27 replies to this topic

[Kobura]

Played a few games today on various mechs. First time in months. I was really looking forward to something that wasn't the ghost-heat riddled, still-PPC-addled, poweralpha ****.

I didn't get it. AC5 everywhere, PPC everywhere, Gauss only boated and used as primary/only long range weapon (having tried it, you accomplished your goal of making it impossible to pair with anything else, requires a ton of attention [this is not critique, thank you genuinely])

One of my friends got headchopped by an AC5/PPC Victor as the first shot of a Terra game. Ok... happens

I got powercored by exposing myself for about six seconds in an Atlas. Ok... happens

I lost a leg in one shot in a Spider. Ok... happens

Was fun had? Not really.

Still poweralpha scrap. Sorry. I almost regret breaking my hunger strike of MWO for this.

[Durant Carlyle]

You do realize that any game that has customization will boil down to people min-maxing to get the most kills for the least effort, right?

It's human nature. If you expect different, you will be disappointed every time.

[Rovertoo]

Durant Carlyle, on 06 November 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

You do realize that any game that has customization will boil down to people min-maxing to get the most kills for the least effort, right?

It's human nature. If you expect different, you will be disappointed every time.

See, that's a good thing. It's customization, it's what makes the game so amazingly fun!

What I do have an issue with, though, is as the poster said. Mechs are dying too fast. I would really love for a mech to be able to take a beating from four or five mechs and survive for several minute before going down in a blaze of glory.

[LastPaladin]

Rovertoo, on 06 November 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Mechs are dying too fast. I would really love for a mech to be able to take a beating from four or five mechs and survive for several minute before going down in a blaze of glory.

So you want it to take an hour to finish a single battle, and for everyone to always stay in a big clump, because that's the only way they have a hope of killing anything?

[Kobura]

Rovertoo, on 06 November 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

See, that's a good thing. It's customization, it's what makes the game so amazingly fun!

What I do have an issue with, though, is as the poster said. Mechs are dying too fast. I would really love for a mech to be able to take a beating from four or five mechs and survive for several minute before going down in a blaze of glory.

Not several minutes, but more than getting alpha'd by five mechs once. Several times some of our people only saw combat for like... ten, fifteen seconds. They're absolutely top-notch too, pros at spreading damage.

But when it comes to you in an infinitely small single package, there's no spreading to be done. That's not particularly fun. "Who can knife-chop the hardest in one swipe" contest... I thought I left that behind a few months ago.

Like I said. Just disappointed again. Seeya in another six months, if it's still around.

[Ari Dian]

Kobura, on 06 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Played a few games today on various mechs. First time in months. I was really looking forward to something that wasn't the ghost-heat riddled, still-PPC-addled, poweralpha ****.

I didn't get it. AC5 everywhere, PPC everywhere, Gauss only boated and used as primary/only long range weapon (having tried it, you accomplished your goal of making it impossible to pair with anything else, requires a ton of attention [this is not critique, thank you genuinely])

I only see a colorfull mix of weapons of all kind. From Laser to AC over LRMs or SRMs, Gauss, PPC and even more MGs.
They come in single to mixed weapons.
Right now i would say the weapons at at least not this unbalanced. Only the ballistics seem to be a bit better than all other. Even noticeable by this many Jaegermechs around (dual AC20, tripple AC5, dual AC10, ...).

But on the other hand, maybe my Elo is this average and yours is so high/low that the meta become total different.

Kobura, on 06 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

One of my friends got headchopped by an AC5/PPC Victor as the first shot of a Terra game. Ok... happens

Good hint. Put armor on the head. The total armor on any mech is around 36 points. Not even a dual gauss can headchop someone with a single hit. Once i hit a Battlemaster with dual AC20 in the head. Yes, it can happen. but it is really rare. And if a Victor with AC5+PPC can headchop you, you eighter had no armor on the head, he was using a heatshot cheat, or it was just pure luck to hit the head 3 times with both weapons.

Kobura, on 06 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I got powercored by exposing myself for about six seconds in an Atlas. Ok... happens

Depend how many were focusing you. If you went heroic out and exposed yourself to 12 mechs, its a wonder you stood 6 sec. But no single mech can core an atlas in 6 sec. Unless you just stood still and let it happen.

Kobura, on 06 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I lost a leg in one shot in a Spider. Ok... happens

Was fun had? Not really.

Especially spider is a bad example, because this mech is so damm hard to hit. Most time i even hit it, the damage is not registered.
But a Spider has 42 points max armor in the legs. Now tell me again what kind of mech could one shot you. Unless you jump around and damage your own legs like mad and if you moved around (not standing still and watching), there is nothing that can really one shot you.
Combined with the bad hit detection of the spider, it take a bit longer to rip off a leg.
Again, unless your Elo is so damm high that you were playing in a league you dont fit anymore because of your break.

Kobura, on 06 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Still poweralpha scrap. Sorry. I almost regret breaking my hunger strike of MWO for this.

Not really true. AC5 are not really poweralphas. And if you really saw only AC5 everywhere, it does not fit with your statement that all are using poweralphas.

But it is like someone already said. Its the human nature.
A high alpha means you only have to expose yourself for a short time to do damage. It help yourself to stay alive, and take down your enemies faster. This is the instinct of survival. Take out your enemy as fast as possible with the least damage to yourself.
But i find the weapons really well mixed right now. At least in my matches.

[NuclearPanda]

Ari Dian, on 07 November 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

I only see a colorfull mix of weapons of all kind. From Laser to AC over LRMs or SRMs, Gauss, PPC and even more MGs.
They come in single to mixed weapons.
Right now i would say the weapons at at least not this unbalanced. Only the ballistics seem to be a bit better than all other. Even noticeable by this many Jaegermechs around (dual AC20, tripple AC5, dual AC10, ...).

But on the other hand, maybe my Elo is this average and yours is so high/low that the meta become total different.



Good hint. Put armor on the head. The total armor on any mech is around 36 points. Not even a dual gauss can headchop someone with a single hit. Once i hit a Battlemaster with dual AC20 in the head. Yes, it can happen. but it is really rare. And if a Victor with AC5+PPC can headchop you, you eighter had no armor on the head, he was using a heatshot cheat, or it was just pure luck to hit the head 3 times with both weapons.



Depend how many were focusing you. If you went heroic out and exposed yourself to 12 mechs, its a wonder you stood 6 sec. But no single mech can core an atlas in 6 sec. Unless you just stood still and let it happen.



Especially spider is a bad example, because this mech is so damm hard to hit. Most time i even hit it, the damage is not registered.
But a Spider has 42 points max armor in the legs. Now tell me again what kind of mech could one shot you. Unless you jump around and damage your own legs like mad and if you moved around (not standing still and watching), there is nothing that can really one shot you.
Combined with the bad hit detection of the spider, it take a bit longer to rip off a leg.
Again, unless your Elo is so damm high that you were playing in a league you dont fit anymore because of your break.



Not really true. AC5 are not really poweralphas. And if you really saw only AC5 everywhere, it does not fit with your statement that all are using poweralphas.

But it is like someone already said. Its the human nature.
A high alpha means you only have to expose yourself for a short time to do damage. It help yourself to stay alive, and take down your enemies faster. This is the instinct of survival. Take out your enemy as fast as possible with the least damage to yourself.
But i find the weapons really well mixed right now. At least in my matches.

I find the weapons to be pretty mixed as well and generally don't have too many issues right now. My biggest complaints at the moment are:

1) SRMs are horribly broken. They need much better hit detection. Right now they're practically useless.
2) ERPPCs generate way too much heat. 15 is too damn high! *insert obvious meme here* I'd say 12 or 13 would be much better.
3) Ghost heat on AC2s needs to be addressed, like now.

[Modo44]

The 2xUAC5+2xPPC mix of weapons on the Carrylander (733C) especially is super random. Every friggin' time.

Edited by Modo44, 07 November 2013 - 06:14 AM.

[Kunae]

12v12 has been a bane on pug matches. Too much concentrated fire. 12v12 should be an option, not the norm.

It's fine for preset matches, but even then, there shouldn't be a requirement to bring 12... Allegedly this functionality will be in with CW... whenever that gets in, if at all.

[Durant Carlyle]

lol

More people in a match is not a bad thing. I regularly see one line of 'Mechs facing off against another line, almost like the Civil War in America way back when. They're all just taking pot shots against random targets that they can see. Eventually, one side or the other will get bored and a group of them will go hunting.

And you're LUCKY if you get concentrated fire -- that kind of coordination isn't the norm unless some lone sap runs headlong into your group.

12v12 should definitely stay the norm, as there's absolutely no reason to not do it that way. Remember, ALL matches (even PUGs) will matter in CW. Uneven team numbers should only be in rare special missions/contracts, maybe as the final few battles for a planet or something -- or be reserved for when ISvsClan comes along.

[Josef Koba]

I can't say that I share the OP's experiences. At all. I'm sorry he's disappointed, but I'm having a blast. See him in six months, maybe. Or whatever. Sorry to see him go.

The game's always been fun for me, even with the changes over time that have made me adapt my tactics and loadout. For instance, the AC40 nerf. I was a big fan of my dual 20 Jager. They nerfed that. So now I use an LB-10X and an AC20 and still get lots and lots of kills. They added ghost heat to lasers and the like. I still use my 4 LLas Stalker, in the exact same way (chain fire) and do just fine. I don't really notice any uber-AC5 use or massive amounts of PPCs. I don't know. It seems that things are pretty balanced.

NuclearPanda, on 07 November 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

1) SRMs are horribly broken. They need much better hit detection. Right now they're practically useless.

Based on my experience, SRMs are pretty effective, at least for me. I'd certainly not call them useless even if there are hit detection issues, and I'm not saying that there isn't. All I can say is that I seem to do a fair amount of damage with my brawlers that use SRMs. Now, if they want to fix these issues and make them better, that's fine with me.

[Kunae]

Durant Carlyle, on 07 November 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

lol

More people in a match is not a bad thing. I regularly see one line of 'Mechs facing off against another line, almost like the Civil War in America way back when. They're all just taking pot shots against random targets that they can see. Eventually, one side or the other will get bored and a group of them will go hunting.

And you're LUCKY if you get concentrated fire -- that kind of coordination isn't the norm unless some lone sap runs headlong into your group.

12v12 should definitely stay the norm, as there's absolutely no reason to not do it that way. Remember, ALL matches (even PUGs) will matter in CW. Uneven team numbers should only be in rare special missions/contracts, maybe as the final few battles for a planet or something -- or be reserved for when ISvsClan comes along.

No, my point is that it is much less forgiving of mistakes. 8v8, you could make a mistake and not immediately die from it. 12v12, you tend to get vaporized.

[Drakenn]

Kobura, on 06 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Played a few games today on various mechs. First time in months. I was really looking forward to something that wasn't the ghost-heat riddled, still-PPC-addled, poweralpha ****.

I didn't get it. AC5 everywhere, PPC everywhere, Gauss only boated and used as primary/only long range weapon (having tried it, you accomplished your goal of making it impossible to pair with anything else, requires a ton of attention [this is not critique, thank you genuinely])

One of my friends got headchopped by an AC5/PPC Victor as the first shot of a Terra game. Ok... happens

I got powercored by exposing myself for about six seconds in an Atlas. Ok... happens

I lost a leg in one shot in a Spider. Ok... happens

Was fun had? Not really.

Still poweralpha scrap. Sorry. I almost regret breaking my hunger strike of MWO for this.

Sounds like someone is unhappy because they can't make effective builds, to me : / I don't think AC/5 or PPC are overpowered right now. If you and your friend are getting picked off, maybe you need to re-think your strategy a bit when it comes to engaging.

[JeffGoldblum]

NuclearPanda, on 07 November 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

I find the weapons to be pretty mixed as well and generally don't have too many issues right now. My biggest complaints at the moment are:

1) SRMs are horribly broken. They need much better hit detection. Right now they're practically useless.
2) ERPPCs generate way too much heat. 15 is too damn high! *insert obvious meme here* I'd say 12 or 13 would be much better.
3) Ghost heat on AC2s needs to be addressed, like now.

SRM's are fine, just learn to lead your targets. Everything else I agree with.

[ShinVector]

JeffGoldblum, on 07 November 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

SRM's are fine, just learn to lead your targets. Everything else I agree with.

LOL... Maybe at <50ms ping or something...

But then again... PGI already admitted there is a problem with SRM hit detection and having problems fixing it..
What are you smoking man ?

[Kmieciu]

Modo44, on 07 November 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

The 2xUAC5+2xPPC mix of weapons on the Carrylander (733C) especially is super random. Every friggin' time.

I prefer the AC20+2xPPC combo using standard engine, since 90% of the PUG games come down to ridge humping at 300 meter range. Jump - 40 points of alpha - torso twist - land.

JeffGoldblum, on 07 November 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

SRM's are fine, just learn to lead your targets. Everything else I agree with.

You've been playing MWO since July 2013. You haven't seen what SRM could do during closed beta.
Here. Have a look:

Edited by Kmieciu, 08 November 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[Alex Warden]

i am just a little annoyed by many LRM´s from time to time, otherwise i think all weapons are used in a more or less balanced way. still needs some improvement, but it´s better than a while back. sure, you have a lot of people here who won´t think enough about their mechs and just go for the "best", which we all know doesn´t really exist, but you also have lot´s of people who use not so specialized builds and even lot´s of people who run weird, wildly mixed up weaponry.

but it´s nature of men also, that you only realize what terrorizes you -personally- the most for me it´s LRM, as i said because they are just annoying me

[ShinVector]

Alex Warden, on 08 November 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

i am just a little annoyed by many LRM´s from time to time, otherwise i think all weapons are used in a more or less balanced way. still needs some improvement, but it´s better than a while back. sure, you have a lot of people here who won´t think enough about their mechs and just go for the "best", which we all know doesn´t really exist, but you also have lot´s of people who use not so specialized builds and even lot´s of people who run weird, wildly mixed up weaponry.

but it´s nature of men also, that you only realize what terrorizes you -personally- the most for me it´s LRM, as i said because they are just annoying me

LRMs... Can be stopped by using an ECM mech or having a friend covering you with ECM but it is certainly annoying.
There are a time a single volley of LRMs could leg a Stalker !!
*Just one of the many stains in PGI's past implementation.

Edited by ShinVector, 08 November 2013 - 12:54 AM.

[MountainCopper]

The major change has been to PPC/AC5 or PPC/UAC5. Oh, and almost forgot... JJ! Rise in the air, deal out 30 or 40 damage and disappear. Too many are doing it, and it angers me, every time I see it.

Still, it isn't nearly as bad as it was before the heat penalties and max alphas for weapons. I'm not saying we should go back there.
The hit detection still limits SMRs. And if the choice is between a PPC or LRMs for ranged combat, the better choice nearly always has to be a PPC...

I am still not happy with weapon balancing... still high alpha above anything else. Take something else, or a balanced loudout even, and you are at a disadvantage.

[Juuso Karhu]

GoldenFleece, on 08 November 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Oh, and almost forgot... JJ! Rise in the air, deal out 30 or 40 damage and disappear. Too many are doing it, and it angers me, every time I see it.

Jump jets just are 'mechwarrior. Learn to use 'em yourself or learn to dodge the jumpers.


http://www.sarna.net/

Some good reading on battletech.