150 replies to this topic

[Profiteer]

I play in a high ELO bracket. Don't give me ****, I just do.

Here's how it goes:

My team stomps the enemy 12-0, 12-1 for several games. The enemy team is basically nobodies +1-2 good players.

Then the match maker decides I have won too much so it puts me against 2 top level 4-mans while stacking my side with 1st day newbs who I could out damage by walking backwards at the enemy and shooting my weapons in the air.

Now don't get me wrong... I DO NOT WANT TO CLUB SEALS.

I have long since stop taking pleasure at destroying a bunch of nobodies.

What I'm asking for is a system that puts me up against the best players in the game WHILE PUTTING THE SAME LEVEL PLAYERS ON MY TEAM.

The current match maker/elo is so terrible I'm seeing more and more players I used to group with fade away or get frustrated like myself.

Please consider changing to a ranking system so that only players of a similar level play with each other. This would stop newbs being crushed, and higher level players getting p1ssed off with teams that haven't got a clue.

Cheers!

[Alistair Winter]

How much of a difference do you think it would make if premades were separated from PUGs? Would the matchmaker still be too bad, or would that be enough to make the game enjoyable?

Sincere question, not sarcasm.

[Profiteer]

Alistair Winter, on 15 November 2013 - 03:11 AM, said:

How much of a difference do you think it would make if premades were separated from PUGs? Would the matchmaker still be too bad, or would that be enough to make the game enjoyable?

Sincere question, not sarcasm.

I don't think it's possible.

What if I drop in a 3-man team? How is the MM suppose to make up 12 players? Look for 3 more 3-mans? Or 1 3-man and 3 2-mans? You need the solo puggers to make up numbers.

I think the answer is to rank everybody somehow, and then match similar level players against each other. Of course this has the issue of friends not being able to play with/against each other if they are of a different level.

All I know for sure is the current system isn't working, at least at the upper levels.

[Solis Obscuri]

Profiteer, on 15 November 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

I play in a high ELO bracket.

Then why are you surrounded by so many n00bs?

[dario03]

If they did seperate premades then in that example if the system can't make 12 then I would just have the system try to find one more 3 man and do 11vs11. Already get games like that or 12v11, 12v10 anyways.
But I think a change to the way teams are picked could help. IIRC the MM makes the first team and then the second team and trys to average out Elo and weights. I would just have it get 24 players and then split the teams by elo and weight so that it could try to have closer matched teams. So instead of one team of all level 6 players playing against a team of half level 9 and half level 3 players it would be a even split of 3,6,9 players on both teams. Though I would hope the system would actually just be able to match up full teams of much closer skill levels.

Edited by dario03, 15 November 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Yopu cant seperate because we dont have enough players. I started a new account over the weekend and saw no real differnce in gameplay between my 8000 match pug account and the new one. Saw very few new players and met just as many premades as I do in this account. Stomps all the time.
No one wants to play under such conditions and out of those who try it how many do you realistically think go through all the steps, look to join a team and ad 3rd party Voip? I would say that percentage is in the single digits now.
Reputation ruined is near impossible to get back so do some reading about this game outside this forum. Then think about it.
PGI does not have a big enough rabbit to pull out of its hat. This is going in one direction only no matter how many little stupid things thay ad. The solutions are here but chances are those ideas are all in the sewers of the forums due to the mods and their busy bee workers. Good Job Guys! Good Job.

[Rushin Roulette]

I see the coment about players "thinking" that they are in top level ELO ratings and think that they should not be playing with better/or worse players. Well. Ive got news for you guys... there are no top level tier games or matches. Everyone in the game is in the same pool of players whcih are being mixed and matched. You are not being matched against someone of your ELO level on the other team.

What is really happening is that your Teams combined ELO is being matched against the opponents combined Team ELO so that both ELO levels will be as close to even at the end as possible.

For a really simple example we can take the following theoretical 10 players (dont want to make an example with 24 players, so that will be an imagined 5v5 game). Players are the letters and the random numbers are the individual ELO scores;

A = 20
B = 15
C = 1
D = 4
E = 7
F = 10
G = 16
H = 1
I = 8
J = 14

Gives a total ELO pool of 96. This means that a perfect matchup for the system would be for each team to have an ELO of 48 points with 5 players on each side;

(A = 20)+(D = 4)+(E = 7)+(H = 1)+(G = 16) = 48
(B = 15)+(C = 1)+(F = 10)+(I = 8)+(J = 14) = 48

The top player (A with 20 ELO score) has 1 above average player on his team with G, but the other 3 are noobs with lower than average scores. The other team however has 3 players which are Average/above average with only 2 bad players.

What will not happen though, is that players with a score of 20 will only be matched against other players with a score of 20. When you press start, the matchmaker takes time to look for matches where your ELO score can be used to balance both teams.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 15 November 2013 - 05:09 AM.

[MERC Mournblade]

Hangs the bottom lip for a poptart and his poptart Highlander premade *hangs bottom lip*

[-Muta-]

What happens is that you think your ELO is high... I don't think MM is the problem; it is simply that some noobs have better luck stomping other noobs.

With that type of luck you have you should play the lotto on a weekly basis.




**: Please remember that at some point we were all noobs.

Edited by Mutaroc, 15 November 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[JohnnyWayne]

Solis Obscuri, on 15 November 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Then why are you surrounded by so many n00bs?

Because there are idiots everywhere that still don't get what ELO does. It is supposed to match single players against each other. In MWO it uses a phenomenon called "average" to match teams against each other. I'm quite sure it's only an arithmetical average (and it records only w/l). Good that we could clear that up.

That means if you are good and a pug you are likely to be matched with ******* so that the average is the same as the other teams though there are only a few good players.

Btw I suffer from pretty much the same. I don't win all pug games but either way I'm usually one of the top players (well, bad matches happen). Against premades that really play as premade I don't stand a chance and I can see if these people coordinate over voip (again, I'm not always right).

But the ratio of idiots in my teams is extremely high. People don't think while playing and therefore are plain stupid (noobtrain anyone?).

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 15 November 2013 - 05:40 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

JohnnyWayne, on 15 November 2013 - 05:31 AM, said:

Because there are idiots like you everywhere that still don't get what ELO does.

So many feels in this thread.

[JohnnyWayne]

Oh, lol that "like you" slipped my fingers I thought I didn't write that... mom xD

[3endless8oogie]

Mudhutwarrior, on 15 November 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

No one wants to play under such conditions and out of those who try it how many do you realistically think go through all the steps, look to join a team and ad 3rd party Voip? I would say that percentage is in the single digits now.

The real problems will be silent . When this situation continues there will not be enough money to keep updates coming and a bit later this game will get shutdown.
New players will have no intention to pay or stay for a game in which the battles are most of the time totaly unbalanced and frustrating.

Right now this game ís just terrible for new players.

[KinLuu]

Profiteer, on 15 November 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Please consider changing to a ranking system so that only players of a similar level play with each other. This would stop newbs being crushed, and higher level players getting p1ssed off with teams that haven't got a clue.

Cheers!

Not enough of them around, I would guess.

So you either need to live with lower elo people in your games, or have no games at all.

[Voidcrafter]

Wait...
You're saying that you know how the matchmaker works?
Or you know what ELO we're all in?
Can you please give us some light about it, cause to me it seems PGI just refuses to do so!
I've had just enough from speculations and stuff - I really had it.
No - I'm not offensive about you at all - I'm just soooo mad that there aint even a nick of clearance about the game's (probably) most important feature!
Am I the only one here that gets driven nuts by a game being out for more than year and a half, that has only 7 maps and nobody actually knows anything aside his own statistics?
And the ELO.... I can see some reasons why they're so silent - it's probably either some silly algorythm, or(most likely --> again - another speculation) they don't want people to exploit ot to end up against people they can crush easy.
But this is madness already - there are even speculations about the speculations about the specualtions for those speculations.
Yep.
Speculations.
For the money I've given in to this game - about the amount I'll be silent - though I'm quite certain that there are people who gave away way more and still - if you cut WOW I never spent so much money on ANY game EVER and I am sort of serious gamer(to be read: years and years spent on average 3<-->5 hours of gaming per day. Every. Day.) since I was 7 yo --> 22 years in gaming total - I think I, as some of you, have the rights to demand.
I am not doing it yet just cause I'm waiting for my last drops of patience to run out and cause I'm trying to be (somewhat)polite.
So really - tell me again:
What do you know about the ELO and the Matchmaker, that's actually a confirmed fact?
And don't you find that disturbing?

[Joey Tankblaster]

Where can I read out my ELO bracket? Just curious ...

[Kunae]

Voidcrafter, on 15 November 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Wait...
You're saying that you know how the matchmaker works?
Or you know what ELO we're all in?
Can you please give us some light about it, cause to me it seems PGI just refuses to do so!
I've had just enough from speculations and stuff - I really had it.
No - I'm not offensive about you at all - I'm just soooo mad that there aint even a nick of clearance about the game's (probably) most important feature!
Am I the only one here that gets driven nuts by a game being out for more than year and a half, that has only 7 maps and nobody actually knows anything aside his own statistics?
And the ELO.... I can see some reasons why they're so silent - it's probably either some silly algorythm, or(most likely --> again - another speculation) they don't want people to exploit ot to end up against people they can crush easy.
But this is madness already - there are even speculations about the speculations about the specualtions for those speculations.
Yep.
Speculations.
For the money I've given in to this game - about the amount I'll be silent - though I'm quite certain that there are people who gave away way more and still - if you cut WOW I never spent so much money on ANY game EVER and I am sort of serious gamer(to be read: years and years spent on average 3<-->5 hours of gaming per day. Every. Day.) since I was 7 yo --> 22 years in gaming total - I think I, as some of you, have the rights to demand.
I am not doing it yet just cause I'm waiting for my last drops of patience to run out and cause I'm trying to be (somewhat)polite.
So really - tell me again:
What do you know about the ELO and the Matchmaker, that's actually a confirmed fact?
And don't you find that disturbing?

You really need to spend time learning the difference between speculation, as you put it, and educated conclusions from observed behavior and situations.

People who are pretty high-Elo know this because of who they're seeing all the time in matches, and the performance of said folks. If you're good, you tend to have a much better idea who else is good. I realize, that you don't have this experience, swimming through the steering-wheel underhive, but when the air gets thinner, you can see better.

[Ghogiel]

All I know is when one has had a bad day and venting at people on TS is not enough, it's time to make a forum thread.

[JohnnyWayne]

Well on the other hand I don't like elitist behaviour... If you think you are high elo thats fine, but you never know. Even if you drop against famous players you still can experience the balanceingalgorithmn of besaid matchmaker.

Btw, it's not "a bad day". I had a bad week last week what resulted into 5 played matches yesturday the whole week, same for a friend. So it really kind of drives people off...

[Wispsy]

Mudhutwarrior, on 15 November 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

Yopu cant seperate because we dont have enough players. I started a new account over the weekend and saw no real differnce in gameplay between my 8000 match pug account and the new one. Saw very few new players and met just as many premades as I do in this account. Stomps all the time.
No one wants to play under such conditions and out of those who try it how many do you realistically think go through all the steps, look to join a team and ad 3rd party Voip? I would say that percentage is in the single digits now.
Reputation ruined is near impossible to get back so do some reading about this game outside this forum. Then think about it.
PGI does not have a big enough rabbit to pull out of its hat. This is going in one direction only no matter how many little stupid things thay ad. The solutions are here but chances are those ideas are all in the sewers of the forums due to the mods and their busy bee workers. Good Job Guys! Good Job.

Are you sure that is because you are not still in the same Elo bracket on your new account?