298 replies to this topic

[Malino]

Hi,

Been playing a while and now we have more variety in mechs I'm seeing more and more games worthless because tonnage balance is so far out.

Whats the point of ELO when you're got a team of half lights with the remainder mediums and heavies facing off against half a team of Assaults, then heavies and mids.

Regularly I'm seeing matches with 2-300 tonnes difference between the teams. This leads to the inevitable steamrollering going on latley.

ELO, nice idea for one on one matches. Sucks for 12 -v- 12.

Mal

[Roadbeer]

Malino, on 11 November 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

ELO WORTHLESS

I disagree

[Junkman7mgte]

LMAO @ Roadbeer. You sir, are showing your age ... issue I have with that, is .... you reminded me of mine.

[Nick Makiaveli]

A group that is heavy on Lights should be able to take on the opfor and win. Now on certain maps if the enemy decides to pull base defense, well it's over. But if they rush out, then pick off a few stragglers, then hit the base. Kill off the first one or two that come back then run and look for more stragglers. Eventually you will outnumber then as well as outweigh them, then just mop up.

Will it work every time? No. But it can and when it does, it's sweet. Especially when it's against a Steiner recon company!!

[AC]

The main issue is that you can never dig yourself out of the hole with ELO. The way it was explained to me is that it is a team driven ELO system. It does not take into account your personal performance for any match, but instead only takes into account the team performance. ie.... if you get stuck with a noob team and kill 6 mechs, your ELO will go down and you will still be stuck with a noob team next match.

This is what frustrates me and tends to lead to the steam roll that we have now. You have good players and poor players all with the same ELO because of the wins and losses of the teams they have been on. So if the match maker nabs a team that has a lot of good players with low ELO and puts them against bad players with low ELO....steam roll ensues. I know this is happening because I have litterally been in matches where a player will ask questions a guy playing his first match would ask and then die with 4pts damage. This sucks for his team AND more importantly for the player. This game still has the worst new user experience of any game I have seen/played to date. The initial new user experience is what will keep PGI from attracting a large player base.

[MischiefSC]

This topic did not need a new thread.

[Roadbeer]

MischiefSC, on 11 November 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

This topic did not need a new thread.

OP had under 20 posts, I was being nice

[Nick Makiaveli]

AC, on 11 November 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

The main issue is that you can never dig yourself out of the hole with ELO. The way it was explained to me is that it is a team driven ELO system. It does not take into account your personal performance for any match, but instead only takes into account the team performance. ie.... if you get stuck with a noob team and kill 6 mechs, your ELO will go down and you will still be stuck with a noob team next match.

This is what frustrates me and tends to lead to the steam roll that we have now. You have good players and poor players all with the same ELO because of the wins and losses of the teams they have been on. So if the match maker nabs a team that has a lot of good players with low ELO and puts them against bad players with low ELO....steam roll ensues. I know this is happening because I have litterally been in matches where a player will ask questions a guy playing his first match would ask and then die with 4pts damage. This sucks for his team AND more importantly for the player. This game still has the worst new user experience of any game I have seen/played to date. The initial new user experience is what will keep PGI from attracting a large player base.

Sure you can. If you get to the point you can take out 6 mechs a match, then you should not only have enough c-bills to get all your mechs fully upgraded, but start carrying the team. Or take those upgraded mechs and head over to NGNG's TS server and jump in a pre-made. You will drag the rest of the team down somewhat and if your ELO is as bad as you imply, likely win some. Congrats you are on your way to a higher ELO.

Which of course means you will face better players and start losing again. Remember the idea behind ELO is a 50/50 W/L ratio.....

[Randalf Yorgen]

with 6 lights if you can be patient you can pick off the enemy team one a time or if they are pushing for your base, your mediums/hevies fight a delaying action while your lights storm their base. They would never get beck in time and if one or two mediums did you send out two lgiths to slw them down.

[Roadbeer]

Nick Makiaveli, on 11 November 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

Remember the idea behind ELO is a 50/50 W/L ratio.....

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 11 November 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Merc are not going to abide by this and will attempt to bring 3X the enmey's weight... Just like it is done in Canon.

[Roadbeer]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Merc are not going to abide by this and will attempt to bring 3X the enmey's weight... Just like it is done in Canon.

The thing is, isn't there supposed to be a symbiotic relationship between the Loyalists and the Mercs where when the Loyalists shift a battle line, that frees up an area where the Mercs can attack planets?

I know that CW is just barely beyond the cocktail napkin stage, but that was kind of what I took away from the Launch video.

[Zarlaren]

Right now you can bring in 12 Atlases if they are RS you can make it rain LRMS so thick it blocks out the sun. That is a 1200 ton drop. The Roflstomps is common actually.

Edited by Zarla, 11 November 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

So when a Unit like the Dragoon's Zeta Battalion moves in they have to drop with less than their all Assaults? If the Law decides to be an Assault Command in that vein why should we be unable to do so? After all if you are competitive you will at least try right?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 November 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

So when a Unit like the Dragoon's Zeta Battalion moves in they have to drop with less than their all Assaults? If the Law decides to be an Assault Command in that vein why should we be unable to do so? After all if you are competitive you will at least try right?

You lost me bro.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 11 November 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

You lost me bro.

Maybe I lost you too!

[Roadbeer]

We're going to work with some assumptions here, but this is just taken from the notes we've been given regarding CW:

Elo is designed to match you against those of equal skill +/- so, basically giving you around a 50% W/L ratio (give or take a few points)

Weight matching is designed to put a give or take equal weight comp on the field.

Combine Elo and Weight matching, lets assume that will solidify a 50% win ratio.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Loyalists are fighting to shift the battle lines in their favor, opening a pathway to allow merc units the ability to attack planets behind enemy lines. This is the symbiotic relationship between Merc units and Loyalists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If ,because of Elo and Weight Matching, Loyalists units are unable to significantly shift the battle lines, the merc units are going to be sitting around for a LONG time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 11 November 2013 - 04:58 PM, said:

We're going to work with some assumptions here, but this is just taken from the notes we've been given regarding CW:

Elo is designed to match you against those of equal skill +/- so, basically giving you around a 50% W/L ratio (give or take a few points)

Weight matching is designed to put a give or take equal weight comp on the field.

Combine Elo and Weight matching, lets assume that will solidify a 50% win ratio.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Loyalists are fighting to shift the battle lines in their favor, opening a pathway to allow merc units the ability to attack planets behind enemy lines. This is the symbiotic relationship between Merc units and Loyalists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If ,because of Elo and Weight Matching, Loyalists units are unable to significantly shift the battle lines, the merc units are going to be sitting around for a LONG time.

Sooo Because we are to heavy or to skilled we(Lyran Commonwealth or the Law) cannot advance against the enemy? How stupid is that? Seriously?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 November 2013 - 05:03 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Well, it's one of those things that's been buzzing around in the back of my head once they announced how Loyalists would work.

Well, I have the answer, but I don't think that Mudhutwarrior and Wintersdark aren't going to like it.

Premades. Elo doesn't seem to really apply when they're matching groups against each other. So, it's the premades who are going to shift the lines and open the door for mercs.

But, if weight matching removes the group cap, since there will be an equal weight comp on the field, what is the continued point of Elo except for the random lone wolves...

I may be wrong about this, either way, I'm extraordinarily confused about what the long term plans are.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 11 November 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Well, it's one of those things that's been buzzing around in the back of my head once they announced how Loyalists would work.

Well, I have the answer, but I don't think that Mudhutwarrior and Wintersdark aren't going to like it.

Premades. Elo doesn't seem to really apply when they're matching groups against each other. So, it's the premades who are going to shift the lines and open the door for mercs.

But, if weight matching removes the group cap, since there will be an equal weight comp on the field, what is the continued point of Elo except for the random lone wolves...

I may be wrong about this, either way, I'm extraordinarily confused about what the long term plans are.

So that sounds good to me, but she does not look Dark and Full of Terrors!!!!