45 replies to this topic

[Hammerhai]

The most striking example of my issues is painting a spider with 4 ml at close range and doing exactly 1 point of damage before dying.

[hoverstorm]

PGI has never ever got everything right all at once. NEVER once since HSR is introduced.

[GABONORRIS]

I usually had had pings about: 80 - 100. Since the update my ping is 110 - 700. And lagging as hell.

[Hayashi]

Ok got the video. Uploading now... since it's 5 GB it's gonna take a while. Youtube estimates ~12 hours from this post.

What's additionally useful is the comments from my teammates that from their points of view, I was hitting the friendly Locust. You can see for yourself what my aiming is like from my own point of view, and extrapolate this data to understand what is going on with our hit registration.



I'm typing this in advance, this won't make sense until Youtube finishes processing the video.

4 confirmed alpha hits on the Stalker, ~ 100 damage (5x5x4). 3 alphas on the locust = 75 damage. 1 alpha on the Firebrand, then 4 shots with 3 lasers left (85 damage). The shots at the start were generally off, so assuming zero damage on those, we're left with - 260 damage that should have been inflicted, but 148 damage actually recorded. Since we know specifically that all of the damage on the stalker hit, only 48 damage/160 actually went on target at the enemy base in spite of looking like most of them hit - and from the comments by teammate SixStringSamurai, we also know the initial 3 alphas on the Locust probably hit the friendly Locust, not the enemy one. In addition, as the crosshair also glowed red on all the shots except the second shot on the enemy locust, the player is given the feedback that all of the shots hit by the system, except according to the final calculations only 1/3 of the shots ACTUALLY hit.

Apologies to Ulketulke on the system making my shots hit him. You can see it's completely not intentional.

A closer look at when the crosshair turns red and the time it takes for my ally to back into my line of fire yields consistent results of ~1 second fire lag. Basically, on the two occasions I could possibly have shot him, he moved into my line of fire 1 second after my shot was taken (you'll also notice on one occasion I also raised the laser when seeing him coming, but from the server's point of view I would simply have shot his back, then pulled the laser up across his back). Also, every single time I fire, it takes an additional one second for the laser hit to register as shown by the reddening crosshair.

In other words, from this it seems like at 300 ping, the overall effect is that every mech is in fact 1 second ahead of where it looks like it is on my screen, friendly or otherwise. All my shots will be one second delayed, all my evasions will be one second delayed relative to their fire. By the time I see an enemy appear, he has already seen me one second prior, and likely already taken the shot. Against dual AC/20, dual gauss etc users, this is an instant kill before I have the chance to react. And should I fire the moment I see him, he would already have destroyed me by the time my client sends the 'fire 5 medium lasers' signal, so zero damage will be taken by the opponent even though it looks to me like I managed to take one final shot before being destroyed, as dead mechs can't fire. On slower, larger mechs, all attacks will already have landed on my CT before I can twist my arm to shield it.

I'm still getting 1-2 kills a match in my Locust, but this is already a basically insurmountable obstacle. The last ~20 matches or so have been straight defeats in a row, because at my ELO the game system expects me to kill 3-4 enemy mechs; if I only kill 1, they already have a 2 mech advantage. Unless the opposing team also has another high ping high ELO player, any team with me in it will lose every match. With a situation like this whereby all enemy shots hit you, but 1/3 of your shots or less hit the enemy (and may even become friendly fire), high ping players are at present a liability to their teams. Recording this made playing the game necessary, but from here on out until a patch is in place to fix this I cannot drop without being a liability to whoever I drop with - ergo, I cannot drop.

P.S. A separate report has been sent regarding the TK that happened to take place during the recording of this video, though that was not the original intention of the video. Please do limit discussion on this thread to the hitreg bug, thanks.
P.P.S While my ping is slightly less than 300ms, my packet loss is 0%, and its variance is in the single digits. It's not a variable ping or packet loss problem, but a high ping problem.

Edited by Hayashi, 14 November 2013 - 05:13 PM.

[Fuerchtegott]

In my experience, I have a nice ping (115-120) for an european player since I have a good connection to Frankfurt (follow NSA news you know what I'm talking about traffic wise). Not much Jitter either, which I would bet messes up HSR pretty well.
From an MWO point of view I sit kind of in the middle.

The more "high" ping targets I have, the better my damage gets, eg early in the morning in germany, which I expect to be a popular time for players east and far east. I can live with that, somehow, but from a sportsman point of view this is still annoying, I don't want to have an advantage in an competive game, but mwo is just grind at the moment.

When I play at night, I get less and less damage, so at night, my best choice is to put in a capmodule, hope for a large map and go capping. (And I will keep going on with that tactic, till we get EU servers or hsr works).
And this really sucks, because even when I'm just grinding cb for mechs, I don't won't to be a better ai substitut for some american kiddies. (ingame chat behavior at those times is btw the worst! even spelling is worse than at all other daytimes!)

MWO is move to america/ canada to win at the moment.
Which is somehow stupid, since I can't see how PGI is getting any profit from that crazy form of pay2win.

So please, EU/Regional servers would provide a far better experience for anyone still playing this game.
And who talks about dividing the community, and having not enough players should consider the impression tripple digit pings make on anyone who has played any kind of fps before, it's a delete this {Scrap} game immediatly sign, the baddest kind of first impression to a player a game can make.
Noone will google what hsr is supposed to do or solve, possible new audience will just delete MWO and that's the end of story.

[ShinVector]

Hammerhai, on 13 November 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

I have lost count how many times my front armour simply evaporates and I go straight from running at full speed to death screen with no warning.

I have an interesting video of this happening but it happens so, fast.. You can only see the issue on a frame by frame slow mo.
I found this death kinda odd because I wasn't able to react to it.
After the play back I realised why.

At around 7min 50s, You do a frame by frame.. You can see that I actually die before the Victor's PPC reaches me on my point of view ! It can be easily seen due to the sudden switch to the 3d person death screen.

Only after 5 frames after switching to the 3PV death screen does the PPCs reach my mech.

That Victor had a ping of 65ms.. Apparently this shows it is possible for us to be hit even before we see the shots hitting our mechs. NICE !

The video will be up in 1hr:

[GalaxyBluestar]

shin and hayashi are absolutely spot on especially about the low pingers shots not being seen. i've had numerous occasions where my armour suddenly disappears, no sound, no sight just the worst shake ever and i have no idea who nor what to retaliate against.

[ronalex1]

oh no.. pgi will set all my matches in mordor HELP!

[ShinVector]

ronalex1, on 14 November 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

oh no.. pgi will set all my matches in mordor HELP!

Soo... No wonder we haven't had much progress with hit reg and hsr.. They threw the fellar out of the building !
If only you gave them names.. but I guess this whole thread disappear if you did that.

[GalaxyBluestar]

perhaps the guy lands under a bus? isn't that the normal practice here?

[God Mech]

I'm an Aussie and love this game, though I really struggle at my 280 - 300 ping. Since a recent patch I have been getting consistent 400 - 450 ping, which moves me from the struggle category, to the unplayable. hope this is mended soon.

[JimboFBX]

I think the bandwidth requirements went up the last patch. I had to increase my bandwidth and packet rate to bring my ping down

[GalaxyBluestar]

just had a session.

i can take being headshot from out of nowhere

i can take running 2 grids worth behind the lines for cover but because uav and target decay modules are working i run straight pat my team and see the lurms hit just me like a magnet almost to death

but a face hugging jagger gets 7 shots of erppc to the face and NOTHING REGISTERS... your game's broken.

see you next patch.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 15 November 2013 - 11:06 PM.

[Mawai]

Hayashi, on 11 November 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Spectating high ping players also seems to show rather strange aiming (generally, aiming way off target), while spectating lower ping players gives more expected behaviour.

I shot a Shadowhawk earlier moving backwards in the right torso because I was expecting the hitreg compensation to then damage his centre torso at that speed. It blew off his left arm instead even though my beam never crossed that component at all. It's like the mechs are all 2 seconds off where they look like they are.

I agree on the spectating. I spectated a BJ with an AC20 firing at a close range circling Cicada ... when he fired the AC20 it wasn't even on the Cicada on my screen (maybe close to an arm) ... however, the shot killed the Cicada so clearly spectating does not reflect the state between the firing client, target and server.

On the other hand, in my opinion, the hit registration of lasers appears to be off. This is difficult to judge because they almost always do some damage ... however, cumulatively they appear to be doing 40 to 60% on average even when they seem to be on the target for the beam duration.

[ShinVector]

Mawai, on 16 November 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

I agree on the spectating. I spectated a BJ with an AC20 firing at a close range circling Cicada ... when he fired the AC20 it wasn't even on the Cicada on my screen (maybe close to an arm) ... however, the shot killed the Cicada so clearly spectating does not reflect the state between the firing client, target and server.

On the other hand, in my opinion, the hit registration of lasers appears to be off. This is difficult to judge because they almost always do some damage ... however, cumulatively they appear to be doing 40 to 60% on average even when they seem to be on the target for the beam duration.

That is when HSR works.
It sometimes works and some times it doesn't work. HSR is broken.
I believe spectator mode is closer to what the server sees, based on experience.

The more mobile the target the more problems you are going to have with HSR.

Look at this one... A jumping Quickdraw.. at 8min 20secs.
I believe my 3 PPCs shot were on target.... Yet... None, turned the cursor red so, server says no hit.. WTF ??

Edited by ShinVector, 16 November 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Kojin]

Even at 95-120 ping I've noticed a fairly obvious dip in my damage done from lasers. However, I also seemed to have noticed a pattern with regards to others' experiences and it seems to be that the more lasers you fire simultaneously the more your hit registration works. I'm wondering if the servers error check with other simultaneous events when figuring if a hit occurs or not, thus with less lasers being checked you get a higher % of error overall...

[GalaxyBluestar]

ShinVector, on 16 November 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

That is when HSR works.
It sometimes works and some times it doesn't work. HSR is broken.
I believe spectator mode is closer to what the server sees, based on experience.

The more mobile the target the more problems you are going to have with HSR.

Look at this one... A jumping Quickdraw.. at 8min 20secs.
I believe my 3 PPCs shot were on target.... Yet... None, turned the cursor red so, server says no hit.. WTF ??

your first shot in the vid was that quickdraw's left shoulder, ppc at 234M... nothing happened!!!!

Kojin, on 16 November 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Even at 95-120 ping I've noticed a fairly obvious dip in my damage done from lasers. However, I also seemed to have noticed a pattern with regards to others' experiences and it seems to be that the more lasers you fire simultaneously the more your hit registration works. I'm wondering if the servers error check with other simultaneous events when figuring if a hit occurs or not, thus with less lasers being checked you get a higher % of error overall...

LOL you fire to much then retreat to cool down and be a dead weight... fire a few or chain fire, you no hit nothing...

*clint eastwood voice* marvellous.

[Hayashi]

Kojin, on 16 November 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Even at 95-120 ping I've noticed a fairly obvious dip in my damage done from lasers. However, I also seemed to have noticed a pattern with regards to others' experiences and it seems to be that the more lasers you fire simultaneously the more your hit registration works. I'm wondering if the servers error check with other simultaneous events when figuring if a hit occurs or not, thus with less lasers being checked you get a higher % of error overall...

In running my tests I've been doing only 5 medium laser alphas in the Locust... it's still about 40% accuracy overall ish in terms of final damage.

[Smitti]

+1 for increased ping and shoddy hit detection all round since last patch. Went from usual Melbourne 250 - 270ms to 390ms consistently. Sometimes keystrokes don't even register (or lag immensely), chat messages are often never broadcast, and I now take an extra ton of AC ammo per weapon to compensate for all those faceshots that didnt even register.

It's like everyone's driving spiders

[Hammerhai]

Adding to that I can only say that on a 4G connection on the newest direct backbone from Africa
to North America with about 7 mbps bandwidth I now regularly get the lag warning indicator in combat and spectating even with only 2 enemy mechs around.

And here I have to be impolite: While I am not an IT guru the server of PGI is set up in such a way that pinging it (rather than the website) to troubleshoot this from my side is not possible either. And I had to get damn rude with support to even get that answer at the time.

Being in an uncharitable mood again, I can only say that the old PGI tradition of breaking something while fixing another issue is very alive and well. And is getting tedious, not to say discouraging. And since I am not a F2P freeloader but have done my share, don't tell me I live on an island. I will admit to being malicious enough to wish you much wasted staff time attending to the resulting support calls. Since nothing has changed, and it took major damage to the games' reputation by a very angry part of the community at launch to even get communication to improve a bit.

On the plus side, when I do enjoy a good game, it can be epically enjoyable. But less sloppiness means a lot less snark, PGI. Just saying.

And you still owe us usable joysticks. No, you are not off the hook on that. I have played with absolute axis emulation on my HOTAS, and went back to your implementation today. Even if the mouse is king, you can do a thousand times better with joysticks than the control scheme you came up with. E. Coli has more functionality than that, and mercaptan is more effective. Consider it a friendly challenge. Prove yourself.

Edited by Hammerhai, 17 November 2013 - 04:23 AM.