193 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

Ngamok, on 20 November 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

LRMs are OP if no one comes to find you. If you are allowed to keep shooting at other emchs out in the open on a field, GG. The moment someone comes for you and you don't have enough back ups to defend yourself, GG. As i said before, people with ACs and PPCs will kill you faster than you kill them if both of you are out in the open and shooting at each other with your respective weapons.

LRMs are not even overpowered in that situation, as you point out two sentences later. If someone leaves you alone to pound on them with ANY weapon, it is their fault, not the weapons. If I sit there and pour lazerbeams on someone with my little locust, I will kill them eventually - that does not make any weapon I have equipped OP, it just makes the person getting killed an id10t (or very inexperienced).

Edited because id10t is apparently a naughty word...

Edited by Cimarb, 20 November 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Varik Ronain]

I heard this somewhere before on these forums about LRM boats (the catapult esp) that when it is good it is great... and when it is bad it is terrible... this is so damn true. but there are so many hard counters to LRM fire that it is not even funny. Mentioned many times the ECM, proper cover, proper movement... how easily they are avoided at long ranges etc. I just cant see how people can say they are OP..... In one game I can do 4 kills, 6 assists and 700 damage with LRM5s and the very next match because of ECM/MAP struggle to get 200 damage.

It is a very situational weapon people, please dont kill off the LRM because you hate them.. the lobby in pug matches are already filled up with people who think of us as worthless..... now if the fringes think they are OP and the other extreme fringe says they are useless and many of us think they are Ok.. then I think that spells it out pretty well.. it is a balanced weapon with many flaws and can excel in the right conditions. I played 6 matches last night and captured the screenshots of the final scores and you can see a HELL of a difference depending on the map and the luck of the PUG gods for my team mates. Damage range from like 180-700

[Bishop Steiner]

Specops12, on 11 November 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

While the damage on lrms is fine, the spread of Artemis lrms and the arc in general is getting ridiculous, most cover not twice the height of your mech seems to do nothing, and lrms will often turn around obstacles if shot at the correct angle. Please lower the firing arc to require more direct fire or something....

I seldom say this, but since LRMs are next to useless unless used en masse and with a premade, well, L2P?

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 November 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

I seldom say this, but since LRMs are next to useless unless used en masse and with a premade, well, L2P?

I have actually had a good amount of luck with clustering LRM5s on my shadow hawks, and I only PUG (solo). Someone mentioned them in another thread, and I have found that it actually works quite well for suppression, as long as you have the speed to keep people in your sweet spot (180-700m, roughly). The spread on LRM5s is much smaller, meaning you get a lot more damage in single areas, making it function like a not-so-direct AC5. You have to have a lot of missile hardpoints, with not a lot of weight, but the shads are a really good platform for it combined with their maneuverability. Add a couple lasers and/or MGs for backup weapons, and it is quite fun, at least for me.

[Novakaine]

Just stop.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cimarb, on 20 November 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I have actually had a good amount of luck with clustering LRM5s on my shadow hawks, and I only PUG (solo). Someone mentioned them in another thread, and I have found that it actually works quite well for suppression, as long as you have the speed to keep people in your sweet spot (180-700m, roughly). The spread on LRM5s is much smaller, meaning you get a lot more damage in single areas, making it function like a not-so-direct AC5. You have to have a lot of missile hardpoints, with not a lot of weight, but the shads are a really good platform for it combined with their maneuverability. Add a couple lasers and/or MGs for backup weapons, and it is quite fun, at least for me.

AMS pretty instantly eradicates LRM5. They can, en masse be semi useful. But I don't consider suppression the main focus of a weapon system.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I have found LRMs to be more useful in some applications (vs SRMs). I used to run 2 SRM4s or 2 SRM6s in my Catapult C1 (with 2LLasers and 2MLasers). I found that the SRMs (though helpful) still didn't put down the damage I needed to help compliment the energy weapons.

Since I have switched to 2 LRM10s (+Art), I feel the platform has become MUCH more viable and useful. A lot of it has come down to a different playstyle than before (a more brawler mentality with SRMs vs a Stand-Off mentality with LRMs), but the damage done by missiles alone just seems much higher.

With 12 v 12, you will almost always catch an enemy in the open with little cover around (especially after several minutes into a match). When that happens, rain down the pain.

Overall, I think the LRMs are a good choice (even PUGing), but I still tend to use them as a complimentary weapon to my arsenal and not the main focus of it. I may have a Cat C1 with 2 LRM10s, but I also have 2LLasers, 2MLasers, and an 80 kph top speed to rely on too. If I was to boat LRMs in an A1 or C4, I don't know if I would like it as much.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 20 November 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Cimarb]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 November 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

AMS pretty instantly eradicates LRM5. They can, en masse be semi useful. But I don't consider suppression the main focus of a weapon system.

3-4 is what I run on SHDs (though 5 or more is even better as there is no delay in chainfiring), and even if the enemy has AMS, a good majority of the missiles get through because AMS only does a set amount of damage per second, regardless of how many missiles are incoming. As far as suppression, I consider that the main focus for LRM5s, just like it is for AC2s and similar quick hitting weapons. The damage is great, but the screen shake and constant barrage is much more of a benefit than on slower weapons. What it allows me to do is keep a constant pounding going on the enemy, even if they do break line of sight for me momentarily. I can then continue pressing the attack or take the extra time to turn and run without allowing them to compose themselves as easily.

[Varik Ronain]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 November 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

AMS pretty instantly eradicates LRM5. They can, en masse be semi useful. But I don't consider suppression the main focus of a weapon system.

I dont agree, sure 1 AMS will disrupt 6xLRM5 for a short period of time but you will run out of AMS ammo long before a LRM boat does. I WILL fire into a talon of mechs even if they all have AMS as it chews up a ton of thier ability to counter the larger salvos from other LRM enabled mechs. Supression is an added benefit of the LRM5, but it is deadly in the right enviroment. In a game where there is no healing the ability to make it a lot harder for the enemy to target you or a teammate is priceless. I dont care what mech you have a steady stream of LRM5 will do a lot more than "distract you" it will KILL you if you dont take cover or an ECM bubble near by. Teamwork is the name of the game and if you can coordinate with your teammates you can cause a lot of damage AND supress the enemy AND deny them parts of the map that dont have proper cover.

Sure alone the LRM5 boat is pretty useless alone but if you are trying to fight alone you are doing it wrong anyways.

Edited by Varik Ronain, 20 November 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Finn McShae]

This thread is amusing, thank you everyone for a delightful morning read.

That said... I'm trying to think of the last time I was killed, or even seriously damaged by LRMS. I can't think of when, probably the last LURMAgeddon. I know that last weekend I did something stupid on Tourmaline and took a few salvos out of cover, but it wasn't difficult to find cover again and move on with my life.

LRMS are pretty useless right now, but I still stick a LRM 15 + Arty on my Orions and Thunderbolts, mostly because my quasi-OCD doesn't allow me to leave those racks empty. I just use em as throwaway weapons to push people under cover at range and actually damage foes at medium/direct fire range, along with my lasers and autocannons. I'd be better off with an AC/5, but I get stubborn with things like that.

Oh, and AMS, which used to be absolutely neccessary on any build is now an afterthought, usually because I have an extra half ton laying around and figure, what the heck.

I'm just happy we're out of LURMAgeddon (1 and 2 and... 3?).


And OP, if I saw correctly you've been playing for just a few weeks? Maybe give it a bit longer, get into the better ELOs, try some premades before you demand changes to the game?

[Burke IV]

I wonder if it goes in cycles?

LRMs are rubbish nobody uses them because they are rubbish. Nobody uses LRMs so AMS starts to be a waste of tonnage, nobody uses AMS because its a waste. Somebody runs a LRM boat into this situation and only 1 mechs got an AMS omg LRMS are OP? LRMs are now OP, AMS is now standard on every mech, wtf? LRMs are rubbish...

[Finn McShae]

That's a thought. I know I don't do 12 man drops but for my Pugging area ECM is similar. During the height of LRMs every match had at least one, often 2 or 3 DDC's running ECM plus a couple of ravens running it.

Now I only see them infrequently, and it is rare that I encounter a bunch of mechs under ECM coverage.

[Mercules]

Finn McShae, on 20 November 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

That said... I'm trying to think of the last time I was killed, or even seriously damaged by LRMS.

I can... but each time I can also point out where I made a mistake that lead to that happening.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mercules, on 20 November 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

I can... but each time I can also point out where I made a mistake that lead to that happening.

I've been killed by them. Usually from me doing something dumb, me being really damaged already, or a coordinated LRM60 lance dropping 240 lrms on me at one go. With coordinated use and spotting they can be effective, at least under 500 meters. Much further and usually they take so long to arrive the unit has broken contact or achieved cover.

But in all, they are an effective SUPPORT weapon, as they are meant to be, not creeping locust plague of dooms that incinerates everything on contact. I can't even think of the last time I added AMS, except as an afterthought.