118 replies to this topic

[TheFlyingScotsman]

This is a problem I have noticed for a very long time, but can never seem to get across to people. Even when lasers are aimed properly at targets, they rarely deal full damage. I don't k.ow if it a problem with coding or hitboxes or the network, but they really don't put out as much damage as is lised.

It is my sincerest desire that PGI wake up and recognize this, as it makes using laser dominant boats difficult to use except in rare, lucky encounters with stationary (assuming the damage takes) or badly wounded enemies.

[Taemien]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 10 November 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

This is a problem I have noticed for a very long time, but can never seem to get across to people. Even when lasers are aimed properly at targets, they rarely deal full damage. I don't k.ow if it a problem with coding or hitboxes or the network, but they really don't put out as much damage as is lised.

It is my sincerest desire that PGI wake up and recognize this, as it makes using laser dominant boats difficult to use except in rare, lucky encounters with stationary (assuming the damage takes) or badly wounded enemies.

Its in the Engine. MWLL had the same issue, and was exacerbated whenever the number of players on a server went past 16 at almost an exponential rate. They have the same issues, and used the same engine. If I'm not mistaken, lasers in MWLL were client side hit detection so at least one weapon type would be viable in 12v12 or higher.

I'm telling you all, support a $15/month sub + Client Side hit detection.. and ALL of these problems go away overnight.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'm telling you all, support a $15/month sub + Client Side hit detection.. and ALL of these problems go away overnight.

monthly subscriptions dont work. theres a reason there are only two games with monthly subscriptions that have survived.

[Taemien]

Khobai, on 10 November 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

monthly subscriptions dont work. theres a reason there are only two games with monthly subscriptions that have survived.

Might want to do a little more research on that. Only reason EQ1/2 went F2P is because they started making more money off the market then they did in subs. Never underestimate how much a RPer is willing to spend to make their character look a certain way. Much more then you've probably spent on MWO.

(edit here, actually forgot you still need Gold status, which is a sub, in both EQ1 and EQ2 to experience end game content, which is where the majority of the playerbase is, so there's two games right there, in addition to WoW, EVE, and FFXIV and a few others, surprisingly thats most of the MMO market right there)

Besides, client side hit detection means you get the convergence change you've been wanting too. In fact it becomes easier to code than pinpoint at that rate lol.

But the sub is a necessary evil. Its to make it cost alot to hackers that get themselves banned. They'll be there, but they'll be shelling out money each time they want to come back.

But yeah, all HSR, hit detection, convergence issues would be solved overnight. Well Convergence would take a week or two while they dink around with how they want it to work on each mech (they all have different hardpoints). But it would be easy to see where they shoot at, so 90% of the work would be done.

Edited by Taemien, 10 November 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[Asbjorn Ironside]

Taemien, on 10 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

-snip-

At the risk of coming across an *****, why do we need to sub for the devs to add client side hit detection? Why should we pay per month for them to fix bugs? I dont mean to start an argument, I sincerely want to know why..

[JimboFBX]

I had a locust run straight at me, while I ran at it. I fired a ERPPC, LL, and ML at it. It had yellow armor all over, and thats it.

Then 10 seconds later, same thing except I decided to stand still while shooting, and this time at a standing still jenner. This time the jenner had dark orange armor.

Then later, as a jager, I caught a spider standing still and I shot it in the back with a two ML, two SRM2, and two UAC5. It barely took any damage.

Somethings definitely messed up.

[Corbon Zackery]

Khobai, on 10 November 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Which is fine. The problem is they didnt stop to think that autocannons/ppcs might become dominant for the same reasons. Autocannons need to be changed so they burst fire more and spread out their damage across multiple locations. PPCs should also do splash damage to spread their damage. Its the only way plausible way to nerf pinpoint alpha without introducing RNG into the game. The DoT/splash doesnt need to be nearly as extreme as lasers, but these weapons have to spread damage more, or they will always be dominant.

Well PPC can't be boated now that they have ghost heat, and no longer have a heat discount there back up to 10 and 15 as far as I'm concerned there fixed now they also lowered the speed a bit.

AC however The issue is with max range right now. As a bullet gets to its max range and beyond gravity takes effect and wind resistance slow the bullet, and wind also changes its direction. None of that applies to MechWarrior online instead the magic BB goes out to its max range the damage is not reduced as much as a laser at max range.

Boating in general has been balanced out the developers are down to minor twicks here and there just like any game does after review of play.

You have to remember that a auto-cannon is more like a anti-tanks gun.
MG= 50 cal.
AC/2= 30mm Cannon
AC/5= 57MM
AC/10= 105mm
AC/20= 230mm cannon

auto cannons range: 30mm up to 203mm. So your not understanding that a auto-cannon is more like a anti-tanks gun with a auto load system.

Now LBX-cannons should be able to take AC 10 slugs but with a reduced range do to the snub barrel you should be able to change out shells just like you can switch out ECM to disrupt or Jam.

The Jam rate on Ultra AC should be lowered this is due to computer percentile the computer always rolls better than average its a proven fact using C++.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 10 November 2013 - 07:36 PM.

[Taemien]

Marcus VII, on 10 November 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

At the risk of coming across an *****, why do we need to sub for the devs to add client side hit detection? Why should we pay per month for them to fix bugs? I dont mean to start an argument, I sincerely want to know why..

Client Side Hit Detection opens a can of worms called Hacking. Aimbots work really easily with client side hit detection. For the same reasons that convergence, hit detection, and all that becomes easier, so do aimbots and other hacks.

This is why a Sub model would be needed. So that when people hack and get caught, they are out at least 15 bucks.

Free to Play + Client Side Hit detection means the dev team will spend all their efforts countering hacks, and thats really counter productive. This is why they've chosen Server Side Hit Detection. Hacks happen, but they have to be really sophisticated and are easier to counter and watch for.

To put it shortly, you won't see Client Side Hit Detection in a Free to Play game.

[Asbjorn Ironside]

Taemien, on 10 November 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Client Side Hit Detection opens a can of worms called Hacking. Aimbots work really easily with client side hit detection. For the same reasons that convergence, hit detection, and all that becomes easier, so do aimbots and other hacks.

This is why a Sub model would be needed. So that when people hack and get caught, they are out at least 15 bucks.

Free to Play + Client Side Hit detection means the dev team will spend all their efforts countering hacks, and thats really counter productive. This is why they've chosen Server Side Hit Detection. Hacks happen, but they have to be really sophisticated and are easier to counter and watch for.

To put it shortly, you won't see Client Side Hit Detection in a Free to Play game.

Thanks. Now I understand. I didn't know that would make hacking and etc. a lot easier. I've never used aimbots or anything so I have no idea how they work
That makes sense now. Who would hack when the risk of getting caught is losing real, invested money. Not to mention being banned.

[AlexEss]

RandomLurker, on 09 November 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

While I normally defend lasers vehemently (LLas are my favorite weapon) I have noticed a distinct failure on the HSR front recently. I actually have to aim ahead of a target to hit them most of the time. Now, holding a laser over an invisible 'lag spot' for a full second is basically impossible, so even with my experienced aim I'm dragging lasers all over the target now.

Against Assaults and other slow movers, they are as deadly as ever, but movement and HSR are kinda screwed up right now.

HSR does not by default remove the need to lead a target, it just makes sure that you know how far you need to lead once you are dialled in, before HSR this would fluctuate making it a living hell trying to hit things as you never could be sure how far ahead you needed to lead.

Now i am sure the end goal is to have it so that you never need to lead with lasers but as it stands right now that is not what it is designed to do.

[Clownwarlord]

RacerX, on 09 November 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Why does it seem that lasers are total garbage weapons now. AC seem to cut through armor like a hot knife through butter. LRMs are taking out mechs in droves. An yet when I shoot a horribly damaged mech with two Large Lasers and two Medium lasers in a red, unarmored torso section nothing happens. This isn't just one game and my aim is pretty good when the mech is shut down in 10 meters in front of me. I'm seeing this consistently in my matches. If I shoot something with twin AC/5s I'm coring folks. If I hit them with multiple lasers its like I'm shooting blanks. Is anyone else experiencing these types of issues?

Ok a few things have changed:
Energy weapons are less effective for the fact the heat penalty makes bringing the more effective energy weapons non-usable or very limited (firing 2 erppcs takes some work ... can't really fire anything else with them for an example). After that Ballistic is a better choice and loads of people are loading up on them because you have a more effective dps because less to worry about heat.

As for lrms ... well this has something I noticed lately. Some people have stopped taking ECM mechs or stay with them, and also same thing with AMS. So if you are not using your mechs abilities or few teams (mooching off ecm and ams cover ...) then yeah you get smacked. (Over all more people are not playing ECM mechs for the most part)

Last thing is hitbox detection is still not the greatest so you will have the "ooh I shot him, but no damage" moments. At least until they fix it which ... not sure where it is on the list you would have to ask the devs.

[JimboFBX]

honestly, I think when they fixed the ballistic hit detection they broke lasers.

[Ghogiel]

AlexEss, on 10 November 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

HSR does not by default remove the need to lead a target, it just makes sure that you know how far you need to lead once you are dialled in, before HSR this would fluctuate making it a living hell trying to hit things as you never could be sure how far ahead you needed to lead.

Now i am sure the end goal is to have it so that you never need to lead with lasers but as it stands right now that is not what it is designed to do.

Um... no?

[Der Hesse]

I also got the feeling something is not working with laser hitdetection. I used 4xLL very often up until some weeks ago. From one day to the other all my matches ended with only half the damage i usually did. Same with medium Lasers but its harder to recognize because they are backup weapons most of the time. But i had some strange encounters with my Jenner F too, where i did very little to no damage.
I dont use any Laserboats at the Moment and that for a good reason. Only ACs seem to register most of the Time - if your enemy isnt a Spider -.

[JimboFBX]

I had this comical bout with my spider where I had to stand still in order to do damage. not kidding, was blasting a stalker, blackjack, etc with a large laser/medium laser and it wasn't until I stood still and shot the blackjack in the back that he took some real damage and died. I was running circles around the stalker and for 2 minutes we each did virtually no damage to each other despite the fact I was blasting him with my large laser on my arm and my medium laser on my chest.

Edited by JimboFBX, 11 November 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[Bacl]

Kazma, on 09 November 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

2 Reasons: Bad Hit Detection and Beam duration.

Dont forget the heat, since lasers heat much more and are dangerous once all fired at once, the delay to have to take between shots is killing your DPS, for that simple reason lasers will never be on even ground with ballistics. I dont want to go to far here but the current heat system is goddly for ballistic but punishing for lasers. Only since MWO chaining medium lasers 1 by 1 accumulate heat.

[Roadbeer]

Bacl, on 11 November 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Dont forget the heat, since lasers heat much more and are dangerous once all fired at once, the delay to have to take between shots is killing your DPS, for that simple reason lasers will never be on even ground with ballistics. I dont want to go to far here but the current heat system is goddly for ballistic but punishing for lasers. Only since MWO chaining medium lasers 1 by 1 accumulate heat.

As I said before, DPS is an irrelevant stat when comparing two totally different attack profiles, you're talking about Direct Damage vs Damage over Time. DPS only works when comparing the two if all the damage from Energy weapons would be frontloaded on the beam, and the rest of it is just for neat graphics.

[Bacl]

Hexenhammer, on 10 November 2013 - 12:39 AM, said:

Heat.

At the game "resume the situation in 1 word", WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!

P.S. no seriously your answer made me laugh so much i just loved it, sad it is true tho...

[Bacl]

Roadbeer, on 11 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

As I said before, DPS is an irrelevant stat when comparing two totally different attack profiles, you're talking about Direct Damage vs Damage over Time. DPS only works when comparing the two if all the damage from Energy weapons would be frontloaded on the beam, and the rest of it is just for neat graphics.

Fair enough, your are absolutly right since ballistics is hit on the spot and lasers are DOt so they are hard to compare. I agree with you on that.

Now just sticking to the numbers here forgeting how the weapons do apply their damage, energy cant match the DPS of a ballistic one because there HPS is just too high. So undertsanding that + applying the fact that lasers do their damage over time unlike the canons well it one more reasons to pick up dakka agains the fancy light show... I hate maths, i m always dissapointed by the result...

[Roadbeer]

I think I said it earlier in this thread, each system has it's pros and cons.

The Pro with ballistics is that it's direct damage, and low heat. The cons are ammo limitation, explosive potential if the ammo box is breached and finite hardpoints

Energy weapons have the opposite of both the pros and the cons.

This, seems to me, like balance.