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Pilot Tree And Quirk Tree


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Poll: Pilot Tree and Quirk Tree Opinions (27 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you like the concept of the Pilot Tree?

  1. Yes I like the concept (6 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  2. Yes I like the general concept, but it could use work (14 votes [51.85%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 51.85%

  3. No I don't like the concept (7 votes [25.93%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 25.93%

Do you like the concept for the Quirk Tree?

  1. Yes I like the concept (5 votes [18.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.52%

  2. Yes I like the direction of the concpt but it needs work (16 votes [59.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 59.26%

  3. No I don't like the concept (6 votes [22.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

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#1 Destoroyah

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:25 AM

This will be a long post so you were forewarned.

First is the Pilot tree.

The problem with the pilot tree as it is currently is it tends to as many believe favor larger mechs more then the lighter mechs. Also once filled offers little incentive to keep getting experience for since all you can do is convert the surplus into GXP at a MC cost. My main suggestion is to change the pilot tree into categories and also to add tiers. So when you choice a item in a given category you can't select another option in the category but can upgrade the tier(max 3) if it offers it. If you want to change to a new option in a category you can but your lose all upgrades in the previous at no cost but have to have the XP to start the new category thereby making a use of surplus XP.

Categories:

Mobility: Speed Tweak, Anchor Turn, Lean Turn.
Speed Tweak - Pilot Coaxes more out of the engine improving top speed. 3% max speed per tier.
Anchor Turn - Pilots awareness of his immediate surrondings allow for better foot placement enabling quicker turning while standing in one place. 4% turn speed when standing still per tier.
Lean Turn - Pilot knows how to shift the mechs weight so as to allow tighter turning when on the move. 3% turn speed when moving per tier.

Cooling: Cool Run, Heat Containment, Quick Ignition.
Cool Run - Pilot is Efficient at distributing heat throughout the mech allowing more efficient colling. 5% heat dissipation per tier.
Heat Containment - Pilot is capable of better containing heat in the heatsinks allowing the pilot to build up more heat without overheating the mech. 5% heat threshold per tier.
Quick Ignition - Pilot is efficient at managing heat when shut down and is able to more quickly handle the speed of shutdown and startup sequences. !0% cooling disipation when shutdown, and 10% faster shutdown and startup speed per tier.

Reflexes: Speed Adjustment, Rapid Reaction, Extended Reach.
Speed Adjustment - Pilot is good at finetuning their speed so can accerate and decelerate faster. 8% deceleration and acceleration speed per tier.
Rapid Reaction - The pilot's sharp reflexes and battlefield awareness allow the pilot to improve the speed in which they can bring their weapons too bere on target. 5% Torso Twist and Arm Speed per tier.
Extended Reach - Pilot knows how to postion the mech in such a way as to allow greater range of motion with the arms and torso then would normally be allowed. 5% Torso twist and arm angle improvements per tier.

Weapon Handling: Fast Fire, Rapid Cycling.
Fast Fire - Pilot have tweaked the safety protocals to allow all weapons to fire faster then designed. 5% reduced cooldown on weapons per tier.
Rapid Cycling - Pilot knows how to chainfire weapons faster while keeping within safety margins. 10% faster chainfire rate and reduces ghost heat rating according per tier.

As for how the mastering tiers will work in order to advance to elite you need to get tier 1 of each category and in ordaer to get to master you need to get at least 2 categories to tier 2 to unlock master. Tier 3 would be included in the elite bracket.
Now all mechs and variants won't have the same access to all tiers in the categories and each category would be unique per mech. The theory being some mechs are harder to handle in certain aspects then others.
For example a atlas isn't very flexible or fast so they got poor options in the mobility and Reactions categories but got good weapon handling and decent cooling. A example of varient differences is a atlas-D would have tier 3 fast fire but tier 1 rapid cycling with average flexibility with extended reach, rapid reaction, and anchor turn at tier 2. Where as a Atlas-BH would be more focused on speed with rapid cycling at tier 3 and fast fire at tier 1 and speed adjustments and speed tweak at tier 2. Cooling would be normally average for all atlas's.

As for the Master rank I would like to see it expanded. One concept I think would be interesting is adding a ability unlock. The ability unlock can either be a free consumable or a special ability you can activate periodically or once per fight. Example of abilites. HNK-4G/H get Double Tap when activated allows any ballistic weapon to recharge instantly 3min cooldown. Rapid Fire could be another that is available to all jagermechs which reduces the cooldowns of all ballistics by 25% and the cooldown of all missles by 50%.


Quirk Tree:

Now my main purpose for making the quirk tree was to help bring back mech identity. I'm a strong supporter of hardpoint limitations, but since that is highly unlikely at this point I thought of this system that not only adds a XP sink, but encourages certain builds or reinforces a mechs role or helps cover weaknesses without removing a players ability to build as they want. Even if they choose not to use certain equipment there is always a option available to them though it might not be the strongest.

Now my concept of the quirk tree is similiar to the pilot tree. The concept being where unlike the pilot tree that revolves around what your pilot can do in the cockpit your mechwarrior is actually making tweaks to the mech itself all of which use XP and Maybe a small C-bill fee similar how some make adjustments to a firearm to give it a hair trigger or load bullets faster. Unlike the pilot tier you can have multiple sub-categories in a category filled but only up to the max tier offered in the sub-categories, so if a sub-category has a max of 5 tiers you only got 5 slots available to you in that category so you can't fill all sub-categories. Another difference from the pilot tree is there are no brackets so all that matters to progress is that you got the previous tier.

Categories:

Weapons: Fast Reloader, Extended Magazine, Efficient Cooling System, Heat Shunters.
All the sub-categories except extended magazine are subject to weapon size or category table as listed below.
Large Ballistic = Gauss and AC20
Small Ballistic = Ac10, LBX10, AC5, Ultra5, AC2
Large Energy = PPC, ERPPC, Large Laser, ERLarge Laser, Large Pulse Laser
Small Energy = Medium Laser, Medium Pulse Laser, Small Laser, Small Pulse Laser, Flamer
LRM Category
SRM Category

Fast Reloader - Mech's ammunition loader is augmented to allow faster ammuniton reloading. 5% reduced cooldown to weapon cooldown per tier.
Efficient Cooling - Rearranges your internal cooling system to allocate more cooling to heat intensive areas improving the weapons heat efficiency. 5% reduction in the amount of heat a energy weapon produces per tier.
Heat Shunters - You add strategically placed exhaust ports that help you cool your mech faster. 2% increased heat dissipation(Universal) per tier.
Extended Magazine - You use specially desighed ammo boxes so you can fit more rounds. 5% increase in ammo per box per tier. (Ammo is rounded up or down as needed and first tier is always set at 10%)
*Special* For Machine Gun only = Ultra-Armor Piercing Rounds - adds 0.01 to damage per tier.

Performance: Enhanced Actuators, Efficient Burn, Enhanced Jump Jets, Augmented Engine.
Enhanced Actuators - You made adjustments to your actuators to allow greater flexability and movement. 2% improved turning speed and torso twist and arm angles per tier.
Augmented Engine - you made tweaks to your engine to make it more efficient. 2% increase in max speed, acceleration, and deceleration per tier.
Efficient Burn - your jumpjets are augmented to use less fuel and recharge fuel faster by 3%-10% per tier.
Enhanced Jumpjets - Your jumpjets are augmented to give you greater thrust and stability, but consume more fuel, based on a per JJ basis. 5% reduction in aim shake when rising per tier. Also 2%-5% increased JJ movement speed per JJ unit installed per tier(consumes appropriate fuel).
*I wasn't sure about the figures for the Jump jets so just made rough values.*

Armor: Reinforced Armor, Enhanced Materials, Equipment Plating, Reiforced Structure.
Reinforced Armor - Certain sections of a mech are more more heavily reinforced allowing for better impact absorbancy or heat distribution prolonging the life of the armor put there. 5% damage reduction to that section of a mechs armor per tier(2-3 sections maximum).
Enhanced Materials - Mech is using slightly stronger materials giving your armor slightly improved resilency. 2% reduced damage to all armor per tier.
Reinforced Structure - The Structure of the mech is reinforced to help it stand up to more punishment. 2% increase to structual health per section per tier.
Equipment Plating - Adds protective plating to all equipment. Adds 1 health and reduces crit damage by 5% per tier.

Support Equipment: Improved Sensors, Improved Lock Tools, Module Booster, Enhanced Countermeasures.
Improved Sensors- Boosts the sensitivity of your sensors improving preformance. 5% increased sensor range and info gathering time per tier.
Improved Lock Tools - Increases the range of NARC and TAG and improves their signals. 10% increased range and 5% decreased lock times per tier.
Enhanced Countermeasures - AMS can now target objects farther away and ECM and BAP have stronger signals allowing them to overpower jamming at greater distances. 10% increase in AMS range and BAP and ECM(CounterMode) can overide ECM(DisruptMode) by 10 more meters per tier.
Module Booster - Improves the efficiency of all non-consumable modules by a small amount. Values will vary per module.

All mechs will only ever have 3 of any sub-category available to them except with performance that can range from 2-3. Also every mech and variant will have it's own setup with differing strengths and weaknesses.
Example 1: A Atlas would have strong values in Armor, and only decent lvls in weapons and performance, and poor support equipment capability. Where as a Raven would have strong support equipment and performance and only mediocre armor and weapons. there are some exceptions like a Atlas-K would have good Enhanced Countermeasures.
Example 2: Variants will have noticable differences though will be close in capabilities. Like a HNK-4G would have very good Weapons and Armor and only average Support and Performance with strong values in RT Reinforced Armor and Large Ballistic Fast Reload. Where as a HNK-4H Would have Good Armor and Weapons with a reasonable Light Ballistic Fast Reload, but makes up for it with slightly better performance values.

Here are samples of mechs to showcase the differences:

HNK-4G:
Weapons(5 Max): Extended Magazine - 3, SmallEnergy Efficient Cooling - 1, LargeBallistic Fast Reload - 5
Armor(5 Max): Reinforced Armor(RT) - 5, Reinforced Structual - 3, Equipment Plating - 3
Performance(3 Max): Enhanced Actuators - 3, Augmented Engine - 1
Support(2 Max): Improved Sensors - 2, Module Booster - 2, Enhanced Countermeasure - 1

HNK-4H:
Weapons(4 Max): Extended Magazine - 2, SmallEnergy Efficient Cooling - 2, SmallBallistic Fast Reload - 4
Armor(4 Max): Reinforced Armor(RT) - 4, Reinforced Structural - 3, Equipment Plating - 3
Performance(3 Max): Enhanced Actuators - 3, Augmented Engine - 2
Support(3 Max): Improved Sensor - 2, Module Booster - 3, Enhanced Countermeasures - 1

HNK-4P:
Weapons(4 Max): SmallEnergy Efficient Cooling - 4, Heat Shunters - 4, Extended Magazine -1
Armor(3 Max): Reinforced Armor(RT) - 3, Reinforced Structual - 2, Equipment Plating - 2
Performance(3 Max): Enhanced Actuators - 3, Augmented Engine - 3
Support(3 Max): Improved Sensors - 2, Module Booster - 3, Enhanced Countermeasures - 2

HNK-4J:
Weapons(4 Max): LRM Fast Reload - 4, Extended Magazine - 3, SmallEne Efficient Cooling - 2
Armor(3 Max): Reinforced Armor(RT) - 3, Reinforced Structural - 2, Equipment Plating - 2
Performance(3 Max): Enhanced Actuators - 2, Augmented Engine - 3
Support(3 Max): Improved Sensors - 3, Module Booster - 3, Improved Lock Tools -2

HNK-4SP:
Weapons(3 Max): SRM Fast Reload -3, Extended Magazine - 2, SmallEne Efficient Cooling - 2
Armor(3 Max): Enhanced Materials - 3, Reinforced Structual - 2, Equipment Plating - 2
Performance(4 Max): Enhanced Actuators - 4, Augmented Engine - 2
Support(2 Max): Improved Sensor - 2, Module Booster - 2, Enhanced Countermeasures - 2

Edited by Destoroyah, 07 November 2013 - 07:22 PM.


#2 Stingray Productions

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:37 AM

remember in mechcommander 2, when a pilot advanced you'd choose a skill they'd then be good at, LRM specialist, short range specialist, sensor specialist, toughness specialist, etc. I like the idea of getting these efficiencies through the pilot tree.

#3 Destoroyah

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 07:24 PM

added a poll to see how others rate the concepts as laid out.

#4 FinsT

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 11:48 PM

imho: both proposed trees are too complex, and too restrictive. Good designs are simple enough. I agree that current pilot tree is far from perfect, and needs further fine balancing. But imho it should be done with tuning numbers (possibly adding per-class differencies, i.e. different values for light/medium/heavy/assault classes). Expanding it with new abilities can also be done. But not at a cost of hurting already existing efficiencies, though.

Note, also, that i say so only because MWO is not an RPG (and imho, it shouldn't become one). For an RPG, much of what you propose could be a good thing; but for MWO, i doubt it'd be.

P.S. Much thought and work was done in making 1st post here, OP. No matter my disagreement, i respect that. o7

#5 Curccu

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:43 AM

Can I have TL:DR ?

#6 stjobe

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:16 AM

As usual when these kinds of threads pop up, I direct your attention to Dev Blog 4: Role Warfare.

They had a vastly superior system sketched out, but for some unfathomable reason abandoned it for the current system (which was initially just a place-holder for the above system).

I die a little every time I read that post and think about what we could have had if they'd just stayed the course.

#7 Levon K

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:25 AM

View Poststjobe, on 08 November 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

As usual when these kinds of threads pop up, I direct your attention to Dev Blog 4: Role Warfare.

They had a vastly superior system sketched out, but for some unfathomable reason abandoned it for the current system (which was initially just a place-holder for the above system).

I die a little every time I read that post and think about what we could have had if they'd just stayed the course.


Sigh. That's when MWO was all hopes and dreams. Harsh reality kicks in and they realize they won't even get the UI 2.0 and CW basics in until launch has gone and passed.

#8 fandre

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:09 AM

View PostDestoroyah, on 07 November 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

...
So when you choice a item in a given category you can't select another option in the category but can upgrade the tier(max 3) if it offers it. If you want to change to a new option in a category you can but your lose all upgrades in the previous at no cost but have to have the XP to start the new category thereby making a use of surplus XP.


I have stopped reading here. If i want to play a RPG, I will play a game which is a RPG. It would be nice to have more items in the tree but with the option to get them all. The suggested skill tree in Dev Blog 4 is fine because it offers multiple levels but without restrictions.

#9 Zerberus

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 06:12 AM

View PostFinsT, on 07 November 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

imho: both proposed trees are too complex, and too restrictive. Good designs are simple enough. I agree that current pilot tree is far from perfect, and needs further fine balancing. But imho it should be done with tuning numbers (possibly adding per-class differencies, i.e. different values for light/medium/heavy/assault classes). Expanding it with new abilities can also be done. But not at a cost of hurting already existing efficiencies, though.

Note, also, that i say so only because MWO is not an RPG (and imho, it shouldn't become one). For an RPG, much of what you propose could be a good thing; but for MWO, i doubt it'd be.

P.S. Much thought and work was done in making 1st post here, OP. No matter my disagreement, i respect that. o7

^^ 100% This

In a day and age when even the oldest and most complex games are for the most part simplyfying their skill trees (some to the point of being ***** proof), taking an existing system and making it more complex is risky at best....

#10 Least Action Jackson

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:06 AM

I'm not too hung up on the details of what is in the pilot tree, but It would be really great to not have to buy two mechs I don't care about to drive the one I want.

#11 Hellcat420

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 10:25 AM

what they should do is let people pick a primary and secondary weight class. you would be able to master the primary weight class and elite the secondary class. the other two weight classes should only be allowed to get basics at most(I think you shouldn't be able to buy any skills for them).

#12 fandre

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 03:56 AM

The restrictions for the pilot tree is IMO bad but I can see the potential to make different variants of a mech more interesting if the get quirks specialiced for each variant. For example a energy focused mech variants gets specialiced quirks for energy, a light quirks for movement or something alike. Maybe in this way:

http://mwomercs.com/...pecific-skills/

But the proposed quirk tree and system is far to complex and should not punish wrong decisions with an option to change it without penalty.

View PostHellcat420, on 08 November 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

... the other two weight classes should only be allowed to get basics at most(I think you shouldn't be able to buy any skills for them).


Why should the system be restricted? MWO has a limited amount of maps and modes and a decent amount of mechs and configurations. The later one is also limited by meta game. Your idea is, to restric the usability of mech classes so that I have to focus on 1 or 2? So I'm even more limited and do I need an new account, when I decide to try and optimize lights after playing mediums and heavys? That will make this limited game even worse.

@Topic:
In canon a mechwarrior would be happy if he has the chance to pilot and "master" more than a light mech or severel mechs in his live time but there is no reason to adapt this to a game, where each player is virtualy an immortal bataillion in one person.

IMHO as a player I like to have a variety of game experience without playing months the same game mode maps etc. and enforcing a specialisation leads to a lot more repetive playing than now.

Edited by fandre, 20 November 2013 - 04:07 AM.


#13 VixNix

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 05:28 PM

NO!
the only diference in mechs should be load out, no modules no unlocks
NO

#14 Leo Kraeas

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:27 PM

WOW. Way to raise this one from the dead... the last post before you was 11 months ago. Please try not to Necropost. You are entitled to your opinion, but at least keep that opinion in more up-to-date threads.

#15 VixNix

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:01 PM

View PostLeo Kraeas, on 06 October 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

WOW. Way to raise this one from the dead... the last post before you was 11 months ago. Please try not to Necropost. You are entitled to your opinion, but at least keep that opinion in more up-to-date threads.


Eh, sorry didnt look at the date...





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