10 replies to this topic

[akakiwu490]

I have a random question about this particular sourcebook. I've gotten a hold of a bunch from a friend who used to--but stopped--playing TT. I've been reading them just for the lore and the flavor.

I've been lurking the forums and from what I can tell the Dark Age or Era or whatever and Jihad Eras are a bit contentious. But this post is, I hope, not one that need be sidetracked into a random "Jihad era sucks" post. Please avoid doing so.

As a side note, I love conspiracy theories in fiction. In real life I have no taste for them beyond some occasionally entertaining reading.

But in a fictional universe like BT it is super interesting. For one, we've seen some huge conspiracies abound. The real identity of Anastasius Focht and the whole Marik thing come to mind. So not only is it more plausible in-universe, but it is fiction to begin with so there is kind of an "anything goes" atmosphere. As such, that part of me that loves the weird, loves the mystery, is really into some of these weird conspiracies in the sourcebook.

See spoilers section for description of two parts of the sourcebook I'm most interested in. Though I thought the whole thing was cool.

Spoiler

The ones that I think are most interesting are the hyperspace related ones. The first one being ships that come out of a jump in a different time, the second being the WoB ship that trains Manei Domini inside a star.

Both of those are pretty wild and out there, and yet while game-changing (in many senses of the word) are uncontrolled enough to not actually have long-term effects. That is to say, the lack of control of the former and the unknown method of accomplishing the latter make it impossible to replicate the phenomena, and thus the universe as a whole is not suddenly going to change into some weird bs. Yet at the same time, it is really interesting to think of some of the storylines that could be written including these kinds of things.

I am curious, first and foremost, whether or not any of the sourcebooks contemporary to this one or coming out since have touched on some of the conspiracies. That is, the whole sourcebook is published in a way that it is written by a bunch of conspiracy theorists, despite the compelling evidence. Is this sourcebook written off in latter sourcebooks as just more conspiracy ********, or did the things that happened in it actually happen and are they a part of canon?

My next question is more of participation: if you, like me, love the weird and strange, what was your favorite part of this sourcebook? Are there any other wild conspiracies or events that are similar to those in the book that come to mind? I'm really curious.

Edited by akakiwu490, 12 November 2013 - 08:22 PM.

[dal10]

ship inside a star?

[Karl Streiger]

akakiwu490, on 12 November 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

I am curious, first and foremost, whether or not any of the sourcebooks contemporary to this one or coming out since have touched on some of the conspiracies. That is, the whole sourcebook is published in a way that it is written by a bunch of conspiracy theorists, despite the compelling evidence. Is this sourcebook written off in latter sourcebooks as just more conspiracy ********, or did the things that happened in it actually happen and are they a part of canon?

there is another conspiracie source books - regarding the Bounty Hunter
And in the Blake Dokuments there are some theorems too (who is Devlin Stone, what happen to Clan Wolverine - and why)

Most other SourceBooks - can devided into:
Era Reports (great for a accurate overview)
Field Manuals - some of them are good some are dry (SDLF FM - hundreds of pages of units -> look like more units as in all house FM together)
JHS - interesting style - like conspiracies - a collection of "lore" description, excerpts from interviews, breaking news, description of vids etc.

BT:
i don't like that special void conspiracy -> to complicated. Manei Domini were made and trained on one of the 5 hidden worlds - although that ship inside a planet would describe why MD are even allien to other WoB units.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 November 2013 - 02:11 AM.

[RedDragon]

Quote

The ones that I think are most interesting are the hyperspace related ones. The first one being ships that come out of a jump in a different time,

Well I don't have that particular Sourcebook, but it is often referenced throughout BT-lore that hyperspace jumps actually mess with the time continuum, i.e. ships arrive a measurable amount of time (but only a few (mili?) seconds on their destination before they left their original position. I don't know if that is the phenomenon you read about, but if so, that is no conspiracy but a hard (if unexplainable) in-universe fact

Never heard about that ship inside a star though.

[dal10]

this makes me curious.

[Strum Wealh]

RedDragon, on 13 November 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Well I don't have that particular Sourcebook, but it is often referenced throughout BT-lore that hyperspace jumps actually mess with the time continuum, i.e. ships arrive a measurable amount of time (but only a few (mili?) seconds on their destination before they left their original position. I don't know if that is the phenomenon you read about, but if so, that is no conspiracy but a hard (if unexplainable) in-universe fact

Where/when is that referenced?

I can understand BT-style FTL (and most others, for that matter) allowing a ship to jump far enough from point A to point B such that an observer between them could (eventually) observe images of the same ship from two different locations (as the light reflected off of the ship from both locations reaches said observer simultaneously).

Also, K-F Drives apparently produce a pre-arrival "IR bloom" such that "Explorer Corps (pg44, published 17 years ago) notes that the IR signature is a matter of 'seconds to minutes' prior to the JumpShip's arrival" (source; both that thread and this one are interesting reads on the subject).

RedDragon, on 13 November 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Never heard about that ship inside a star though.

dal10, on 13 November 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

this makes me curious.

This intrigues me as well.

[Spokes]

Accidental time travel is a thing in the BattleTech Universe. The MechWarrior "Living Legends" campaign involves an SLDF unit that suffers a misjump that sends them 300 years into the future.

http://www.amazon.co...+living+legends

[akakiwu490]

Strum Wealh, on 13 November 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Where/when is that referenced?

I can understand BT-style FTL (and most others, for that matter) allowing a ship to jump far enough from point A to point B such that an observer between them could (eventually) observe images of the same ship from two different locations (as the light reflected off of the ship from both locations reaches said observer simultaneously).

Also, K-F Drives apparently produce a pre-arrival "IR bloom" such that "Explorer Corps (pg44, published 17 years ago) notes that the IR signature is a matter of 'seconds to minutes' prior to the JumpShip's arrival" (source; both that thread and this one are interesting reads on the subject).

Actually Jihad Conspiracy Theories covers the topic when it discusses hyperspace anomalies. Basically some weird stuff that gets technical, but yes you can, in theory alter arrival time as well. The reason I mentioned the "not being game-breaking" is because the sourcebook I'm referencing seems to imply that nobody can/will ever control that, and that misjumps are the only way for that to happen.

Some suggestions for the gamemaster are putting the SLDF in front of clans and seeing how they'd react to them. How would the clans react if they were reviled by the SLDF who they revered so much? Etc. It opens up some fascinating ideas. Interesting bit about MW:LL as well.

Quote

This intrigues me as well.

I'll sum up the bit about the Manei Domini and the ship inside star. It'll be inside a spoiler for those who wish to read the (better written) source material.

Spoiler

Basically within ComStar they start noticing that WoB ships are like disappearing at random places. They'll be in a system then disappear from the system but not be in any other systems.

ROM sends an agent in a crate aboard a WoB ship that has done this before. Eventually he notices that they enter hyperspace and feels the familiar--but weird--sensation that you feel for a split second in all jumps. Except it keeps going.

So the box, which was automatically set to wake him up from an induced coma/death when he arrives at a destination not on the flight plan, pokes him with some antidote. He gets out of the box and starts wandering around. But he is slowly going mad because basically the dimensions are all messed up. He walks into obstacles that don't exist, moves in what he thinks is one direction but goes the other.

Eventually he tries to get somewhere (I think from his small docked dropship to the main jumpship) and ends up in a surgical room where a bunch of aspirants for Manei Domini get implanted with their ****. He sees some bigshot MD guy talking to the captain and they see him. He shoots for the captain's leg or something but because of hte messed up physics his scattergun blows her guts apart. The MD guy does the typical "bad guy monologue ****".

He explains they do the surgical alterations in hyperspace and that doing so weeds out the weak. They do it here also because no regular, unaltered human mind can handle the messed up physics and stuff without going mad. He knocks him out and wakes the ROM guy on the bridge. They are at the gravity well or hyperspace version of a star. Some of the aspirants go into some thing inside the star in which they have a giant ball and gauntlets that use gravity to move it around. They do some typical crazy faction fight to the death stuff.

But then it gets weird. The ball splits some guy in half--somehow--and instead of being a giblet feast in the room, the wounds seal up with skin. He sees this go on. He decides to try to bring the ship back to normal space. He jumps and manages to hit the button but gets attacked somehow. The MD guy gets a hole shot in him or something and the inside of the hole becomes smooth skin.

The framing device for this story is an interview with said, surviving, ROM agent in an insane asylum. He has an eyepatch from where he got hurt. At the end of the framing story he asks the interviewer to remove the straight jacket. Interviewer does, and then the ROM guy pulls eyepatch up to reveal smooth skin where his empty socket should be. Then he looks at the interviewer with the eye on his back or something.

Basically the way the sourcebook frames it is that this is a story told by the guy and it could be true or it could be delusions. The implication is that it is kind of true, and it also explains how WoB did those enhancements without getting noticed but in a way that isn't as "mundane" as hidden, uncharted planets. (Said uncharted WoB worlds are the first entry in Jihad Conspiracy.)

Like I said, it's some weird, fascinating stuff. I think the BT universe wouldn't be hurt by the occasional inclusion of non-gamebreaking things like this.

[Karl Streiger]

akakiwu490, on 13 November 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Basically the way the sourcebook frames it is that this is a story told by the guy and it could be true or it could be delusions. The implication is that it is kind of true, and it also explains how WoB did those enhancements without getting noticed but in a way that isn't as "mundane" as hidden, uncharted planets. (Said uncharted WoB worlds are the first entry in Jihad Conspiracy.)

But the technology of uncharted planets must be available - the republic using the same technology some how creating the fortress republic.
Reminds me that i have to scan/read the FM 3145 and era report 3145 again

[Steven Dixon]

I actually enjoyed the conspiracy theories in BT lore as well. Early on they were one of the reasons I was interested in learning more about the lore and purchasing more of the novels. Of course the Anastasius Focht thing was answered long ago and the Wolverine mystery more recently and so was the bounty hunter and several others. The Devlin Stone mystery is still somewhat up in the air (even if I have my own theory) and its one of the few reasons I'm interested in reading about Stone at all. In the Dark Ages they added in who caused the blackout and a few other things but I haven't read much on the Dark Ages.

My guess is that the hyperspace story in Conspiracy Theories was just sort of a one shot mystery and not something that will really be delved into later. But it was still interesting and I enjoyed reading the story.

These crazy conspiracy theories are fun to theorize about and discover, its sort of like the TV show Lost, but just like Lost while you want to know the answer its always a little disappointing when you do. Its actually one of the reasons I also really got into the lore of FASA's other major game Shadowrun which is filled with mysteries.