19 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Yes, this lovely red-headed physically abused horse again...

Gauss has for all practical purposes been defined within MW:O as a sniping weapon, particularly in light of the charge + velocity tweaks.

Since then there has been a many complain and suggestion offered up to the PGI gods and umbrage has been leveled by the community against most all... Here's mine to add to the list:

Anyone who knows the role of a sniper and have even a rudimentary grasp of it's intricacies will tell you a charge-up mechanism for a sniper weapon is beyond idiocy. In short, any delay in cycling a shot and or fumbling with an awkward mechanism makes it neig useless...

Process:

- 1st click to chamber a projectile.
- 2nd click to charge the capacitors.
* Charge holds for a duration of 30 seconds, then discharges.
** Would then need to be re-charged.
*** Weapon is volatile only while charged.
- 3rd. click fires the weapon.

This re-positions the mechanics to make the weapon exhibit the traits of a sniper weapon, creates a fail-safe against macros and allows the weapon to be carried in a "safety" state (discharged), thus mitigating explosion potential.

Thoughts?

Edited by DaZur, 08 November 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Roughneck45]

It sounds cool, but they would never do it. The whole change was to remove gauss as a dominant jump sniping weapon. Being able to hold the charge would put it right back on top again and everyone would go back to PPC Gauss.

Id rather they increase the range that you get full damage in, or decreased the drop off in damage at further ranges. Make those shots at 1000m do some damage so they feel worth it instead of a waste of ammo. It would be nice to actually snipe with what they claim is their sniper weapon.

Edited by Roughneck45, 08 November 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[DaZur]

Roughneck45, on 08 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

It sounds cool, but they would never do it. The whole change was to remove gauss as a dominant jump sniping weapon. Being able to hold the charge would put it right back on top again and everyone would go back to PPC Gauss.

Id rather they increase the range that you get full damage in, or decreased the drop off in damage at further ranges. Make those shots at 1000m do some damage so they feel worth it instead of a waste of ammo. It would be nice to actually snipe with what they claim is their sniper weapon.

Actually the charge was added to de-synergize it from the PPC (PPC+Gauss alpha meta) ... This mechanism keeps is de-synergized. Maybe 30 seconds is too generous?... How about 15 seconds? 10?

[Corpsecandle]

I still don't see how it would defeat a macro though? I'm not familiar with creating macros myself, but surely something that allows you to kick off a couple of button clicks and start a timer, if the timer reaches 30secs before a third button click, timer resets. If there is a third button click before the timer completes, weapon fires and macro starts all over again.

So essentially the macro would just make the Gauss Fire on click again except for the very small window when the shell needs to be loaded and then charge happens. I was always under the impression that this is the exact reason the current shoot window is so small. A macro like this is only irrelevant now because the charge time of the Gauss is so close to the available shoot window.

[Roughneck45]

DaZur, on 08 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Actually the charge was added to de-synergize it from the PPC (PPC+Gauss alpha meta) ... This mechanism keeps is de-synergized. Maybe 30 seconds is too generous?... How about 15 seconds? 10?

This mechanism doesn't keep it de-synergized. With a charge that holds that long, the weapons are guaranteed to be fired at the same time.

That is why the charge window we have now is so small.

Edited by Roughneck45, 08 November 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[MadCat02]

Charge mechanic needs to stay . Gauss+2ER PPC was crazy overpowered .

1.25 second window is not even a huge issue for me . The damm thing shoots too slow and it does like 12 damage at 1000m.

Gauss needs either 1 second cooldown reduction or +150 meter effective range so it actually can handly ER-PPC snipers .

Edited by MadCat02, 08 November 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd rather look at tweaking the range up maybe.

[Vaktor]

Why don't they make it when you press the button the weapon charges and you press it again it fires no time limit... The catch is that you can not fire any other weapon when it is charged including other Gauss... Simple.. Effective... and instead of encouraging dual Gauss builds it discourages them.

Press once- Weapons charges and all other weapons can not be fired when it is charged

Press again- weapon fires and you can now fire other weapons after a short delay

DaZur, on 08 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Actually the charge was added to de-synergize it from the PPC (PPC+Gauss alpha meta) ... This mechanism keeps is de-synergized. Maybe 30 seconds is too generous?... How about 15 seconds? 10?

Would work equal as good to discourage PPC+Gauss alpha

maybe even make it so the only time the gauss explodes is when it is powered up because if the capacitors are not charged why should the weapon explode?

Edited by Vaktor, 08 November 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

...

The change was made with the desynch as a secondary consideration. The primary consideration was making it an actual thought out decision between taking a Gauss Rifle vs taking an AC10 or AC20. One it did SPECTACULARLY. How? Whereas before you would be silly to take a lower damage weapon with a lower range or a harder hitting weapon with only 1/3 the effective range in comparison to a weapon with one of the longest ranges in the game that generates no heat and works just as well in a snipe as it does in a brawl, they made it far more difficult to use effectively in a close ranged fight.

If the desynch was the only reason, they would have stopped at the projectile speed changes to both ERPPC/PPC and Gauss. Rolling the mouse buttons to fire both at the same time is far too easy to justify it by claiming it was for desynch purposes. I suggest you all read up on this thread over here.

Gauss is not a snap shooting weapon anymore, nor is it an easy weapon to get used to. It is, however, still extremely effective and requires planning ahead and using your situational awareness. It is a weapon that requires you, as the user, to commit to using the weapon by following some simple rules:
1. Do not be the guy in the front.
2. Utilize friendly radar contacts to pre-aim shots.
3. Keep mental tabs (aka, situational awareness) on where the enemy is even if you do not have them on radar.
4. Use cover so that when you clear it, your shot is charged and ready to fire, before ducking back behind cover.
5. Avoid brawls if at all possible.
6. IT IS NOT A DPS WEAPON.

I want to stress number 6. Short of being forced into a knife fighting situation, a Gauss mech should not be exposing itself to a derpfest puncheachotheruntilonefallsdown style fight. Your purpose is to poke out just long enough to put 15 points of damage on a specific target location, then fade away before you can be effectively countered. This is not a DPS fight. This is a precision damage fight, and here you excel at. Do not play the same game your enemies want to play.

You have got to take your time, time your shots, and get ahead of the weapon. If you do, you will do just fine.

Note, however, I do not feel Gauss is in a perfect spot yet. The timing on the charge up, charge hold, and weapon recharge period needs some timing, imo. 1 second is plenty of time to aim at what you want, but only juuust barely so. It is also about the maximum amount of time you want to expose yourself, ideally.

[Vaktor]

Pariah Devalis, on 08 November 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

...

The change was made with the desynch as a secondary consideration. The primary consideration was making it an actual thought out decision between taking a Gauss Rifle vs taking an AC10 or AC20. One it did SPECTACULARLY. How? Whereas before you would be silly to take a lower damage weapon with a lower range or a harder hitting weapon with only 1/3 the effective range in comparison to a weapon with one of the longest ranges in the game that generates no heat and works just as well in a snipe as it does in a brawl, they made it far more difficult to use effectively in a close ranged fight.

If the desynch was the only reason, they would have stopped at the projectile speed changes to both ERPPC/PPC and Gauss. Rolling the mouse buttons to fire both at the same time is far too easy to justify it by claiming it was for desynch purposes. I suggest you all read up on this thread over here.

Gauss is not a snap shooting weapon anymore, nor is it an easy weapon to get used to. It is, however, still extremely effective and requires planning ahead and using your situational awareness. It is a weapon that requires you, as the user, to commit to using the weapon by following some simple rules:
1. Do not be the guy in the front.
2. Utilize friendly radar contacts to pre-aim shots.
3. Keep mental tabs (aka, situational awareness) on where the enemy is even if you do not have them on radar.
4. Use cover so that when you clear it, your shot is charged and ready to fire, before ducking back behind cover.
5. Avoid brawls if at all possible.
6. IT IS NOT A DPS WEAPON.

I want to stress number 6. Short of being forced into a knife fighting situation, a Gauss mech should not be exposing itself to a derpfest puncheachotheruntilonefallsdown style fight. Your purpose is to poke out just long enough to put 15 points of damage on a specific target location, then fade away before you can be effectively countered. This is not a DPS fight. This is a precision damage fight, and here you excel at. Do not play the same game your enemies want to play.

You have got to take your time, time your shots, and get ahead of the weapon. If you do, you will do just fine.

Note, however, I do not feel Gauss is in a perfect spot yet. The timing on the charge up, charge hold, and weapon recharge period needs some timing, imo. 1 second is plenty of time to aim at what you want, but only juuust barely so. It is also about the maximum amount of time you want to expose yourself, ideally.

I agree with most of what you said but still think the whole mechanic encourages Dual Gauss usage far too much.

[Lightfoot]

Anything is better than the 'shoot from the hip' brawling gun MWO has cooked up. One second to shoot is not a sniper rifle, in fact it's the worst mechanic for a weapon I have ever seen in a game.

Every previous MechWarrior game has balanced the Gauss's extra range and projectile speed by giving it a 1-2 second longer recharge than the AC-20 class of weapons and that is all that's needed here. The Gauss Rifle has the lowest DPS per ton of all the Ballistics so it's only value is the projectile speed and range. PGI's current version is not a sniper rifle and I can't see how they can call it one. A sniper rifle has a dedicated scope and gives you 4-5 seconds to make the shot, but that is a 'headshot weapon', but that is what a sniper weapon does.

So I have to assume PGI's current mechanic was just to remove it from the game because no thinking person invests 17-18 tons in a weapon that is so problematic with such a narrow window of use. I rarely see the Gauss Rifle anymore and have adapted my tactics to it being absent from thebattle.

Hopefully PGI decides to re-include the Gauss Rifle for normal/average players to use because MWO gameplay became much more shallow since they removed it.

[JigglyMoobs]

Lightfoot, on 08 November 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

Anything is better than the 'shoot from the hip' brawling gun MWO has cooked up. One second to shoot is not a sniper rifle, in fact it's the worst mechanic for a weapon I have ever seen in a game.

Every previous MechWarrior game has balanced the Gauss's extra range and projectile speed by giving it a 1-2 second longer recharge than the AC-20 class of weapons and that is all that's needed here. The Gauss Rifle has the lowest DPS per ton of all the Ballistics so it's only value is the projectile speed and range. PGI's current version is not a sniper rifle and I can't see how they can call it one. A sniper rifle has a dedicated scope and gives you 4-5 seconds to make the shot, but that is a 'headshot weapon', but that is what a sniper weapon does.

So I have to assume PGI's current mechanic was just to remove it from the game because no thinking person invests 17-18 tons in a weapon that is so problematic with such a narrow window of use. I rarely see the Gauss Rifle anymore and have adapted my tactics to it being absent from thebattle.

Hopefully PGI decides to re-include the Gauss Rifle for normal/average players to use because MWO gameplay became much more shallow since they removed it.

The dead mechs in this picture did see the Gauss Rifle in action, 2 pairs of them in fact.... for a little while.

[Cerberias]

Just give PPC's the charge timer instead, problem solved for all 'alpha' builds - use the charge mechanic or spread damage with lasers etc.. gauss back to not being sub-par.. would just slot in so easily.

[Antonio]

Cerberias, on 09 November 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Just give PPC's the charge timer instead, problem solved for all 'alpha' builds - use the charge mechanic or spread damage with lasers etc.. gauss back to not being sub-par.. would just slot in so easily.

PPCs should not have the charge because they can be balanced by heat. Gauss can never be hot so you need something else to balance them with. They should decrease the cooldown though since the charge decreases the ROF.

Edited by Antonio, 09 November 2013 - 07:30 PM.

[Pjwned]

All I would really ask is a bit more time to hold the shot before it dissipates because 1.25 seconds isn't much time at all if you find yourself needing to adjust the shot a bit. In my experience at least, this makes it very difficult to use against any remotely fast mech unless they're right in your face, and that of course presents its own problems with hitting them.

I think that something like 2 seconds before the shot dissipates would be more reasonable, and perhaps the charge-up time could be increased to 1 second if that makes it too good, although I'm not really seeing how it would.

[Mechteric]

3 clicks is a bit excessive, 2 clicks would be tops I think

[Vultura]

Antonio, on 09 November 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

PPCs should not have the charge because they can be balanced by heat. Gauss can never be hot so you need something else to balance them with. They should decrease the cooldown though since the charge decreases the ROF.

Your right can never be hot.
BUT:
Gauss : 15 Tonns / PPC: 7 Tonns
Gauss do 15 dmg (15 Tonns) / 2 PPC do 20 dmg (14 Tonns)
Gauss need Ammo / PPC dont need Ammo
Gauss is fragile / PPC not
Gauss can explode and give u 20 dmg / PPC not

Yes Gauss need something to balance: Take the Charge time back!
We need any ballistic weapon to conter AC20 + 2 PPC jumpbuilds.

Edited by Vultura, 10 November 2013 - 12:44 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Vultura, on 10 November 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

We need any ballistic weapon to conter AC20 + 2 PPC jumpbuilds.

Doesn't really counter them, it just replaces them.

[Skunk Wolf]

They never should have messed with it at all.

They should have introduced ballistic drop, instead of mass-less projectiles unaffected by the forces of gravity.

PPC's spreading out like really low damage LBX's past range, AC20's droping like a rock (max range you MIGHT hit the legs [810m, 900m/s velocity, 8.2m drop {Terran Standard} depending on the world's gravity]), or tumbling after 270m.

Damage attenuation curve should have only applied to lasers.

Lasers are penalized by heat, why can't ballistics be penalized by gravity?

[Antonio]

Skunk Wolf, on 10 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

They never should have messed with it at all.

They should have introduced ballistic drop, instead of mass-less projectiles unaffected by the forces of gravity.

PPC's spreading out like really low damage LBX's past range, AC20's droping like a rock (max range you MIGHT hit the legs [810m, 900m/s velocity, 8.2m drop {Terran Standard} depending on the world's gravity]), or tumbling after 270m.

Damage attenuation curve should have only applied to lasers.

Lasers are penalized by heat, why can't ballistics be penalized by gravity?

There is ballistics drop. Fire an AC from 700m and watch where it hits compared to the crosshair. Gauss is less affected because its velocity is higher.