15 replies to this topic

[ownka]

So a few months ago, after consumables were added, I stopped playing MWO because I didn't like the way the game was going. I had planned on coming back and playing at least one game every month or so, just to see how things are going. Through closed beta, and into a good portion of open beta, this game fascinated me, and the promise of an online, functional mechwarrior title was worth putting my money in for the founders program. Over the last few months, by and large the game had become more balanced, and as a whole I have to say PGI has done well.
The reason why I have not come back to play this game on a daily basis has been the stormcloud looming in the distance that they called Project Phoenix. Any self respecting theorycrafter (or whatever title you'd appy to such a thing in this game) can glance at many of the Phoenix mechs and see the issue. By and large they are the -best- in their category. At the moment, we have the battlemaster, which as a whole seems to be a victor with more hardpoints and a smaller hitbox and the shadowhawk, which if you compare to the centurion or the hunchback just makes old mediums seem irrelevant.
In the timeline of this game, the developers have gotten continuously more and more bordering on pay to win. As a self professed medium pilot who has studied up on the shadowhawk a fair bit, I can honestly say I could make a better mech out of it than I can make out of any other medium. I know this is not golden bullets and I understand that eventually project phoenix mechs will be f2p. On the same note, eventually there will be a new project phoenix. It would actually be more economically feasible for a gamer who wants to have the best toys to just buy a non-f2p game than to keep up with the treadmill of premium content that PGI is designing. In my opinion, paying money gives you a definite advantage over people not paying money (regardless of grinding), which to me is P2W. However, with PGI continuously upping the ante in this department, when will the community as a whole draw the line? I've spoken with my words and with my wallet. I do not know if PGI is listening but I hope they are.
If PGI changes course, and shies away from making this game P2W, I will come back and buy paint, cosmetics, mechs, etc., and I know there are others out there. I just hope they do it before MWO loses too many more players.

[Macster16]

I don't have any of the Phoenix mechs, but from what I can see, with the exception of the Shawk, they're pretty poorly tiered in their respective classes, especially the locust which is downright trash.

[akpavker]

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

So a few months ago, after consumables were added, I stopped playing MWO because I didn't like the way the game was going. I had planned on coming back and playing at least one game every month or so, just to see how things are going. Through closed beta, and into a good portion of open beta, this game fascinated me, and the promise of an online, functional mechwarrior title was worth putting my money in for the founders program. Over the last few months, by and large the game had become more balanced, and as a whole I have to say PGI has done well.
The reason why I have not come back to play this game on a daily basis has been the stormcloud looming in the distance that they called Project Phoenix. Any self respecting theorycrafter (or whatever title you'd appy to such a thing in this game) can glance at many of the Phoenix mechs and see the issue. By and large they are the -best- in their category. At the moment, we have the battlemaster, which as a whole seems to be a victor with more hardpoints and a smaller hitbox and the shadowhawk, which if you compare to the centurion or the hunchback just makes old mediums seem irrelevant.
In the timeline of this game, the developers have gotten continuously more and more bordering on pay to win. As a self professed medium pilot who has studied up on the shadowhawk a fair bit, I can honestly say I could make a better mech out of it than I can make out of any other medium. I know this is not golden bullets and I understand that eventually project phoenix mechs will be f2p. On the same note, eventually there will be a new project phoenix. It would actually be more economically feasible for a gamer who wants to have the best toys to just buy a non-f2p game than to keep up with the treadmill of premium content that PGI is designing. In my opinion, paying money gives you a definite advantage over people not paying money (regardless of grinding), which to me is P2W. However, with PGI continuously upping the ante in this department, when will the community as a whole draw the line? I've spoken with my words and with my wallet. I do not know if PGI is listening but I hope they are.
If PGI changes course, and shies away from making this game P2W, I will come back and buy paint, cosmetics, mechs, etc., and I know there are others out there. I just hope they do it before MWO loses too many more players.

the shadowhawk stands as tall as some assult mechs and has bigger hit boxs then older mediums. im not sure why you would think its a better mech then other mediums other then having jumpjets and balistic sholder mounts. it was probly the best mech in the phoenix pack as i feal that the battlemaster is a steaming pile of {Scrap}.with that said i dont think the phoenix pack was worth what they were asking for.

[Liege]

I'm a founder (so yes i have spent $30 and maybe another $30 on normal mechs/paints) but I also didn't buy the Phoenix pack and I don't own a single Hero or champion mech and don't pay for premium time either and I don't feel the slightest bit that they were P2W, Just early content.

[Steel Claws]

The shadowhawk is the only one that really impacts games and it is the variant that anyone can have that is the best.

[ownka]

akpavker, on 13 November 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

the shadowhawk stands as tall as some assult mechs and has bigger hit boxs then older mediums. im not sure why you would think its a better mech then other mediums other then having jumpjets and balistic sholder mounts. it was probly the best mech in the phoenix pack as i feal that the battlemaster is a steaming pile of {Scrap}.with that said i dont think the phoenix pack was worth what they were asking for.

Explain to me why I would run any ballistic hardpoint hunchback over a shd-2d2. 7 hardpoints, with an even spread between ballistic, missile, and energy, and a much higher top speed.

[Lukoi Banacek]

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Stuff said based on perception rather than context

The SHD is a very strong medium at 55t....it is also at the top of its weight class. Comparing it to the HBK is probably a poor way of going about it simply because the HBK, while great fun, was already outclassed in its category, so the issue there is largely moot. The SHD does not tank as well as the Cent, but it does bring options to the table the Cent does not. So it is debatable, but a reasonable debate, on whether or not it outclasses the Cent completely. Zombies still have a great role to play.

The BLR is great fun and can hit hard like a Stalker....but saying it's the best in its class is erroneous. The VTR/HGN still outclass it clearly due to their meta-aspects and JJ options and it's debatable as well between the BLR, Atlas and Stalker really as each have some niches.

The locust is an interesting little bug but not even remotely top in its class.

TDR....that's a great Mech imo. Love to play it. I personally find it highly effective (with or without JJs), but the reality is the 3D still outclasses it and the Ilya and Jager's clearly compete with it. Again, not top in its class by any measure.

Don't confuse the rampant playing of "the new shiny" as indications that something is OP.

p.s. come back and play man!

Edited by Lukoi, 13 November 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

'mechwarrior online is pay 2 win'

The only mech from the group that really stands out is the Shadow Hawk, being the only 55 ton mech we have so far, which is a negligible advantage. All of the Phoenix Mechs have downsides, just like any of the others. The Battlemaster is far from the unstoppable juggernaut that you're making it out to be, did you forget about the Stalker, or Misery for that matter which has the same kind of loadout as the [prime variant] Battlemaster. The Shadow Hawk has somewhat odd hardpoints and its size & shape give it enough of a downside. The Thunderbolt has a large frame, and awkwardly placed hardpoints. The locust is well, you cant put much armor on a locust, but it can be useful enough if used correctly. Jesus, find something legitimate to complain about. It's hardly "pay2win"

Macster16, on 13 November 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

I don't have any of the Phoenix mechs, but from what I can see, with the exception of the Shawk, they're pretty poorly tiered in their respective classes, especially the locust which is downright trash.

My guess is that your ELO ranking places you with pilots that are 'trash', just sayin.








#inb4walletwarriorcomment

[ownka]

Lukoi, on 13 November 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

The SHD is a very strong medium at 55t....it is also at the top of its weight class. Comparing it to the HBK is probably a poor way of going about it simply because the HBK, while great fun, was already outclassed in its category, so the issue there is largely moot. The SHD does not tank as well as the Cent, but it does bring options to the table the Cent does not. So it is debatable, but a reasonable debate, on whether or not it outclasses the Cent completely. Zombies still have a great role to play.

The BLR is great fun and can hit hard like a Stalker....but saying it's the best in its class is erroneous. The VTR/HGN still outclass it clearly due to their meta-aspects and JJ options and it's debatable as well between the BLR, Atlas and Stalker really as each have some niches.

The locust is an interesting little bug but not even remotely top in its class.

TDR....that's a great Mech imo. Love to play it. I personally find it highly effective (with or without JJs), but the reality is the 3D still outclasses it and the Ilya and Jager's clearly compete with it. Again, not top in its class by any measure.

Don't confuse the rampant playing of "the new shiny" as indications that something is OP.

JJ sniping is honestly the worst habit I see in gameplay by the average player, so I really don't see JJ's alone as big enough to make up for the difference between the BM and the victor on hardpoints, especially considering a victor or highlander is as easy to hit as an atlas, whereas the battlemaster I honestly mistook out the gate for a wide heavy. A shadowhawk outguns a cent even harder than it does a hunch, and in this game, especially with the current meta, your ability to kill matters far more than your ability to run around with only your CT remaining and poke people with a small laser. The medium weight class as a whole is fairly weak, so I don't think there is a fair mech to compare it to by your standards.

Iron Harlequin, on 13 November 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

My guess is that your ELO ranking places you with pilots that are 'trash', just sayin.

That's kind of a {Richard Cameron} thing to say, even if you are ultimately agreeing with me in a way.

Edited by ownka, 13 November 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[akpavker]

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Explain to me why I would run any ballistic hardpoint hunchback over a shd-2d2. 7 hardpoints, with an even spread between ballistic, missile, and energy, and a much higher top speed.

because its half the size and has smaller hit boxs somthing im more then happy to trade for 20 kph. either way i didnt say the mech was **** so im not sure why i got the follow up question.

[ownka]

Meh whatever good to see the forums are as "head in the sand" as ever. Enjoy having lower and lower playing populations in this flawless work of art game, all advice is poisonous dissent, etc.
When it dies in a year I warned you. Gnight.

[Levon K]

Bro, I have legendary founder, overlord phoenix, and all the hero mechs.

My win rate is under 50%.

Therefore it cannot possibly be pay to win. /thread

[Lukoi Banacek]

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

JJ sniping is honestly the worst habit I see in gameplay by the average player, so I really don't see JJ's alone as big enough to make up for the difference between the BM and the victor on hardpoints, especially considering a victor or highlander is as easy to hit as an atlas, whereas the battlemaster I honestly mistook out the gate for a wide heavy. A shadowhawk outguns a cent even harder than it does a hunch, and in this game, especially with the current meta, your ability to kill matters far more than your ability to run around with only your CT remaining and poke people with a small laser. The medium weight class as a whole is fairly weak, so I don't think there is a fair mech to compare it to by your standards.



That's kind of a {Richard Cameron} thing to say, even if you are ultimately agreeing with me in a way.

So ultimately, you are kinda proving my point that the Pheonix Mechs were not p2W or even threatening to be so, quiaff?

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

Meh whatever good to see the forums are as "head in the sand" as ever. Enjoy having lower and lower playing populations in this flawless work of art game, all advice is poisonous dissent, etc.
When it dies in a year I warned you. Gnight.

I don't believe anyone here said the game was perfect etc. Merely that your argument is based on a flawed premise. The game needs TONS of work. Just not a (leaning towards) p2w issue here as you state in your OP.

[PropagandaWar]

Macster16, on 13 November 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

I don't have any of the Phoenix mechs, but from what I can see, with the exception of the Shawk, they're pretty poorly tiered in their respective classes, especially the locust which is downright trash.

all20 tonners are gonna be down right trash lol. Their 20 tons for goodness sake.

[Otto Cannon]

ownka, on 13 November 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

Any self respecting theorycrafter (or whatever title you'd appy to such a thing in this game) can glance at many of the Phoenix mechs and see the issue. By and large they are the -best- in their category.

The Shadowhawk is good, I'll give you that- but...

[Kaspirikay]

Actually I found the closest pay to win mech is the Illya, and even then it's iffy.