacles. They can also move ~80kph.

Maybe I am biased by my disdain for the CTFs low slung arm hardpoints. The Jaeger is a fine DPS mech indeed, but even on the Jaeger, I prefer the 2x AC/5 2x PPC build, esp. on the Firebrand.

Edited by KinLuu, 11 November 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

This one has some problems, but to much power is not one of them! If destroying 12 Mechs on TT took 2 minutes and MW:O takes 5-7 we are taking plenty of time to play a match.

MWO has way more early game positioning/maneuvering than TT which is where most of the extra time is consumed. The actual combat in MWO is much shorter because damage is massively increased by precise aiming/convergence. It takes at least 8 rounds of shooting for a Jagermech doing ~30 damage per round to kill an Atlas in TT, but in MWO a Jagermech can core an Atlas in 15 seconds. Combat is way shorter and far more brutal in MWO, and thats not a good thing.

Quote

Maybe I am biased by my disdain for the CTFs low slung arm hardpoints. The Jaeger is a fine DPS mech indeed, but even on the Jaeger, I prefer the 2x AC/5 2x PPC build, esp. on the Firebrand.

Of course. x2 AC/5 and x2 PPC is better than anything else right now. But plenty of people run just ballistics, and due to the abundance of assaults on the field, its very easy to score high damage with pure ballistic builds.

Edited by Khobai, 12 November 2013 - 12:27 AM.

[xengk]

Galenit, on 11 November 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

Bring more weapons to over 1000m?
This woud make all missiles obsolente and wont be that much fun on the small maps ...

But 2x 2x 1x will make the ranges consistence:

Longranges around 1000m:
ERPPC / Gauss for pinpoint sniping
ERLL / AC2 for long range dot
LRMS for hitting Hills

Midranges (300-800m):
Most of the ACs and Lasers, LRMs for all types of damage.

Closeranges (0-300m):
AC20 for pinpoint damage
SRM for spread damage
Lasers/MG/Flamer for Dot

This way more weapons come to bear when the fighingline comes closer.

With your 3x energy/ballistic we all would just sit on the hill and snipe for 15 minutes ...

2x 2x max range will not change anything, ballistic will still be preferred over energy weapon due to pinpoint damage and heat efficiency.
Having energy at 3x let player start engagement early but dealing "paper cut" damage, the longer distance also give the attacker more time to cool off between shots. Fights will start earlier and less time spend on matching in silence from spawn point to brawl point.

If both teams decide to spend 15 minutes doing 1 point spread out damage to each other, something is really wrong with the pilots. Worst would be those who dies to that damage.

However, players will be players and want to win with taking 0 damage, so I see your concern too. It will take some time for the idea to sink in, concept like don't stand in a LRM rain and light mech should not stop moving.

[Navy Sixes]

The Justicar, on 06 November 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

We're asking for balance across weapons in this game.

Really? And you don't think there's any downside to running enough AC 2/5s to make them worthwhile? Clearly you've never built and run an AC mech yourself. You should give it a try; it'll change your mind.

[Thorqemada]

YueFei, on 11 November 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

They don't bother taking advantage of the fact that energy weapons are relatively light-weight, allowing you to put a monster engine and move faster, and use that superior speed to dictate the fight: shoot, use up your heat bar, and scoot off to cool down while denying the other guy a shot.

Anything Medium or Bigger has no Advantage from using Speed bcs Size - almost impossible to miss them.
And when you stick your nose out of cover it gets shot 1/10 of a second later...

The fastest Light, the Locust - i have witnessed as Spectator a match at Alpine where an enemy AC2 Mech shot a Locust from long range and despite it moving most erratically not a single round missed.
Every half a second the "Flowers of Impact" blossomed...til it was dead.

Speed is only good if the Lagshield works...and in Pugs to overcome the coordination issues.

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 November 2013 - 03:25 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

GalaxyBluestar, on 11 November 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

it's not always 5-7 mins it's shorter on a steamroll or a cap race which we know frustrates many people and gives the gameplay a bad impression. the reason weapon balance took off was that mechs were dying too fast, lurm pocolypse, unhitable lights, streak cat etc. that's what weapon balanced was aimed at to give everyone a right of retaliation a more forgiving experience in general no matter what was fielded. saddly as you say the game's dynamics at the core doesn't allow for too much of this except in perhaps a skill basis. but equipment and numbers are better that's why the game's outcomes and the cycle of metas hasn't really changed and it never will. punishing games aren't popular games but pgi are dumbing it down for noobs instead of seperating good players from badplayers. still i think one of the biggest problems for all these arguments which simply makes us all hate each other and make the forum terrible is due to what i'm about to discuss next...

The problem isn't the Mechs or the Weapons it's the players. I played for months in Mechs that was by no means Min/Max, never Boating (I did have an Atlas built like an Archer), I do however have a Jager 40 cause I love to crush my opponents, but I do have streaks of good play and streaks of games I should not have hit launch! You cannot easily fix bad players and it is a disservice to dumb down the game/any game to much.

Quote

i'm an aussie with 250-350 ping using a laptop an aspire V3-571G. it has core 15-2450M and a gt 630M card so i always use lowest graphics. the result is struggle to get scraping shots to register so my best oppotunities to lay on damage is to shoot at stuff that's big and still and when i'm in a big and slow mech that's means i'm exposed to a lot of return fire. so my damage output is dependant on over exposure or gambling with really bad hit reg. i can't fight or use mechs that run over the 100-120 kph, the framerates are just to choppy.

I started out in your situation. Low grade laptop, I remember the forlorn feeling of a Jenner charging my Archer(Atlas).

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 November 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[DaZur]

My 8 or so rounds last night brought upon me a moment of clarity, birthing an epiphany.

As I hulled down behind cover with my Gaussed -3D, setting my sites on at least 4 to 6 stationary mechs and proceeded to plink and plunk them mercilessly... it dawned on me...

... Over the course of the last month or so I've witnessed a higher % of mech pilots whose tactical maneuvering begins with walking to spot "A" and ends with adjusting their facing as necessary to bring their sites on their targets.

What was their response under fire? They at best waddled behind cover to eventually re-emerge and start the process over again or at worst spun in a circle trying to figure out where the shots were coming from.

How is this relevant to this AC discussion?

- My sides Dakka'jages noticed these oblivious mech pilots as well... Suffice to say, those 4 to 6 mechs did not last long between the dakka onslaught and my Gauss plinks and plunks.

- Later, the tables were turned... Having hulled down again in a different match, I faced 3 to 4 Dakka'mechs who had me pinned down something fierce... Every time I poked my shoulder out, I was met with a deluge of ballistic rain. Thankfully, my -3D is kitted with a 340XL so I was able to make a run for better positioning and even though they raked me as I scooted... the 5s & 2s ultimately did only marginal damage that was well distributed as I was hot and moving...

Point being... If you stand around playing "turret" or you fail to maneuver with any conviction... You are making yourself a "dakka'victim"...

[Sandpit]

GalaxyBluestar, on 11 November 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

it's not always 5-7 mins it's shorter on a steamroll or a cap race which we know frustrates many people and gives the gameplay a bad impression. the reason weapon balance took off was that mechs were dying too fast, lurm pocolypse, unhitable lights, streak cat etc. that's what weapon balanced was aimed at to give everyone a right of retaliation a more forgiving experience in general no matter what was fielded. saddly as you say the game's dynamics at the core doesn't allow for too much of this except in perhaps a skill basis. but equipment and numbers are better that's why the game's outcomes and the cycle of metas hasn't really changed and it never will. punishing games aren't popular games but pgi are dumbing it down for noobs instead of seperating good players from badplayers. still i think one of the biggest problems for all these arguments which simply makes us all hate each other and make the forum terrible is due to what i'm about to discuss next...



well i havn't heard of anyother laser boat pilots saying how usable they are, do you use them against many poptarts with dakka blazing?

anyways a more serious question and just a test of why our POV differ so greatly. do you really think anyone can do well in general?

i'm an aussie with 250-350 ping using a laptop an aspire V3-571G. it has core 15-2450M and a gt 630M card so i always use lowest graphics. the result is struggle to get scraping shots to register so my best oppotunities to lay on damage is to shoot at stuff that's big and still and when i'm in a big and slow mech that's means i'm exposed to a lot of return fire. so my damage output is dependant on over exposure or gambling with really bad hit reg. i can't fight or use mechs that run over the 100-120 kph, the framerates are just to choppy.

now under what conditions are you using your laser boat? because i think people who are calling foul on how bad lasers are and or how op are people who are in my boat, finding something like a third of the damage they should be making is being denied by the system. i know plenty of occasions where you shoot something still looking alive to you, then blows up and someone else is accredited with the kill. because the delay can be so bad that you didn't see the blow before was actually a killing one. my 91% accuracy has dropped to 88% i don't think i'm shooting anyworse than i was?

lag and latency i think is the true cause for most of the weapon balance discussions, it's making some look like fools and others look like stuck up elites. i think that's why lasers are looking terribad and GH exasperated the problem, they're the only hitsacn weapons which in the past meant you could overcome latency to score damage on fast lights. but the lag these days seems more random, lasers aren't registering as much damage as they used to, i feel frontloading weapons are still finding enough damage on targets tpo warrent them which is why lasers are underscrutiny and not ppcs.

bad hit detection- netcoding has been going on for over a year now, so sad.

Now THIS is a completely different animal. Lag and latency (along with hit detection issues) don't play into the whole mechanics of the game even though tye have a direct impact on it. I can understand why you wouldn't use them due to physical limitations when it comes to latency and ping. That's a completely separate issue that, unfortunately because I tend to like the aussie players on TS, PGI really can't balance game play and mechanics around. Most of the people that I've seen calling them useless aren't in that boat though. They are either trying to get lasers buffed because they don't like where they are now or just want ACs nerfed because they get owned by them, both of which are more issues of player skill as opposed to poor server limitations like what you're facing.

You can't have rules without exceptions and without exceptions there would be no need for rules. My entire point is that AC's are not the end all be all and energy builds are not completely useless. Statements like "Nobody uses lasers" or "Lasers are completely useless now" or "There's no trade-off" are just not true. They may not be "easy" to use but they're still quite effective if you use them properly.

[The Justicar]

Tycho von Gagern, on 12 November 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

Really? And you don't think there's any downside to running enough AC 2/5s to make them worthwhile? Clearly you've never built and run an AC mech yourself. You should give it a try; it'll change your mind.

Been playing since early closed beta, trust me, I've played everything in this game.

[Navy Sixes]

The Justicar, on 12 November 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

Been playing since early closed beta, trust me, I've played everything in this game.

Ok, so specifically, what builds are giving you problems? Could you share an AC2/5 build that you can't beat?

[Mad Strike]

AC OP ?? LASERS BAD??.....mmmm can't see that. Playing with balanced loadouts (Energy + balistic + missiles) and still having fun.