39 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

The UAV module bonuses are in, but UAV seems more used as an "after-the-fact-targeting-maintainer" - e.g once you've located the majority of the enemy group, you launch an UAV to keep them visible to your team and allow your team to push or rain LRM hell or something like that.

So, anyway, what can we grant scouts as a benefit? Here are my ideas, hopefully you more or improvements on existing ideas

Love XP at First Sight
You are the first to see and target an enemy mech.

Shadow
You are the first to maintain a specific target for at least 10 seconds without being targeted or hit by any enemies.

Forward Observer
The regular spotting reward gets a bonus if the triggering shooter is at least 500m away from you.

Mission Objective
You are the first mech to reach a capture point under control of the enemy (works for the base in Assault and for all bases in Conquests, once they have been taken over)

[Captain Stiffy]

Scouting has rewards. You can get phat paid.

[Mycrus]

Scouting is its own reward... Like diet and exercise...

[stjobe]

What's the role of a scout? In its pure form, it's to find and keep tabs on the enemy whereabouts, so in addition to the suggested rewards, I'd like to add these:

Where'd he go? There he is!
Re-targeting of an enemy that has been non-observed (not in LoS of any team-mate) for 30-60 seconds.

Gotta catch 'em all!
Targeted each and every enemy 'mech at least once.

If we include FO duties (a.k.a. spotting) in the Scout role and not just finding and keeping tabs on the enemy, these may be of interest:

You wouldn't have even seen that without me
Split the damage/kill rewards 50/50 with the firing 'mech when LRMs are fired indirectly and the scout has had the target targeted/TAGged/Narc'd from firing to impact.

Shift Right Four-Zero. Fire!
Re-acquiring a target lock for LRM indirect fire.

It's important to note that these should be small CB/XP rewards, but not so small as to be useless; someone devoting all their time to scouting/spotting should average the same reward as someone devoting all their time to fighting.

[Feetwet]

I would like to see the TAG laser stay invisible unless I am firing weapons or in night vision. Who cares if I have ECM, reached a spot undetected, and then found the enemy if I have a HUGE laser pointer back to my position.

Not reward related but needed for scouting...a way to mark the map with enemy position and count quickly. Maybe a snapshot function that has a cooldown like the weapons that will show every enemy in your visual cone on the map for a second. You can't use this for targeting but for info warfare.

[Rhent]

Its pretty easy, its called Scout specific modules only usable for lights. Lets say there was an "Enhanced TAG" module for lights only that took TAG to 1,000M and gave a 15% damage bonus over existing TAG AND that 15% bonus damage went only to the light mech for damage, then there would be more of a benefit to playing lights. Basically they could TAG farther, be harder to target for counter TAG fire and the damage bonus they generate would not take away damage from the LRM boats themselves.

Edited by Rhent, 06 November 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[mike29tw]

MustrumRidcully and stjobe, I like that you're trying to improve scouting, but the direction you're taking almost look like a list of challenges/achievements...... it looks arcady, tbh. I'd prefer to come up with some tools, either modules or weapons, designed specifically for scouting.

Feetwet, on 06 November 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

I would like to see the TAG laser stay invisible unless I am firing weapons or in night vision. Who cares if I have ECM, reached a spot undetected, and then found the enemy if I have a HUGE laser pointer back to my position.

Not reward related but needed for scouting...a way to mark the map with enemy position and count quickly. Maybe a snapshot function that has a cooldown like the weapons that will show every enemy in your visual cone on the map for a second. You can't use this for targeting but for info warfare.

Rhent, on 06 November 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Its pretty easy, its called Scout specific modules only usable for lights. Lets say there was an "Enhanced TAG" module for lights only that took TAG to 1,000M and gave a 15% damage bonus over existing TAG AND that 15% bonus damage went only to the light mech for damage, then there would be more of a benefit to playing lights. Basically they could TAG farther, be harder to target for counter TAG fire and the damage bonus they generate would not take away damage from the LRM boats themselves.

There we go. Adv. TAG in the module slot, invisible TAG that doesn't require a laser hardpoint.

Also I had this idea for a while, a module(or make it a BAP feature) that shares both your current target and your last target on C3 network, given that you still have LoS to your last target.

Here's another one, a module(or an extra piece of equipment) that marks the last known position of your target when you lose LoS on all teammates' HuD and map.

Edited by mike29tw, 06 November 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[Mechteric]

MustrumRidcully, on 06 November 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

Mission Objective
You are the first mech to reach a capture point under control of the enemy (works for the base in Assault and for all bases in Conquests, once they have been taken over)

Perhaps good for Conquest, but not for Assault. Really don't need to encourage people to just be the first to cap, there's more to it than just being first like making sure the enemy isn't too close to defend and making sure your team is ready to push. Not that pugs always care about that, but I do.

[Almond Brown]

Super silly question(s)?

How do you direct an "invisible" beam to a target 750m out?

Is it only invisible or detectable to the enemy unless they are in NV/IF modes?

Does the "target" still display the "TAGGED" icon over them when targeted?

[stjobe]

mike29tw, on 06 November 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

MustrumRidcully and stjobe, I like that you're trying to improve scouting, but the direction you're taking almost look like a list of challenges/achievements...... it looks arcady, tbh. I'd prefer to come up with some tools, either modules or weapons, designed specifically for scouting.

The thing is that scouting/spotting currently do not pay, that's what we're trying to change. I'd love some modules/equipment/pilot skills that were scout/spotter specific, but that's not enough - we need to be able to earn CB/XP by scouting/spotting as well.

The "arcady" names were just for fun; call them something else if you want.

[RandomLurker]

TAG/NARC bonus - Increase by 4x, or scale to damage done by allies while TAGged

Add Cbill component to cap rewards (also lock caps for first 3 mins on Assault matches)

Spotter Bonus: Scale to damage done by allies using your target data.

EWAR Bonus: Reward for countering an enemy ECM (PPC's not included)

BAP Change: Allow mech equipped with BAP to target lock an enemy protected by ECM (but not ECM carrier). This will allow scouts to have more effect on the battle, and get more of the improved spotting bonus.

[Feetwet]

Almond Brown, on 06 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Super silly question(s)?

How do you direct an "invisible" beam to a target 750m out?

Is it only invisible or detectable to the enemy unless they are in NV/IF modes?

Does the "target" still display the "TAGGED" icon over them when targeted?

The beam would be centered on your arm reticle. The mech would show up as TAGGED (to just your team or everyone?). It would be detectable via NV or for balance purposes when my mech fires (you can see a laser in smoke kinda thing).

A module slot for an invisible tag that could be improved to 1000 yds (5000gxp) and again to invisible (15000gxp) (invisible follows above rules).

ideas?

[Deathlike]

RandomLurker, on 06 November 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

EWAR Bonus: Reward for countering an enemy ECM (PPC's not included)

We were supposed to have an ECM one soon... but I'm not even sure that has an ETA yet. It's just for mechs that have ECM to actually USE the counter function as intended, instead of just leaving it on mindlessly... doing nothing for the teammates that need to spot the enemy ECM mech.

MustrumRidcully, on 06 November 2013 - 03:01 AM, said:

The UAV module bonuses are in, but UAV seems more used as an "after-the-fact-targeting-maintainer" - e.g once you've located the majority of the enemy group, you launch an UAV to keep them visible to your team and allow your team to push or rain LRM hell or something like that.

So, anyway, what can we grant scouts as a benefit? Here are my ideas, hopefully you more or improvements on existing ideas

Love XP at First Sight
You are the first to see and target an enemy mech.

This is the only bonus I care about.

There should be another one that spotting/chasing an enemy mech having not seen it for :30 seconds or something like that. It would be most useful for chasing stragglers.

[Aym]

I'd love to hear why "Love at first sight" isn't in the game currently. And I'm fine with a "Why didn't we think of that?" Response, but if there's any concerns/criticisms from PGI on it, I'd love to hear them.

[Roadkill]

I think XP at First Sight is a bad idea... that just encourages farmers to dash forward as fast as possible, rapidly (and uselessly) cycle through targeting all of the enemies, and then die.

I'm not really in favor of any "firsts" rewards for that reason.

Things similar to the current spotting rewards for LRMs are what we should be looking for. They're teamwork based and actually reward the scout for helping the team.

Maybe a reward for preventing the enemy from capping? Awarded any time you stand in your own square and by doing so prevent an enemy Mech from progressing their cap? Could be earned by multiple friendlies at the same time.

[Deathlike]

Roadkill, on 06 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I think XP at First Sight is a bad idea... that just encourages farmers to dash forward as fast as possible, rapidly (and uselessly) cycle through targeting all of the enemies, and then die.

Well, you'd have to consider that ECM would affect this, so it might incentivize the use of TAG. You're not going to get the most rewards from this system in the first place as right now combat dictates all the rewards in this game. Dying from scouting happens, but won't be rewarded much anyways. At least it would benefit newbies that need to learn how to scout in a light mech... which is what they generally DON'T do in PUG matches.

Roadkill, on 06 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Maybe a reward for preventing the enemy from capping? Awarded any time you stand in your own square and by doing so prevent an enemy Mech from progressing their cap? Could be earned by multiple friendlies at the same time.

I agree with that, as the reward for stopping the cap is non-existent and defensive kills only occur when THE CAPPER IS DEAD... and most of the time it is done minutes later when the cap defender is dead.

That lack of a bonus annoys me to no end.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 November 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Aym]

Back in closed beta Paul weighed in against cap-defense when I suggested it because it was exploitable by farmers, or campers, or some such.

[Deathlike]

Aym, on 06 November 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Back in closed beta Paul weighed in against cap-defense when I suggested it because it was exploitable by farmers, or campers, or some such.

Of course Paul sees no meaning... he probably doesn't run cap defense in his personal 19 SHS K2.

How the hell would you farm when you intentionally have to have the enemy capping the base (which is not a recoverable resource) and usually responding with other Light mechs that die a blazing fireball when they have literally no other choice than to circle the tiny cap radius while the cappers have full control over the firing zone?

Edited by Deathlike, 06 November 2013 - 10:24 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Roadkill, on 06 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I think XP at First Sight is a bad idea... that just encourages farmers to dash forward as fast as possible, rapidly (and uselessly) cycle through targeting all of the enemies, and then die.

Like the Assist bonus encourages everyone to spread their damage across all tarets and then die in the middle of enemy fire?

Maybe.

But it depends a lot on how high the reward is, and what other rewards you can all get for actually helping.

Ultimately, I think a much larger fraction of the rewards should come from simply winning. It doesn't matter if the team did it because they scouted, or capped, or focus fired, they obviously did more right than the enemy. Give everyone +25 % bonus to all other rewards when you win. Now just stupidly going out and catching spots or assists isn't enough - you want your team to win, because that makes everything you did make 25 % more worth.

[Jman5]

My dream feature is to have a waypoint system in place that effectively rewards mechs for scouting the map. Each path will have multiple nav points that reward you more and more as you travel down the path. So on Frozen City, Jenner's Alley might have 3 navpoints like this:



As you scout further down the path, the rewards increase. So while an assault might be able to hit the first navpoint without much trouble, he can't easily travel down an entire pathway without fully committing to that avenue of approach. A light on the other hand can quickly walk down one path, and then the another, and then another in order to scout the map effectively.