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Evil In Mordor


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#1 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:50 AM

Rant time!
Terra Therma. Lately most maps were epic, but this one is the worst of the bunch and should be reworked. Reasons:

1. It is hot. Generally there should be maps with higher and lower HS efficiency, but we have too many with lower HS efficiency and only one (+night version) with higher efficiency. Given that energy loadouts are right now uncompetitive and can't match ballistics builds (who don't care about heat that much or don't care at all) in DPS and those subpar builds are further hurt by having heat issues on most maps, it is very poor decision to introduce lava map. It is a pain with intensity somewhere between shooting yourself in the leg and getting an arrow in the knee. Why can't lava map be cold? They are only hot when active, you know.

2. Bad design. Almost no open fields and little to no transition possible from unique corridors that run in right angle from the center ring. Basically a "sun" layout, central circle and beams comming from it. The map is too big to get to other parts of it fast, basicaly every road on this map is a bottleneck. High hills prevent JJ from being effective.

3. Size, already mentioned it. Either make it flat and big or smaller and hilly. But hills that take away travel speed, heat you so that you can fire up to 4 times per battle and then overheat AND where you can't even deploy any reliable tactics because there is simply no space for it? Yikes.

4. Players hate it. I can't play a single game on this map without someone intentionally disconnecting. For extreme cases of this please see the screen attached. We lost BTW.
Posted Image

Not only MM sucks with -1 players on both sides, but 4 players DCd simply because this map is a suffering. That doesn't mean that the map is inherently bad, but there are few things that together make this map a painful experience.

A few ideas on how to make the map better:
Don't make it so hot. We already have many hot maps, do something cooler, or at least lower the temperature a bit.
Rework the central circle. While I like the idea of a central place where both teams can fight and with a bit of imagination even attempt to flank, the circle is too far from battle. Either make it lower, add more accessible roads leading to it or provide more protection up there. Fences, barriers, or something else. Anything. Right now who gets in first wins, which is lame.
Also, the circle is in the center. While that may be fun at the first sight, why don't you change the location so that the circle woul be at top or bottom? Currently the map is too convenient, too symetric and if players would like symetric maps they wouldn't ever stop playing Bomberman in the first place.
Last idea, LOWER THE HILLS! There is no reason why they should be so high. We need them lower so that JJ can shine, so that LRMs can fly over. We need a map where we can actually set up a trap, not just round up at the nearest bottleneck.

Other than that, the map is OK. The way PGI works with space is great and general artistic vision is great too. It is just that this map is too pain to play to appreciate it.

Now you can polish your rocks and start throwing them, I expect you will. Too many players told me personaly that they hate this map to ignore the issue though, so any kind of constructive feedback is welcome.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 10 November 2013 - 02:51 AM.


#2 The Basilisk

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:15 AM

I have to admit I found some good observations in your post but....
Who do you think you are ????
With this arogant, posessive, entitlement attitude you are displaying here I would love to push out the next 3 maps with the exact features you are ranting about, if I where a dev.

Besides, It IS ..... Yes actually it is pretty much likely that you actualy WILL HAVE TO fight in a difficult sourounding that
a) favours the enemy
b ) is by itself absolutely deadly
c) is to be fought in with extreme slowlyness and coution.

So take it like a man or at least come up with some decent taktics to master this difficult environment.
I give you one thing, maps, daytime, weather conditions and so on should be selectable in a lobby. Former implementations of MW had this feature too and setting map conditions would be a nice and immersive feature to this game.
Or maps should be deselectable as *what I dont want to play under any circumstances*

Edited by The Basilisk, 10 November 2013 - 03:26 AM.


#3 Vanguard319

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:22 AM

I enjoy this map actually, the heat is only an issue if you have a mech that is not heat neutral, and matches tend to be more enjoyable since players have to consider the heat in relation to their mechs heat efficiency. Lights and mechs with low heat builds do very well on this map.

#4 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 03:46 AM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 10 November 2013 - 03:15 AM, said:

I have to admit I found some good observations in your post but....
Who do you think you are ????
With this arogant, posessive, entitlement attitude you are displaying here I would love to push out the next 3 maps with the exact features you are ranting about, if I where a dev.

Well, your suggestive question implies a response saying that I am an evil overlord whose top hobbies are torturing puppies and taking candy away from small kids. Sorry, I am a normal person and I see little to no meaning in justifying myself to your observations I didn't in my eyes do anything to feed. If I keep in your tone, tell me please, who are YOU to ask me who do I think I am?
Not really a productive topic, is it. So please, if you have issues with me, PM or tell me on NGNG TS. If my post is deemed offensive in any way, Moderators will do a short work with it :-)

View PostVanguard319, on 10 November 2013 - 03:22 AM, said:

I enjoy this map actually, the heat is only an issue if you have a mech that is not heat neutral, and matches tend to be more enjoyable since players have to consider the heat in relation to their mechs heat efficiency. Lights and mechs with low heat builds do very well on this map.

Agreed, light Mechs can do very well on this map, I've seen a few wolfpacks playing extremely well and achieving much on Terra Therma. Most enjoyable to see such cooperation, and one of the best performances I witnessed. The same goes for Jagermechs and those low heat builds you speak about. The problem is, I only rarely see these two types of Mechs making up more than half of the team, thus the problems with it. I hope devs would do a few tweaks to make this map more friendly to our slower, bigger comrades.

#5 Levon K

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:06 AM

I'm pretty sure you have to blur out the names of the participants in your screenshot.. no name and shame.

#6 SirDubba

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:07 AM

M'kay. I think we need a map like this. Terra Therma doesn't need the adjustments you want, the only thing that bothers me is the way people mostly run towards the nearest choke point and then stop, then they spend couple minutes shooting each others backs and then blame everyone for standing on their way.

This map calls for co-operation and situational awareness. It trains people to stick together and will teach brutal lessons to those who are able to see and learn.

And patience, we'll get more maps eventually

#7 Hydrophobia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:33 AM

So many times there is someone saying something along the lines of "omfg, don't we all totally hate this map guys?" and then they get a few replies along the lines of "actually i quite like it".
Personally I think it is a good map, it makes hot mechs have to play carefully or just spend half the time overheating and has a great atmosphere as a bonus.

#8 oldradagast

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 07:34 AM

My only problem with this map (aside from it being rather dark in places) is that the design seriously punishes newer players who have no real tactical sense. I understand that not all maps should be "easy" but this one is the type of map that would make new players hate the game, especially if they drop on it a bunch of times while still trying to figure things out. They'll be presented with a bleak, overly dark landscape that feels featureless (nothing but repeating hills of ash and lava), a central deathtrap area unless you understand what you're doing, and the opportunity to stand in a doorway and get shot to pieces while overheating. An advanced player can handle most of this, but new players won't have a chance.

If the game had "normal maps" and "advanced maps" Terra Therma is one that folks shouldn't see until they've played a bunch of game so they might have some idea how to handle it vs. dying painfully.

#9 JimboFBX

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:55 PM

I sold my awesome 8q because over half the time I picked that mech I would get this map

#10 Coralld

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:18 PM

I like Mordor, AKA Terra Therma, but that's usually because I make heat efficient Light and Medium mechs and I tend to be very good at controlling my heat, which is why my favorite maps so far tend to be hot ones as I enjoy watching people run their walking melt-downs and or simply have no sense of heat management.
As for the over all layout, I don't have a problem with it. I know some people have an issue with the ring around the rosy effect that appears to take place, which is why I have two tactics to counter this, both of which are simple. A: Sense every one goes right, why not have your team go left? Or B: Have your team set up an ambush at your base.

Edited by Coralld, 10 November 2013 - 01:19 PM.


#11 ShinVector

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:19 PM

Hmmmm.... Got used to Mordor.. Used to hate it because it was so hot but as a player you have to adapt right ? -_-

The only map I any issues with is Crimson Strait Conquest.... I still do not understand why 2 bases are on Gamma's side of the map.





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