34 replies to this topic

[dal10]

just cap to have fun. cause having fun is what this game is about.

[Roadbeer]

Now you're just slumming for page 2.

But I agree. Have fun, that's all that matters.

[Randalf Yorgen]

9erRed, on 12 November 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

Greetings all,

In this reduced C bill era, winning from capping does nothing to earn you more Money. There is the small enticement for the cap, (very small Xp and C bill only) but not the large bonus from damage, assists and spotting. With this game being driven by the almighty C Bills.... cap wins are a loss of income for 23 other Mech's.

With the future game modes of Assault and Defend, possibly Intelligence missions, the players who are now enjoying the run to the Enemy's cap (in the first 3 mins) will have to learn to actually use that mech for it's intended role.

Role warfare is coming soon, and not fulfilling your mech's selected role will loss you Xp and C-bills. Collision and knock down is also on the way back in, so please take this time to actually learn what a scout's role is and how to manage your throttle and driving. Hopefully the voice comms issues, or the announced "Command wheel Quick Comms" will be resolved soon so you can actually relay info back to the team.

[note: Scouts operate in the dangerous role of reconnaissance for the main force, utilizing their speed advantage to complete the intelligence mission and avoid hostile weapons fire. The scouts job is to identify the enemy 'Mechs so your team can prioritize the major targets. They also can flank the enemy, get behind them to harass them or be used to draw the enemy out.]

With everything in or for your Mech's costing C Bills why would you not want to earn that lost income? (UAV, Arty, Air strike all costing around 40,000) Spotting targets for your team (yes that's using the "R" key) would earn you more than a cap, Tagging .. again more C Bills. And there are soon to be additional bonus's for using that rarely seen and difficult to use Narc.

I have nothing against light's, and have watched some amazing pilots handle their chosen ride with exceptional skill. Spotting enemies, tagging, sending intelligence, harassing the missile mech's, and wrangling out stragglers for the larger mech's to bring down.

So, please reduce the capping unless it is absolutely necessary.

Thanks,
9erRed

So.... what happens when a Faction Unit goes against a Merc Unit? The Faction unit is going to get paid no matter what so why don't they just go cap knowing that the Mercs will be out looking for ways to score more c-bills. Your point is Valid only if you leave out half the forces in the game.... and I haven't even mentioned the CLANs yet, who fight for honor and not cash and whos over riding rule of Zellbringen was created to MINIMIZE damage to everything. I think if CAPPING was an option for the Clans that if they were playing true to form, that they would go right to the cap every time. Time to start to UNLEARN what it is that you think you know because really, you have proven that you know nothing at all.

[Roadbeer]

Randalf Yorgen, on 12 November 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

So.... what happens when a Faction Unit goes against a Merc Unit? The Faction unit is going to get paid no matter what so why don't they just go cap knowing that the Mercs will be out looking for ways to score more c-bills. Your point is Valid only if you leave out half the forces in the game.... and I haven't even mentioned the CLANs yet, who fight for honor and not cash and whos over riding rule of Zellbringen was created to MINIMIZE damage to everything. I think if CAPPING was an option for the Clans that if they were playing true to form, that they would go right to the cap every time. Time to start to UNLEARN what it is that you think you know because really, you have proven that you know nothing at all.

::mic drop::

[Sephlock]

Sandpit, on 12 November 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Just because you don't get "enough" c-bills for it doesn't make it unacceptable or give you, or any other player, the right to berate, ridicule, or harass someone who does it. Period. There's no other discussion on the topic when it comes down to that.

Now, if you want to post your opinion on it and give ideas to the devs on how to change the cap mechanism, increase rewards for capping, etc. THAT'S acceptable and far from a QQ

Do you see the difference?

Not once have I said anything about my opinion on the cap mechanism. I have stated that it's viable and legal and you (nor anyone else) have any right to grief, tk, leg, or otherwise attack a player. See the difference?

It's like that twilight zone episode with the bomb shelter. In an atmosphere of scarcity, men revert to savage beasts!

[Zerberus]

Sandpit, on 12 November 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Now can you imagine being the dev team trying to "balance" the game to make everyone happy? ...

Simple, remove all the weapons and mechs and just have the C-bills and XP flow in regular intervals while watching twitch streams pof the Devs playing. Boring as ****, but perfect game balance.

And lets be honest, it`s the ONLY rationally viable way to make (almost) everyone feel the same about the game... Just not sure "Happy" is the right expression

[Geek Verve]

Sandpit, on 12 November 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Just because you don't get "enough" c-bills for it doesn't make it unacceptable or give you, or any other player, the right to berate, ridicule, or harass someone who does it. Period. There's no other discussion on the topic when it comes down to that.

Now, if you want to post your opinion on it and give ideas to the devs on how to change the cap mechanism, increase rewards for capping, etc. THAT'S acceptable and far from a QQ

Do you see the difference?

Not once have I said anything about my opinion on the cap mechanism. I have stated that it's viable and legal and you (nor anyone else) have any right to grief, tk, leg, or otherwise attack a player. See the difference?

"Enough" C-Bills?? Relatively speaking, it gives you hardly any at all.

Again, you hang your hat on the fact that it's legal and by design (I can't fathom how you can consider it "viable"). That's a very weak position in practically any debate.

[Ari Dian]

Bilbo, on 12 November 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

So.... Can't win with a cap on Assault.... Can't win with a cap on Conquest. Is there ever a time when a win by cap is ok?

If you ask the right question, you will get the right answer.

[Sandpit]

Zerberus, on 13 November 2013 - 02:52 AM, said:

Simple, remove all the weapons and mechs and just have the C-bills and XP flow in regular intervals while watching twitch streams pof the Devs playing. Boring as ****, but perfect game balance.

And lets be honest, it`s the ONLY rationally viable way to make (almost) everyone feel the same about the game... Just not sure "Happy" is the right expression

Hence the thread linked in my signature lol

Geek Verve, on 13 November 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

"Enough" C-Bills?? Relatively speaking, it gives you hardly any at all.

Again, you hang your hat on the fact that it's legal and by design (I can't fathom how you can consider it "viable"). That's a very weak position in practically any debate.

No, the fact that you justify breaking the rules because someone else playing within the rules isn't playing the way you want them to is a very weak position

[Vodrin Thales]

Geek Verve, on 12 November 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Huh?? Who said anything about exploits? And if you haven't heard any of the *many* reasons against early capping, then you're just refusing to pay attention. It's been covered ad nauseum.

Let me simplify it for you. Base capping and ghost heat are both intentional game design elements. Therefore, statements such as, "Capping is perfectly viable and legal. If you want to cap, go for it. That's all that SHOULD need to be said about it." indicate that they must be either both or neither acceptable game elements.



Well, I guess we disagree there as well, because at least then there will be some reason for doing it. That alone would be a game changer.

By your logic, every complaint about this game - even those expressed by yourself - amounts to QQing.

If you don't like early capping, defend your base. It's easy enough to set up a killbox around the cap point and punish anyone rushing to the cap. River city is the map with the most caps on it and it's still pretty easy to prevent when that is your goal. I just don't understand all these players complaining about quick caps and refusing to do anything to prevent it.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Reference the reply from Randalf Yorgen.

Information about Faction Players or the Clan elements and how they earn C-Bills, Xp, Loyality has not been released at this point. Inferring that they "get paid anyways" would only be a guess, The Clan Factions would probably be working in the Xp and Loyalty/Honor brackets as there Mech's may be variant load-out fixed and provided by the Clan (if available) [but again only guessing]


-For the original post-

Is it or when is it a good time to cap:
Ok, on to this capping objective we have now and if it's being used tactically or just being rushed at to gather a win. I fully understand the tactics of using a cap warning to draw away front line elements or cause the enemies lights/fast Mech's to "leave their current battle" and move somewhere else. Using the cap warning as a yo-yo effect during the battle can cause your enemy to become quite distracted and start to loose situational awareness. All excellent physiological effects to throw on your enemy. But sending 1/2 to a full lance straight to the enemy's cap, in the first few minutes, severely reduces the Company Commanders firepower confronting a full enemy push. Yes some of them may now turn around, but for that few minutes they are all still there it can be devastating. (8 against 12, that's not even good Clan odds.)
- It has been suggested before that a timer be placed on the drop count down clock, something like "no cap can take place within the first 8 min.'s". This would allow fast mech.'s to do what they do best, flank, reposition, harass, intel. gathering, and still leave time for the Cap call when required. -

For the Defend your base option:
Does the Company Commander slice off a full lance to provide base defence against what may be a single light? Reduce his now front line to 8 mech's which could be up against 12 combatants? "First rule of Command - Always maintain a reserve" It may be of tactical use to have one lance held back and available for area's that need immediate support, if that lance was fast enough to get where they are needed, in time.
All this requires co-ordination and communication, which we are solely lacking at this time. When and if mission drop times are extended and true tactics can be employed on maps all this may change. (command orders wheel or macro key commands need to be here now, without quick orders, pug match's can lack direction or co-ordination.) I have seen many match's where if only the remainder of the company had known what was happening on the other side of the map everything could have changed. (and stopping to type in reports will not work)


Planetary battles: (is there even a cap? - speculation at best.)
Lets set an example drop mission in the future version of this game for a Faction player, they are either defending a location or moving to secure something they don't have or recently lost. (Border clash's and that as of yet unknown "Invasion")

The defend scenario would not have a Cap for the faction players, they would either have to destroy or drive off the attacking elements. If the Faction players are eliminated the attacking force would win the battle and assume control of the Defended area. (to be fought over again against any attacking units.) Part of the planetary conquest and garrisoning units. [briefly mentioned by Bryan]

The faction players would not be running to a cap, there may be no cap, tactics now require defensive strategies. Player earned Xp and loyality points would/might be earned, possibly salvage which would go to the factions House. (might even be some C-bills in it for creating that salvage)

Same would happen for Merc's or Clan's attacking, either destroy defenders, are destroyed, or withdraw. The defenders have no where to go.

- The Dev.'s have mentioned that active Base or positional defences are being worked on, so hopefully that will aid the Defender in this type of action. -

[A small aside here: Currently we have no option but to cap or destroy everything, more options would be better. I would like to see an "Out" for a nearly decimated defending unit, a way off the battle field that at least save's face and allows a "tactical retreat". Preserving what little you have left of mech's and pilots. Possibly a Company Commanders "Concede the ground to the Opponent" order.] Some of the Books and stories relate to Merc's and Clans allowing combatents to leave the battlefield after the target or area had been captured. (Merc's could have been contracted to secure a location not hunt down every last defender, requiring extra pay for that. Clans, it could go either way. Not accounting for the "Bondsman" captive.]

All for now,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 13 November 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Geek Verve]

Sandpit, on 13 November 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

No, the fact that you justify breaking the rules because someone else playing within the rules isn't playing the way you want them to is a very weak position

Never once did I do so. Perhaps you can offer a rebuttal that is actually relevant to the conversation?

[Sandpit]

Geek Verve, on 13 November 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Never once did I do so. Perhaps you can offer a rebuttal that is actually relevant to the conversation?

True, I apologize for saying you personally advocate that (I actually got you mixed up with a few others in one of the meany thread I think we're up to 9? on this subject) but my other points still stand.

[Randalf Yorgen]

I thought I had replied to 9eRed, guess not. well I'll keep it simple

http://www.pcgamer.c...fare-expansion/

give it a read and tell me what it says to you.

[Geek Verve]

Randalf Yorgen, on 14 November 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I thought I had replied to 9eRed, guess not. well I'll keep it simple

http://www.pcgamer.c...fare-expansion/

give it a read and tell me what it says to you.

It says to me that there will finally be a logical reason to win the match, regardless of how you do it. A 0-0 cap will be just as celebrated at a 12-0 massacre. I look forward to it. This whole topic will be moot at that point.