28 replies to this topic

[Roughneck45]

Terciel1976, on 24 November 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

1) Holy cats, we need better documentation

+100000000000000000

[Burke IV]

You guys really beleive that FF armour trades 14 slots for like 1.65 tons? Nobody gets the logic of not combining XL engines with endo structure?

My rules of mech construction..

1, Standard armour sucks, use it when you have no choice, preferably on support mechs. LRM boats etc.
2, Endo stucture reduces hitpoints this is bad when you use an XL engine because it takes that much fewer shots to take you out of the game. Assult mechs take note!
3, XL engines must be used with care. XL + FF is just about acceptable.

How did i learn this? i watched the other players around me. I saw other noobs crying how "that player wont die" and at first glance it appeared that way. People were only too pleased to tell me how "FF does nothing cept save weight" and yet once i started to think about it, i asked myself... are PGI really that dumb? surely not? these thing are in the game for a reason right?...etc etc

Im not going to try and convince anybody, there are many exceptions to those generalisations, but those are my tips.

[TercieI]

Burke IV, on 29 November 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

You guys really beleive that FF armour trades 14 slots for like 1.65 tons? Nobody gets the logic of not combining XL engines with endo structure?

My rules of mech construction..

1, Standard armour sucks, use it when you have no choice, preferably on support mechs. LRM boats etc.
2, Endo stucture reduces hitpoints this is bad when you use an XL engine because it takes that much fewer shots to take you out of the game. Assult mechs take note!
3, XL engines must be used with care. XL + FF is just about acceptable.

How did i learn this? i watched the other players around me. I saw other noobs crying how "that player wont die" and at first glance it appeared that way. People were only too pleased to tell me how "FF does nothing cept save weight" and yet once i started to think about it, i asked myself... are PGI really that dumb? surely not? these thing are in the game for a reason right?...etc etc

Im not going to try and convince anybody, there are many exceptions to those generalisations, but those are my tips.

Well, see my above comment on the need for better documentation, but since you're the only person I've ever heard say any of this, I kinda think you're wrong.

[Bront]

Burke IV, on 29 November 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

You guys really beleive that FF armour trades 14 slots for like 1.65 tons? Nobody gets the logic of not combining XL engines with endo structure?

My rules of mech construction..

1, Standard armour sucks, use it when you have no choice, preferably on support mechs. LRM boats etc.
2, Endo stucture reduces hitpoints this is bad when you use an XL engine because it takes that much fewer shots to take you out of the game. Assult mechs take note!
3, XL engines must be used with care. XL + FF is just about acceptable.

How did i learn this? i watched the other players around me. I saw other noobs crying how "that player wont die" and at first glance it appeared that way. People were only too pleased to tell me how "FF does nothing cept save weight" and yet once i started to think about it, i asked myself... are PGI really that dumb? surely not? these thing are in the game for a reason right?...etc etc

Im not going to try and convince anybody, there are many exceptions to those generalisations, but those are my tips.

How FF works has nothing to do with what PGI things, this is how it works in lore/TT. FF has always been the inferior tonnage saver to Endo, and all it does is reduce the weight of the armor you're putting on your mech. It does NOT increase the armor.

Endosteel uses Hardpoints, not hitpoints. Internal structure is just as durable with ENdo as it is with standard internals.

XLs should be used with care though. It's not always free tonnage.

[Burke IV]

Well PGI could always clear this up once and for all. Its is nonsense to leave their players in the dark over this. What i said was based on how much damage it "feels" like i can soak up in game. I would be happy to be proved wrong if it meant the facts came out. Until such time as they do and if i ever do play again i will still build my mechs based on what i have written. FF armour feels alot more solid than standard to me, endo feels slighty weaker but not massively so. Cmon PGI your players need you, surely an online manual is sometihng that the players deserve?

Edit: another little gem it feels like if you load all your weapons onto one side of your mech it drags slightly aswell, on the torso twist. maybe im imagining it

Edited by Burke IV, 01 December 2013 - 10:11 AM.

[Bront]

For endo, they shouldn't have to clarify, as it never says it's weaker.

For FF, the description is misleading, but in order for it to work the way you think it does, it would be something different from TT/Lore/Every other Mechwarrior game in existence.

FF may feel strong because you've tweaked your Torso armor or added more doing that. Besides, why confuse the issue by not simply showing the increased protection? A point of armor is a point of armor is a point of armor.

[Motroid]

One important thing concerning ammo placement.
Ammo on your Battlemech will be used up by following priorities:

Head->CenterTorso->LeftSidetorso->RightSidetorso->LeftArm->RightArm->LeftLeg->RightLeg

So when placing NO ammo in the head and center torso you can make sure that arm/leg placed ammo will be used right away.

C.A.S.E. on STD engine LRMboats like the Stalker and the Awesome that have 6-9 tons of ammo on board is very useful and has saved my life more than once. LRM ammo explosions do excessive damage (Artemis ammo even more!) so nevermind where the ammo is placed C.A.S.E. will stop the damage from transferring to your CT. And we are talking about hundreds of damage and a multiple 10% chance on exploding due to the many critslots used by ammo only.
A single ammo explosion in my STK's foot brought the whole mech down in minute 2 of the game. Damage destroyed foot internals, then sidetorsointernals and finally cored my centertorso. So thats approx.100 dmg needed to get to the CT. Since then I always have C.A.S.E. on my LRMboats.

[Goose]

Look: High heat builds tend to force standard frames on a 'Mech, as you need the crits for heatsinks; Autocannons tend to force Endo-Steel, as you need the weight more then crits for ammo.

LRMs seem to force XLs, as you need both weight and crits for ammo.

A low tops speeds, expressed as a low engine limit on a bigger 'Mech, tends to force standard engines.

A 285 standard, and a 360XL, represent about the biggest "rule-of-thumb" engines: There are plenty of exceptions to this, but one should stop and think though once more any build exceeding these numbers.

When switching to an XL in a build, consider upping the engine rating enough to absorb the two DSHSs whoms' crits you just ate …

Feel free to shift a full- or half-ton from leg armor to engine size: This doesn't always work, but it's the way to bet …

[juxstapo]

O_O mmmmmm noo, Endo doesn't reduce hit points. Promise.

according to mah extremely tattered Tabletop Compendium:

"Units that use ferro-fibrous armor carry more Armor Points for the same weight. Calculate the normal number of Armor Points, then multiply this number by 1.12 (for Inner Sphere units) or by 1.2 (for Clan units), rounding to the nearest whole number. The result is the number of Armor points of ferro-fibrous armor. To account for the bulk of the armor, place ferro-fibrous armor in 7 critical slots for Clan Mechs and in 14 for Inner Sphere Mechs. Critical hits against slots filled by ferro-fibrous armor have no effect and should be rerolled."

Same thing with Endo, takes up 7 crit slots in Clan Mechs and 14 in Spheroid machines, critical hits against endo have no effect. However, endo-steel causes the internal structure to take up 5% of the mech's total weight instead of 10% (rounding up). Which is much more tangible improvement than .12 more points of armor. The biggest caveat being the loss of critical slots and price. If they ever put Refit and Rearm back in, gobs of people will be going back to standard armor and structure, .