43 replies to this topic

[Mokou]

Alistair Winter, on 12 November 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Forget game balance, forget pinpoint accuracy, forget alpha damage. The correct answer is: because PGI doesn't want us to boat. Whether you're boating ballistics, boating lasers or boating missiles, you're making PGI cry.

I still boating ballistic (3 ac2 is enough hot and dmg), i still boating missiles (4xALRM15, 60 missiles is enough for every one).
But, but!... use stock 9M or 8Q AWS build is bad thing.

[Heffay]

Mokou, on 13 November 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

I still boating ballistic (3 ac2 is enough hot and dmg), i still boating missiles (4xALRM15, 60 missiles is enough for every one). But, but!... use stock 9M or 8Q AWS build is bad thing.

You can use the stock builds just fine. You just have to stagger fire.

What's so complicated about that?

[Mokou]

Couse "stagger fire" on AWS = u use only 2 PPC.
If i must wait 0.5 sec to shoot 3th PPC, i'l better take 2LL.
AWS is damn wide mech, only one tactic for him: aim->alpha->twist torso->wait cd->aim->alpha.
With 2ppc limit i can shoot only 2ppc or soon i will die. Couse i cant twist torso without move arm.
Oh yeah, if my mech not on aim i can "stagger fire". Yeah assault mech can't fight alone against other mechs.

Edited by Mokou, 13 November 2013 - 07:26 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Mokou, on 13 November 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

I still boating ballistic (3 ac2 is enough hot and dmg), i still boating missiles (4xALRM15, 60 missiles is enough for every one).
But, but!... use stock 9M or 8Q AWS build is bad thing.

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying that's what they're trying to prevent.

And don't underestimate the power.... of the stock AWS-8Q.

[Spike Brave]

I see a lot comments about the two large laser cap. While large lasers do less damage than PPCs and large pulse lasers do more Also both LL and LPL generate less heat and have a faster cycle time. I believe the cap is two keep those weapons on equal footing. Also if you want a high alpha energy build try using two LPL and two PPC. I have been successful running Awesomes with that build.

Also you don't see many Awesome due to the way the chassis is modeled. The torsos are huge and its difficult to to protect them with the arms of the machine. Many people don't play them because of that.

[Koniving]

Sephlock, on 12 November 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

They want to encourage hideous franken builds, ala the trial mechs.

The way I figure it, I only need to wait a few more patches before I can official declare the beginning of the Era of Taste the Rainbow!

(Am I dreaming or was the max engine size for all Hunchies 260? Since when was it raised?)

It was raised, and the twist of some mechs (the 4G especially) can make a Catapult jealous.

Also here's a rainbow rig for you. This was a pointless video to allow people to visually see the different beam lengths.

[Mokou]

Yeah yeah 2xGAUSS is ok, its TOTALY OK 30 dmg alpha is ok.
ERPPC is to damn hot weapon for close range. 45 just for 30 dmg, nooooo~ we need more.

Even chain fire 3xERPPC is too damn hot.

Edited by Mokou, 13 November 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Warblood]

OP, if u want a good 8Q try this.. (this is a heat skill mech)
1ppc, 2LL, 2LPL, ams, n 18DHS w/ xl 300eng,
modules should have coolshots...
all front torso parts should have 75-80% of total armor..

now this is not brawler.. but rather a heavy laser support mech.. ( it can do toe-to-toe, but heat is an issue)
you'll want to wait for others to engage first, then either come out from the side an alpha the first guy u see in front of u or use an atlas or another assault mech as a big shield an pop in/out from behind them an engage the target.. idea is to keep some friends n cover close by..

as we all now the 8Q runs hella hot!! an there're a few stages u pray u don't get when u take this guy out..
ex: u get 65% heat on caustic valley for an alpha if that's your first attack w/ this build..

so because this guy run so hot you'll always want to alpha first then cool shot, then start a chain fire rotation..

I keep the LLs n LPLs on chain fire..to hot to fire 2LL or LPLs at the same time.. but if I need to shoot both then ill just dub-tap the trigger to shoot both..

I would post some pic's of the build but I cant seem to figure out how to

Edited by Warblood, 13 November 2013 - 11:52 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Heffay, on 13 November 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

You can use the stock builds just fine.

You have a definition of "just fine" that I don't share.
You have to fire on average every 10 seconds, plus stagger fire, why a customized and optimized build will be able to achieve more damage output (possibly with less weapons but more heat sinks.) That doesn't sound "fine" to me.

[Heffay]

MustrumRidcully, on 13 November 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

You have a definition of "just fine" that I don't share.
You have to fire on average every 10 seconds, plus stagger fire, why a customized and optimized build will be able to achieve more damage output (possibly with less weapons but more heat sinks.) That doesn't sound "fine" to me.

So if you have to customize your load out to be optimized anyway, what's the issue with customizing it for optimal load out? You want stock builds to be the optimized ones? Shouldn't they follow canon for that variant even though they weren't even optimized in TT rules?

[MustrumRidcully]

Heffay, on 13 November 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

So if you have to customize your load out to be optimized anyway, what's the issue with customizing it for optimal load out? You want stock builds to be the optimized ones? Shouldn't they follow canon for that variant even though they weren't even optimized in TT rules?

I want stock mechs to work about as good or bad as they did in the original game. The Awesome is not a bad mech in the table top game, it deserves its name there.
Or no stock mechs at all and instead have mechs that are out of the books decently designed for the game we're playing. (Kinda a bit like PGI is now doing with Champion Mechs, but they are still selling us TT configurations, too, and base their mechs on those configs.)

[Mokou]

Warblood, on 13 November 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

OP, if u want a good 8Q try this.. (this is a heat skill mech)
1ppc, 2LL, 2LPL, ams, n 18DHS w/ xl 300eng,
modules should have coolshots...
all front torso parts should have 75-80% of total armor..

Actually i didn't have any 8Q, sold it.
I have only 9M.
BUT!
I don't want laser 8Q or 9M, i want to 8Q/9M can just alpha with their stock 3x(ER)PPC.
If i want a laser mech i will buy some stalker.
Stock 8T is ok, just add DHS+Artemis every mechs can work with their stock builds+some upgrades. Except one HBK and two AWS. PGI just kill awesome like powerfull PPC mech.

[Mercules]

Mokou, on 14 November 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Actually i didn't have any 8Q, sold it.
I have only 9M.
BUT!
I don't want laser 8Q or 9M, i want to 8Q/9M can just alpha with their stock 3x(ER)PPC.
If i want a laser mech i will buy some stalker.
Stock 8T is ok, just add DHS+Artemis every mechs can work with their stock builds+some upgrades. Except one HBK and two AWS. PGI just kill awesome like powerfull PPC mech.

Translation:

Want hit button
Make big boom
Why me shutdown

[Mokou]

Mercules, on 14 November 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Why me shutdown

But i am not shutdown.

[Scromboid]

FWIW, I think the question is not "How is this happening in game", but more of "Why did PGI decide to do this"?

Am I right?

Also, FWIW, I do not miss 6 PPC stalkers....

[KharnZor]

This thread....i dont even

[Bagheera]

Sephlock, on 12 November 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

(Am I dreaming or was the max engine size for all Hunchies 260? Since when was it raised?)

Not dreaming. It used to be 260, but it got increased to 275 sometime between late July and Mid September. (was the old max when I left for a long work thing, and was the new max size when I returned).

Not that it makes much of a difference. 4P is still neutered by ghost heat, 4SP is still neutered by ****** SRMs, and the 4G runs best with a std250 anyway, fitting the 275 with an AC20 forces too much sacrifice for my taste. No one drives the 4J, and the 4H is best built like a 4G, so similar engine size.

Koniving, on 13 November 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

It was raised, and the twist of some mechs (the 4G especially) can make a Catapult jealous.

Hunchie always had the best twist/arm, well combined anyway, arc:



That image is pretty old, I think before some of the cats got twist nerfed. Did they add twist/arm tweaks that I missed while I was gone as well?

Edited by Bagheera, 20 November 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Amsro]

KharnZor, on 15 November 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

This thread....i dont even

Pretty sure lots of my builds should melt due to Ghost Heat, but I use em anyway. Half a second can't nerf me!

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mokou, on 14 November 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

Actually i didn't have any 8Q, sold it.
I have only 9M.
BUT!
I don't want laser 8Q or 9M, i want to 8Q/9M can just alpha with their stock 3x(ER)PPC.
If i want a laser mech i will buy some stalker.
Stock 8T is ok, just add DHS+Artemis every mechs can work with their stock builds+some upgrades. Except one HBK and two AWS. PGI just kill awesome like powerfull PPC mech.

Finally, you admit it isn't about rules or consistency, but a selfish desire to have what YOU want.

Also, do 3 ERPPCS all weigh the same as the other weapons? Take up the same amount of crit slots? Don't forget ammo for the AC/10.

Oh and just ignore that ammo can explode, so that needn't be a balancing factor ether.

[Aim64C]

Nick Makiaveli, on 24 November 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Finally, you admit it isn't about rules or consistency, but a selfish desire to have what YOU want.

Also, do 3 ERPPCS all weigh the same as the other weapons? Take up the same amount of crit slots? Don't forget ammo for the AC/10.

Oh and just ignore that ammo can explode, so that needn't be a balancing factor ether.

Honestly, you should try and make this a little more difficult.

I got bored one day, and decided that I'd just make a 'stupid' mech with an AC10,AC5, and AC2. Sure - I had to drop to a small standard engine - but the design worked surprisingly well. I went ahead and tried three AC5s in their place - and came out with quite the effective direct fire support mech. Not quite like a 2-gauss Jager, mind you - but somewhat better in its own way (had much higher DPS ratings).

One of my first matches with the design (and I rarely use autocannon based designs) - I went through a whole team, doing some 800 damage and 7 or 8 kills. Granted - it averaged out to around 4 kills a match after a while.

There is a reason you hardly see PPCs on the field, anymore. The introduction of much hotter maps into the cycle list, for one; the fact that ballistics are currently superior is another.

This is exactly what I said would happen with the introduction of 'ghost heat.' "Whack-a-build" and "wheel of stupid" regarding the emergence of 'overpowered' designs and weapons that become imbalanced at some extreme implement or another.

The biggest problem with the PPC, before, was that PGI took the worst possible idea for heat and utilized it. Higher heat capacity goes against the whole point of heat management and is what allowed for the insane 'ppc boats' that we railed against six months ago.

But... I don't even know why I'm talking.

I should just start demanding trials of grievances and making all of them to the death. It'd be more productive in the long run.