125 replies to this topic

[Whatzituyah]

I am sorry but I have to say that it could happen. I mean look at Jaggermech and the other Pheonix Project mechs introduced chances are we will see a Marauder no matter how ugly it is! I included Jaggermech because its varients resemble more of a Rifleman that's also a mech HG was suing about. Reseen included Locust, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Scorpion, Wolverine, Marauder, Goliath, and BattleMaster. Any look or sound familiar? No? Then you are to picky.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 09 November 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Whatzituyah, on 09 November 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

I am sorry but I have to say that it could happen. I mean look at Jaggermech and the other Pheonix Project mechs introduced chances are we will see a Marauder no matter how ugly it is! I included Jaggermech because its varients resemble more of a Rifleman that's also a mech HG was suing about. Reseen included Locust, Griffin, Shadow Hawk, Thunderbolt, Scorpion, Wolverine, Marauder, Goliath, and BattleMaster. Any look or sound familiar? No? Then you are to picky.

Chances are we won't.

Before doing any Project Phoenix mechs PGI actually goes to HG and asks them is this ok.

They say "Yes or No"

So far they have said "No" to all.

Sure PGI could still publish it but HG would probably sue.

It's why they are in the loop to begin with, so they can avoid lawsuits.

Wishes were fishes we would all throw dynamite into the pond.

[Whatzituyah]

Carrioncrows, on 09 November 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Chances are we won't.

Before doing any Project Phoenix mechs PGI actually goes to HG and asks them is this ok.

They say "Yes or No"

So far they have said "No" to all.

Sure PGI could still publish it but HG would probably sue.

It's why they are in the loop to begin with, so they can avoid lawsuits.

Wishes were fishes we would all throw dynamite into the pond.

Please compare the mechs I listed to the ones in the game NAME WISE and come back too me and say it again. Because so far I see names that are listed as some of the Reseen listed.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 09 November 2013 - 03:53 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Whatzituyah, on 09 November 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Please compare the mechs I listed to the ones in the game NAME WISE and come back too me and say it again. Because so far I see names that are listed as some of the Reseen listed.

Yes we know.

I know about the reseen, you know about the reseen we all know about the reseen.

But what I am saying is that when it comes to any mech that was also licensed by HG (Reseen, Unseen, Epeen) PGI is going to HG to ask them if it this particular image violates their license and can they use it without causing issues.

Doesn't matter if it's reseen or unseen HG can still take them to court.

Don't you think that PGI hasn't already thought of the reseen mechs? Listen to the dev speak and interviews, so far all the designs they have taken to HG have been voted down. They may not look like anything close to their previous incarnations but because HG can claim that they were inspired or based upon their licensed material.

The only unseen / reseen mech I care about now is the Phoenix Hawk, not because I care about the looks of the new or the old just because there is no other mech in the current timeline that does what the Phoenix hawk does and will fill a much needed gap in MWO's bank of mechs.

That of a 45 ton heavy scout that is fast, decently armed and very jump capable.

[DirePhoenix]

Carrioncrows, on 09 November 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Yes we know.

I know about the reseen, you know about the reseen we all know about the reseen.

But what I am saying is that when it comes to any mech that was also licensed by HG (Reseen, Unseen, Epeen) PGI is going to HG to ask them if it this particular image violates their license and can they use it without causing issues.

Doesn't matter if it's reseen or unseen HG can still take them to court.

Don't you think that PGI hasn't already thought of the reseen mechs? Listen to the dev speak and interviews, so far all the designs they have taken to HG have been voted down. They may not look like anything close to their previous incarnations but because HG can claim that they were inspired or based upon their licensed material.

The only unseen / reseen mech I care about now is the Phoenix Hawk, not because I care about the looks of the new or the old just because there is no other mech in the current timeline that does what the Phoenix hawk does and will fill a much needed gap in MWO's bank of mechs.

That of a 45 ton heavy scout that is fast, decently armed and very jump capable.

Please link or show where you have seen any devspeak or interviews where they said they actually took anything to HG

HG has no claim on any of the ReSeen. Those are perfectly legal. HG only has claim on the Macross (art) designs.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 09 November 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

Please link or show where you have seen any devspeak or interviews where they said they actually took anything to HG

HG has no claim on any of the ReSeen. Those are perfectly legal. HG only has claim on the Macross (art) designs.

Do a forum search or seach anything by Russ on twitter.

EDIT: In case you are lazy check Russ Bullock's twitter for Oct 11th.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 09 November 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[ssm]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

And it is precisely this attitude that will ensure we never get a representation of the Marauder in MWO.

Even worse - it is precisely this attitude that ensures that BT will always be dwindling IP on the verge of collapse. You can't entice new people to play the game (whether it's TT or computer game) of stompy walking tanks when 80% of those walking tanks look more like cheesy japanese droids from 80s anime series than actual military vehicles.

Best thing that happened to Battletech IP in years is Alex's artwork for MWO.

Edited by ssm, 09 November 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

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  45]
  LockeJaw ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]Locke_Jaw10 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen Whens the Marauder Pack going to be available?
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  

  
  
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  45]
  Bryan Ekman ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]bryanekman11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen Soon as Harmony Gold dissolves into the ether.
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  

  
  
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  45]
  Bhael Fire ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]Bhael_Fire11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen You can't make a completely redesigned Marauder? After all, the name is BT IP, right?
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  

  
  
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  45]
  Bryan Ekman ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]bryanekman11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Bhael_Fire [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen We could. But the age old question - what are people's expectations?
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  

  
  
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  45]
  Serious Table ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]SeriousTable11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Bhael_Fire [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen Have your concept artist draw a few designs, then have the community vote!
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  

  
  
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  45]
  Russ Bullock ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]russ_bullock11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]SeriousTable [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Bhael_Fire [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen its not that simple..HG needs to vote as well and they always vote no

[Belorion]

Allen Ward, on 09 November 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

That design is definitely a Marauder rip-off and HG would successfully sue PGI over it. Any giant robot design that has the characteristics of a Marauder will make them smile coldly and dial their laywers number. The legs, the typical arms/cannons with those edges, the back mounted AC cannon design, crooked stance, it is not possible to design a Marauder that looks like a Marauder for us but not for Harmony Gold.


Cataphract

Actually it probably would not be successful, but they would sue all the same.

[DirePhoenix]

Also, yes if you want to get technical, 2003's TRO:Project Phoenix was first puiblished under Fanpro, not Catalyst Game Labs, the current publisher of Battletech source material. However, both FanPro and Catalyst licensed their art from Topps Inc., and FanPro's art was never "pulled". So if you want to discount TRO: Project Phoenix because it's not Catalyst, here are some other "UnSeen" that have been published by Catalyst/Topps since then, to show that these 'mechs are still being published with art today, and didn't suddenly disappear (again) since FanPro switched BattleTech over to Catalyst:


Wasp:

Spoiler

WSP-1 Wasp: published Feb. 2012, XTRO: Primitives, Volume 2:



WSP-8T Wasp: published 2010, TRO: 3085

Stinger:

Spoiler

STG-3P Stinger: published 2010, TRO: 3085:

Phoenix Hawk:

Spoiler

PXH-5L Phoenix Hawk: published 2010, TRO: 3085:

Ostroc:

Spoiler

OSR-5W Ostroc: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Ostsol:

Spoiler

OTL-9R Ostsol: published 2010, TRO:3085
:

Rifleman:

Spoiler

RFL-7X Rifleman: published 2010, TRO:3085:



RFL-X3 Rifleman, published July 2010, XTRO:Davion:

Crusader:

Spoiler

CRD-8L Crusader: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Archer:

Spoiler

ARC-9M Archer: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Warhammer:

Spoiler

WHM-X7 Warhammer: published April 2010, XTRO: Gladiators:



WHM-11T Warhammer: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Marauder:

Spoiler

MAD-9W2 Marauder: published 2010, TRO:3085:



MAD-4X Marauder: published November 2012, XTRO: Succesion Wars:



MAD-4X Marauder: published November 2012, XTRO: Succession Wars (cover):

Marauder II:

Spoiler

MAD-6D Marauder II: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Edited by DirePhoenix, 09 November 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

Carrioncrows, on 09 November 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

• 
  
  
  

  45]

  
  
  LockeJaw ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]Locke_Jaw10 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen Whens the Marauder Pack going to be available?
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  
• 
  
  
  

  45]

  
  
  Bryan Ekman ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]bryanekman11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen Soon as Harmony Gold dissolves into the ether.
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  
• 
  
  
  

  45]

  
  
  Bhael Fire ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]Bhael_Fire11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen You can't make a completely redesigned Marauder? After all, the name is BT IP, right?
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  
• 
  
  
  

  45]

  
  
  Bryan Ekman ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]bryanekman11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Bhael_Fire [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen We could. But the age old question - what are people's expectations?
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  
• 
  
  
  

  45]

  
  
  Serious Table ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]SeriousTable11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Bhael_Fire [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]russ_bullock [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen Have your concept artist draw a few designs, then have the community vote!
  [color=#0084B4][color=#999999]Expand[/color][/color]
  
  
• 
  
  
  

  45]

  
  
  Russ Bullock ‏[color=#BBBBBB]@[/color]russ_bullock11 Oct
  [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]SeriousTable [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]bryanekman [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Bhael_Fire [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]Locke_Jaw [color=#66B5D2]@[/color]risko_vinsheen its not that simple..HG needs to vote as well and they always vote no

None of this says they actually took anything to HG. And if Catalyst/Topps is any indication, the situation is either:

• 1) No, HG does not "need to vote"
  
• or 2) HG does not "always vote no".

Which reinforces my opinion over the past few years that the "dramas" over the unseen is a load of BS that only serves to make those images seem even more important than they are

Edited by DirePhoenix, 09 November 2013 - 05:42 PM.

[Belorion]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

None of this says they actually took anything to HG. And if Catalyst/Topps is any indication, the situation is either:

• 1) No, HG does not "need to vote"
  
• or 2) HG does not "always vote no".

Which reinforces my opinion over the past few years that the "dramas" over the unseen is a load of BS that only serves to make those images seem even more important than they are

[DirePhoenix]

Oh forgot about this one: WHAT'S THAT OFF TO THE LEFT? OH SNAPS ITS ANOTHER MARAUDER!



...published in 2010

[Belorion]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Oh forgot about this one: WHAT'S THAT OFF TO THE LEFT? OH SNAPS ITS ANOTHER MARAUDER!



...published in 2010

That is different enough that HG wouldn't touch it.

Its also not a marauder...

[DirePhoenix]

Belorion, on 09 November 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Its also not a marauder...

I'm pretty sure the owner of the rights to all Battletech imagery in print media would disagree with you. And I'm pretty sure their authority surpasses yours on the matter.

[Belorion]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the owner of the rights to all Battletech imagery in print media would disagree with you. And I'm pretty sure their authority surpasses yours on the matter.

It hasn't ever passed the vote of public opinion. Personally I am not particularly tied to the macross art. FD could do a better marauder I am sure.

They shouldn't base it off of that thing though.

ETA: The nose on that thing looks more like the Dragon. They could always take the Dragon and slap some cataphract arms on it, and Catapult legs.

Edited by Belorion, 09 November 2013 - 07:05 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

Belorion, on 09 November 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

It hasn't ever passed the vote of public opinion.

And this is the key: It doesn't have to pass the vote of public opinion.

Ekman/Russ don't want to make a Marauder that doesn't meet the community's expectations. Think about how ludicrous that is. If they didn't want to make anything that didn't meet "the community's expectations", we wouldn't have a game at all. Fanpro/Catalyst/Topps made a decision. They could either never ever show those historic mechs again, or they could spit out some new art and move on from there.

I will grant you that most of their art is fugly, but I would still prefer that we have something to represent those mechs than nothing at all. And, with in-house designs that belong to them instead of being licensed from an outside source, they can do whatever they want with them, including make new iterations (which, it looks like they're starting to by accepting SS's art for the MAD-4X). So we as a community have to let go of that Macross art. It was useful in a time when FASA didn't have a lot of (or any) artists for Battletech, but that time has passed, and the IP needs and has the ability to move on with their own designs now, and we need to accept that the Macross designs don't belong anymore.

[Carrioncrows]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

None of this says they actually took anything to HG. And if Catalyst/Topps is any indication, the situation is either:

• 1) No, HG does not "need to vote"
  
• or 2) HG does not "always vote no".

Which reinforces my opinion over the past few years that the "dramas" over the unseen is a load of BS that only serves to make those images seem even more important than they are

Your ability to ignore evidence should be commended or your reading comprehension needs to be addressed.

If you want clarification on what is a pretty clear answer I suggest you ask Russ or PGI on the matter.

On to more important threads.

[GalaxyBluestar]

my prayers are with hasbro to sink HG for their constant trolling of IP they hardly even use, they've made more money taking people to court over it than actually marketing it. with the macross mechs buying them through robotech wasn't much better than when BT got them via model contracts.

i do so hope HG will learn that contract licensing is better than lawyers.

Barantor, on 07 November 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

Not lucky enough. Both sides dropped the case so nothing is gonna happen there.

http://www.animenews...-case-dismissed

#no.gif

DyDrimer, on 08 November 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

If we got the Marauder the forums would just whine about the CT being to big, or the arms being to easy to shoot.

never stopped some people using awesomes and trebs and other poor scale/hitbox mechs. for an icon many are willing to die... repeatedly in an online video game

Bounty Dogg, on 09 November 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

Sigh......if we could just get the community on the same page.....the Marauder ingame could look like THIS:
http://fc03.devianta...ord-d548k5f.jpg

dude they even ogt stroppy about the re-design warhammer for the MW5 trailer. shim's marauder is just as similler to the original marauder as the warhammer trailer was. HG are just keen to make money from the courts more than marketing and working with others. we have other unseens because everyone else want's to do buisness HG doesn't because they're *****.

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Also, yes if you want to get technical, 2003's TRO:Project Phoenix was first puiblished under Fanpro, not Catalyst Game Labs, the current publisher of Battletech source material. However, both FanPro and Catalyst licensed their art from Topps Inc., and FanPro's art was never "pulled". So if you want to discount TRO: Project Phoenix because it's not Catalyst, here are some other "UnSeen" that have been published by Catalyst/Topps since then, to show that these 'mechs are still being published with art today, and didn't suddenly disappear (again) since FanPro switched BattleTech over to Catalyst:


Wasp:

Spoiler

WSP-1 Wasp: published Feb. 2012, XTRO: Primitives, Volume 2:



WSP-8T Wasp: published 2010, TRO: 3085

Stinger:

Spoiler

STG-3P Stinger: published 2010, TRO: 3085:

Phoenix Hawk:

Spoiler

PXH-5L Phoenix Hawk: published 2010, TRO: 3085:

Ostroc:

Spoiler

OSR-5W Ostroc: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Ostsol:

Spoiler

OTL-9R Ostsol: published 2010, TRO:3085
:

Rifleman:

Spoiler

RFL-7X Rifleman: published 2010, TRO:3085:



RFL-X3 Rifleman, published July 2010, XTRO:Davion:

Crusader:

Spoiler

CRD-8L Crusader: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Archer:

Spoiler

ARC-9M Archer: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Warhammer:

Spoiler

WHM-X7 Warhammer: published April 2010, XTRO: Gladiators:



WHM-11T Warhammer: published 2010, TRO:3085:

Marauder:

Spoiler

MAD-9W2 Marauder: published 2010, TRO:3085:



MAD-4X Marauder: published November 2012, XTRO: Succesion Wars:



MAD-4X Marauder: published November 2012, XTRO: Succession Wars (cover):

Marauder II:

Spoiler

MAD-6D Marauder II: published 2010, TRO:3085:

ahh yes the reasons i stopped being involved in anything BT for years, the catalog of generic fugly, if it wasn't microsoft then it was HG.

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Oh forgot about this one: WHAT'S THAT OFF TO THE LEFT? OH SNAPS ITS ANOTHER MARAUDER!



...published in 2010

or something else pretending to be one by putting it's name on it, rewritting it's own history all to keep a screwed franchise going once it lost it's stars like fasa etc through courts. doesn't stop fans remembering the truth.

ggclose

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 09 November 2013 - 08:06 PM.

[MuonNeutrino]

The problem is, the entire reason I *like* the marauder is the way it looks. I mean, yes, the old macross art looks cheesy now. But stuff like shimmering sword's adaptations of it (which are sadly too close to the original to pass muster)? YUM! Yes, the battletech IP owners can call any design they want the marauder. But if it looks like all the various utterly fugly 'reseen' marauders they've tried, I for one won't be interested in it.