8 replies to this topic

[Xaositect]

These are three consecutive drops. I wish I were making this up. In all three scenarios, I was on Team B. On none of these was there a realistic chance for the lighter team to win on resource points because the maps are so small and the tonnage discrepancies so big.

Drop 1: Canyon Network, conquest

Team A (enemy team): AS-7D(F), AS-7RS©, AS7-D-DC, AS7-D-DC (alpha lance was a four-person, I'm sure), AS7-D-DC, AS7-K, HGN-HM, CTF-4X, HBK-4SP, AS7-D-DC, SHD-2H(P), LCT-3M
Yes, that's 7 Atlases and a Highlander on one team, 8 of 12 'Mechs being assaults on team A

Team B (my team): RVN-4X, AS7-D-DC, AS7-RS, HBK-4SP, CPLT-J, CPLT-J, TDR-9SE, LCT-3S (bravo lance was a four-person), CPLT-K2, CDA-X5, ON1-VA, JM6-FB

Team A: 8 assaults, 1 heavy, 2 mediums, 1 light
Team B: 2 assaults, 6 heavies, 2 mediums, 2 lights

Team A average tonnage: 82.08
Team B average tonnage: 62.08

Team A: 985 tons
Team B: 745 tons

240 tons/32% tonnage advantage for Team A

Result: Team A won 12-8, with the survivors being three of the four Atlases in alpha lance, none of which were even close to dying, and the Locust

Drop 2: Caustic Valley, conquest
A: STK-5M, BJ1-©, AS7-D-DC, AS7-RS©, STK-M, BLR-1S, SHD-2H(P), BJ-1, VTR-9S, TDR-5S(P), CN9-A, AS7-RS© (charlie lance very likely a four-person, first three three of the four in bravo lance probably grouped)
B: CPLT-J, TDR-5SS, SHD-2H(P), BLR-1S (alpha lance was a four-person team), ON1-K, RVN-2X, QKD-4G, BJ-1, STK-3F, STK-5M, TBT-5J, CPLT-K2

Team A: 7 assaults, 1 heavy, 4 mediums
Team B: 2 assaults, 5 heavies, 3 mediums, 1 light


Team A average tonnage: 74.58
Team B average tonnage: 64.17

Team A: 895 tons
Team B: 770 tons

125 tons/16.2% tonnage advantage for Team A

Result: Team A won 12-5, with 5 assaults and two mediums surviving

Drop 3: Canyon Network, conquest

Team A: JM6-S, TDR-9SE, CN9-YLW, BJ-1DC (at least two in this lance were in a group), HGN-733C, HGN-733C, HGN-733C, CPLT-J (in this lance first three almost certainly in a group), BLR-1D, STK-5M, CPLT-J, BJ-1

Team B: TDR-5SS, CPLT-J, SHD-2D2, BLR-1S (four-person group), CTF-IM, TDR-9SE, JM6-S, CN9-D, VTR-9S, JM6-S, JR7-F, LCT-3M

Team A: 5 assaults, 4 heavies, 3 mediums
Team B: 2 assaults, 6 heavies, 2 mediums, 2 lights

Team A average tonnage: 70
Team B average tonnage: 60

Team A: 840 tons
Team B: 720 tons

120 tons/16.7% tonnage advantage for Team A
Result: Team A won 12-1, losing only the Battlemaster

When are tonnage limits per team and per lance going to be put in? Why does the matchmaker think it's alright for one team to have an advantage of 10, let alone 20 tons per 'Mech when there isn't a huge skill differential? Sure, I've been in conquest drops where one team had a pretty big tonnage advantage and the lighter team won because the heavier team had a bunch of novice players driving their numerous assault 'Mechs, but that is an unusual exception; typically when there is such a tonnage difference, the heavier team will win the majority of the time, especially on a small map, and since most of the maps are not big enough to mitigate this (really, only Alpine Peaks and sometimes Tourmaline Desert are), being outtonned usually means your team is going to lose. It cannot be that hard to fix this. There should never be drops where one team is half or more assault 'Mechs and the other team has just two.

Edited by Xaositect, 09 November 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Mycrus]

Tonnage in itself is meaningless...

A single jenner / spider / commando can cripple and kill an atlas..

A few nights ago the match ended with 1 spider vs 1 atlas... I goaded the spider into taking out the atlas' weaponry and then to strip everything down (legs, CT)..

[Homeless Bill]

New and exciting. It's almost like they haven't put tonnage limits in yet.

[Roadbeer]

Homeless Bill, on 09 November 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

New and exciting.

Take some pride in your work man...

New and Exciting

[Murphy7]

Homeless Bill, on 09 November 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

New and exciting. It's almost like they haven't put tonnage limits in yet.

Maybe not new, butt well posted with specific information and clearly delineated points.

We used to have weight class matching back when there were far fewer choices available in each class, and yet it did work to mitigate some of the potential tonnage differential, certainly better than some of the anecdotal worst cases that matchmaker has coughed up.

What I find interesting is that the first drop mentioned, which also includes a huge disparity in ECM coverage, was in fact the closest of the three contests. I would have expected the third drop to have been the most competitive, but apparently it wasn't.

• Tonnage does offer many advantages, but it is by itself a horrible balancing mechanic
  
• Only two game modes limits our ability to offset disparity of firepower with achievable victory conditions
  
• ELO balancing needs work - its current implementation is an individually labeled stat that is really the sum of your team experiences; the more consistent your team, the truer the stat. I feel this has been setting up the situation that matchmaker is doing the worst job with the solo drop folks, and the best with people who aren't as reliant on having matchmaker fill in their team as well as the opposing team as often.

[Schrottfrosch]

dunno - but if I am with my buddy and we are piloting atlots 2 enemy Jenners are going to die quickly...

IF it was a 1 on 1 game, I would say tonnage is meaningless - you might even be better off with a lighter mech - BUT that is Solaris.

This should be a fair match with fair tonnage - "fair" meaning not 100t+ discrepancy

[Satan n stuff]

Mycrus, on 09 November 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Tonnage in itself is meaningless...

A single jenner / spider / commando can cripple and kill an atlas..

A few nights ago the match ended with 1 spider vs 1 atlas... I goaded the spider into taking out the atlas' weaponry and then to strip everything down (legs, CT)..

Unfortunately most fights aren't one on one. When you've got a bunch of teammates watching your back speed and agility are meaningless. Only armor and firepower matter. n assaults beat n anything else in straight combat.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Its pretty aggrivating to even try to play. Beside matchmaker and pug hell with premades its been nonstop 6 or 8 of the same maps in a row (saw crimson once in 2 days) or 2,3 or even six discos on opening. Just played 12v6 on one map.
Add in HSR issues and the now completely dominant AC takeover and its just painful.

I checked the digital attack map and the US is getting pummeled. That may have soemthing to do with all the discos but the rest is all on PGI.

[MadCat02]

I use to wait for 60 minutes for a Balanced match ! Thank GOd PGU lightened the chains ! I still wait about 5 minutes .

When theres not enough people Matchmaker trys to find anyone to keep Q under 3 minutes . Its a good thing !

Besides PGU announced major changes to Q .

Edited by MadCat02, 10 November 2013 - 07:25 AM.