58 replies to this topic

[Volt Corsair]

So, am I the only one concerned with the fact that a fire support/counter insurgency mech is being used as a brawler? One wonders how people would play without the ridiculous amount of armor a mech can have in MWO.
Also...

NeoOne, on 14 November 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

How about fixing the game play PGI??? Some of us still can not Play right now, do to YOUR F---UP with the last patch. Again it's all about the money!!! And not supporting the paying and playing customer. YOU going to refund premium time that is being lost, as we wait to play again??

[Appogee]

The Champions are usually impressively optimised. This one however has two few jump jets, too much heat, and not enough ammo.

Swap two MLs for extra JJs and ammo, and it's a better build IMHO.

[New Day]

Deathlike, on 14 November 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

I'm not sure about "highly requested" part. I think (and I'm probably wrong here) but I think there are votes/polls @ mechspecs or someplace that is responsible for this.

That would explain most of it, and on the other hand make me facepalm because many of the designs have really bad flaws in them. Ammo-xplody legs would be one of them.

Statically viable=sample size of 100> Huh, who would have thought. There are no polls AFAIK.

I don't know about the other designs but keeping ammo in legs and in the head is better than keeping it anywhere else unless you can fill all the other slots with other items. Nobody aims for the legs unless you are a light/Cent.

Al Bert, on 14 November 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:

I am pretty sure it means that they have all the numbers on how many players make how many games with which loadout and how they come out of those games.And how these numbers change when they change the gameplay or tune some weapons. They see how many players use 6PPC loadout, before and after PPC weapon balancing, ghost heat etc. and then draw their conclusion to balance the game. I think these statistics is quite an underestimated, powerful tool for them to adapt the game while it evolves - just remember those statistics they once put in the forum with the paths players take, where they die/kill beeing highlighted by different colors. And how the introduction of the ship on forest changed this pattern over time. Heck they know exactly what percentage of kills take place in the platform on terra therma or on any other point of any map. And what weapon is causing the most of the kills, the highest damage just by the way these are actually used by the player base.

All of this ... we will never see though

Al

If this was your defense of PGI and GH you proved just the opposite because if they do have all this data then they are idiots not very bright since they would see that GH didn't 'end' the PPC meta, the (ER)PPC heat + min range did at the cost of making ERPPCs near useless.GH is just bandage and when the Clans arrive they will rip off the bandage and slash at the wound until there is blood everywhere. By blood I mean UAC20 shells in everybody's faces.

Do you mean by tuning the weapon leaving in a state of uselessness for MONTHS. Oh nope, my bad LPL is great.
That could literally be fixed by 5 minute XML change.

In case I missed your point I invoke Poe's law.

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 15 November 2013 - 01:16 AM.

[Blurry]

Garth Erlam, on 14 November 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

[color=cyan]And yet it was a highly requested, highly used, statistically viable loadout that people enjoy.[/color]

But who cares what they want, right?

Are you willing to share data with us lowly peons about what is and isnt request - what is about to drop and on the drawing board?
Is there an api that we can see what % of mechs and loadouts play per day and what q they use ect?(team v solo 12man)

Knowing is 1/2 the battle - reading, understanding, quantifying and using said data is the other 1/2.

How about I throw in a please?

Edited by Blurry, 15 November 2013 - 03:11 AM.

[BlacKcuD]

Garth Erlam, on 14 November 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

[color=cyan]And yet it was a highly requested, highly used, statistically viable loadout that people enjoy.[/color]

But who cares what they want, right?

Of course it is highly used, because it is new. Check your stats two months later if somebody is still fielding it

[Modo44]

The Blackjack is used because it is a versatile mech with multiple useful loadouts. The AC20 thing is just one "joke" build that happens to also be good.

[Manei Domini Krigg]

METHOD OF CREATION REALY GOOD CHAMPION MECH (special for PGI from me). 1 - Of the total amount of players use 20-25% of the best players (20-25% top elo players). This is to prevent inappropriate and meaningless configuration. And also reduce the amount of data to be processed in 4-5 times. 2 - Work with their statistics: looking mech we need and copy most popular config for this one.

Edited by Krigg, 15 November 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[Malsumis]

I know this topic is about the BJ-1©, but seeing the arguements regarding 2 MLs vs 3 MLs, I'd say skip the BJ-1 and grab a BJ-1DC

That's right, this medium has 5 MLs AND an AC20. It's a little toasty, but if you can handle heat management this little guy can do some major damage. And when you run out of AC20 ammo you still have 5 MLs left to fight with.

When using the 5 MLs you can put a couple of alpha strikes out before overheating, but if you chain fire them you can lay down a constant stream of damage and use the AC20 to make a hole for the medium lasers to finish off your enemy.

I haven't built the BJ-1 setup like the champion mech, but I'm sure it runs very similar to my BJ-1DC build just without the jump jets.

Edited by Malsumis, 15 November 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[Tank]

As munch as I like BJs, this one is inferior to my 4X Raven with AC20, best BANG for buck.

[NuclearPanda]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 14 November 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

And of course the BJ-1 champion is the second rate version. IE the one that overheats easily, doesn't have enough AC20 ammo, is short on jumpjets and will probably get most of the people who pilot it killed.

Stop exacerbating the "More guns = more damage" mentality, PGI. This mech can only handle/needs 2ML, and needs all the vertical thrust it can get! Survival = longer life = more chances to deal damage = better contribution to the team effort. Plus, I run out of AC20 ammo with 5 tons just about every time I play my BJ-1. Only having 4 is a problem, and swapping that ton with another ML will only make this sucker overheat constantly.

I eat 3ML BJ1s like they're ******* candy.

Garth Erlam, on 14 November 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

[color=cyan]And yet it was a highly requested, highly used, statistically viable loadout that people enjoy.[/color]

But who cares what they want, right?

Get em Garth! haha

[NuclearPanda]

NeoOne, on 14 November 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

How about fixing the game play PGI??? Some of us still can not Play right now, do to YOUR F---UP with the last patch. Again it's all about the money!!! And not supporting the paying and playing customer. YOU going to refund premium time that is being lost, as we wait to play again??

What's exactly making it so you absolutely cannot play? Hmmmmmm? The whole FSWG debacle?

Grow up man and lose the attitude. A fix is incoming and has been announced for next week's patch. There's no need to be abusive about it towards PGI or their staff honestly, and I'm not even whiteknighting for them here considering there are things I'm frustrated about with the game also. It's just a matter of not being a complete tool about it.

Besides, it hardly "breaks" the game. Get a better mouse or L2P.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 15 November 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[SgtMagor]

BJ with a Boomstick,

[LawDawg]

Garth Erlam, on 14 November 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

[color=cyan]And yet it was a highly requested, highly used, statistically viable loadout that people enjoy.[/color]

But who cares what they want, right?

Oh you..... TDM (Team Death Match) mode,...so we can stop this silly CTF (Capture the Flag) stuff, Weapon Convergence, and being able to 1v1 have been a long complaint, a request, of the community.

Hell Sir, id garner to say we would PONY up some MC for it! But saying a "BJ" has been wanted by the community........? Not buying it. It was just easy to do, make, put out and rake in a lil cash.

Not saying, just saying.

<EDIT> Garth: Can we get a graph or something showing us the % of Mech's used? I only asked because "Statistically" speaking, its viable. I would like to know how other Mech's fair and how popular they are.

/Respectfully

Law

Edited by LawDog, 15 November 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Odanan]

Garth Erlam, on 14 November 2013 - 03:17 PM, said:

[color=cyan]And yet it was a highly requested, highly used, statistically viable loadout that people enjoy.[/color]

But who cares what they want, right?

Surprisingly, I agree.
I took the trial for a ride and did very well. Never though a Blackjack would do some much damage and be so much fun.

PS: you simply can't brawl with a mech like this - you need to be sneaky.

[Deathlike]

NamesAreStupid, on 15 November 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Statically viable=sample size of 100> Huh, who would have thought. There are no polls AFAIK.

I'll put it this way, there's no way the Atlas-RS makes sense to anyone IMO. At least for many other the other builds, I could see some sound reasoning.

Quote

I don't know about the other designs but keeping ammo in legs and in the head is better than keeping it anywhere else unless you can fill all the other slots with other items. Nobody aims for the legs unless you are a light/Cent.

Well, the BJ has LESS leg armor than the Cent by design, and when you carry an AC20, you commit to at least 3 tons of ammo. The simple fact that ALL of the leg crits are consumed by it (it's not like it is the Splatcat of lore), it could be spread better.

Even during my time with the Cents, I've tried to minimize the ammo exposure to avoid ammo explosions. They still happened, but the ammo was spread well enough to not be systematically high.

I guess the concentration of power is different... I mean a Hunchback rarely gets legged and it has the same tonnage/armor as the Cent... oh well.

I dunno... I'm just sensitive to seemingly bad ideas.

[Ruccus]

Modo44, on 15 November 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

The Blackjack is used because it is a versatile mech with multiple useful loadouts. The AC20 thing is just one "joke" build that happens to also be good.

I don't understand why people think of an AC20 Blackjack as a 'joke' build. If you were to create a loadout based on its namesake which build would you make?:

Quote

A blackjack (American English), or cosh (British English), is a small, easily concealed club consisting of a leather-wrapped lead weight attached to the end of a leather-wrapped coil spring or rigid shaft, with a lanyard or strap on the end opposite the weight.

Materials other than lead and leather are sometimes used to construct these weapons, but the design principle (a soft covering over a dense weighted core) stays the same. Some were weighted with a heavy lead ball wrapped in woven or plaited sailor's line (marline or codline) and then varnished over. Some carefully made examples were likely to have been used by a boatswain or ship's master-at-arms or ship's mate as a badge of office and discipline-enforcer.

This weapon works by creating kinetic energy in the dense core, via the spring handle, during the swing. When directed at the head, it works by concussing the brain without cutting the scalp. This is meant to stun or knock out the subject, although head strikes from blackjacks are regularly fatal.

Blackjacks were popular among law enforcement for a time due to their low profile, small size, and their suitability for knocking a suspect unconscious.

A weapon used close-up to knock out or kill someone... that describes the AC20 build for the Blackjack pretty well.

[GunnyKintaro 01]

4 med las 1 lbx10 jj works like a charm

[Guchion]

Only champion mech i've bought, love the default build too. As said earlier its a fantastic sneaky build thats fairly forgiving for new players, and downright rude for more experienced ones.

As for tweaking, I present the ROFL-BJ BJ-1(C)

[Claviger]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 14 November 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

And of course the BJ-1 champion is the second rate version. IE the one that overheats easily, doesn't have enough AC20 ammo, is short on jumpjets and will probably get most of the people who pilot it killed.

Stop exacerbating the "More guns = more damage" mentality, PGI. This mech can only handle/needs 2ML, and needs all the vertical thrust it can get! Survival = longer life = more chances to deal damage = better contribution to the team effort. Plus, I run out of AC20 ammo with 5 tons just about every time I play my BJ-1. Only having 4 is a problem, and swapping that ton with another ML will only make this sucker overheat constantly.

I eat 3ML BJ1s like they're ******* candy.

I have zero heat issues with ac20/3ML killing much larger mechs easily... perhaps you need to learn fire discipline with your lazerz!?