150 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

Ryan Steel, on 15 November 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

LOL touché.

You have some fight in you, I like it. I'm still calling you out for your BS though. If you see me in game come @ me. Not saying in advance who would win, but at least if you actually did emerge as a victor you'd have some substance to back up your talk. Too many players and units out there who run their mouth and then post memes and stupidities when called out. Take SwK. Villz challenged them to a 12 man a couple days ago in response to their contention that they'd roll us and Antonius responded that their "hands were full ATM". That's what I hate about the state of the game right now. We have to deal with playing gimped through Elo and we can't simply drop against anyone who thinks we don't have what it takes like in other games.

When I watch Kaffe I love listening to angry Villz. He has a hilarious kind of anger.

[AC]

Profiteer, on 15 November 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Then the match maker decides I have won too much so it puts me against 2 top level 4-mans while stacking my side with 1st day newbs who I could out damage by walking backwards at the enemy and shooting my weapons in the air.


Cheers!

HAHA OMG! This line here explains it perfectly.

Played a game last night that was VERY competative and back and forth. Came down to our last mech, an untouched Phract who was no where near the battle, an enemy Orion missing a RT and critted, and a legged enemy shadowhawk with no CT armor. Our team thought we had it in the bag. We watched this guy shoot the ground, shoot a building, shoot the drill pilon; I think he even shot himself once. It is the most frustrating thing to watch.

I don't understand why PGI thought it was totally ok to plan a matchmaker that puts noobs like this on high ELO teams. It hurts new user experience, and ****** off your vets. WHY PGI WHY DO YOU PUNISH US SO!!!!

[nehebkau]

AC, on 15 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

HAHA OMG! This line here explains it perfectly.

Played a game last night that was VERY competative and back and forth. Came down to our last mech, an untouched Phract who was no where near the battle, an enemy Orion missing a RT and critted, and a legged enemy shadowhawk with no CT armor. Our team thought we had it in the bag. We watched this guy shoot the ground, shoot a building, shoot the drill pilon; I think he even shot himself once. It is the most frustrating thing to watch.

I don't understand why PGI thought it was totally ok to plan a matchmaker that puts noobs like this on high ELO teams. It hurts new user experience, and ****** off your vets. WHY PGI WHY DO YOU PUNISH US SO!!!!

Close this thread down, you win! I almost pee'd my pants laughing.

[Deathlike]

I thought the phrase "MM trolls all" was just a fun thing to say because of lopsidedness.

I should amend that to "MM+ELO+magic netcode trolls all".

[Ras187]

its FACKED;,,, i can only find a Game every 5-6 time i seach, it takes 15-20 min to find one match in my highlanders and my victors.... COMPLETE BS

Edited by Ras187, 15 November 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

JimboFBX, on 15 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

And here's an example of the schoolyard algorithm making a bad matchup:

20, 18, 17, 13, 12, 11

Would give teams:
20, 17, 12 = 49
vs.
18, 13, 11 = 42

In this case, whoever chooses first gets an across-the-board better team. The fairest slice to this would be:

20, 13, 12 = 45
vs.
18, 17, 11 = 46

The second method isn't fair though. Those #18 and #17 are infinitely better than the #13 and the #12. The #11 is just along for the ride. The #18 and #17 will gang-bang the #20 and then it will be slaughter because the #13 and #12 will be helpless.

In fact, I'll go so far to say that right now, the matchmaker IS using the second method.

[Sandarbian]

Profiteer, on 15 November 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

I play in a high ELO bracket. Don't give me ****, I just do.

Here's how it goes:

My team stomps the enemy 12-0, 12-1 for several games. The enemy team is basically nobodies +1-2 good players.

Then the match maker decides I have won too much so it puts me against 2 top level 4-mans while stacking my side with 1st day newbs who I could out damage by walking backwards at the enemy and shooting my weapons in the air.

Now don't get me wrong... I DO NOT WANT TO CLUB SEALS.

I have long since stop taking pleasure at destroying a bunch of nobodies.

What I'm asking for is a system that puts me up against the best players in the game WHILE PUTTING THE SAME LEVEL PLAYERS ON MY TEAM.

The current match maker/elo is so terrible I'm seeing more and more players I used to group with fade away or get frustrated like myself.

Please consider changing to a ranking system so that only players of a similar level play with each other. This would stop newbs being crushed, and higher level players getting p1ssed off with teams that haven't got a clue.

Cheers!

Word True That!!

[Vodrin Thales]

Sug, on 15 November 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Another Elo thread? it's pretty much an accepted fact that the Elo system in MWO does not work.

I think you need to look up the difference between an accepted fact and a widely accepted opinion.

[Roland]

Murphy7, on 15 November 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

Total population is hurting our experience of ELO.

This is pretty much the problem right here. The population can't really handle good matchmaking, and the existing system they have implemented, including features which actively percent people from playing with their friends, are driving players away.

Every time fixes are suggested, the reply is that the population wouldn't support changing the queuing system to be less terrible.

Honestly, I'm skeptical that the system is going to improve before the remaining die hards that funded the development to this point just give up and move on.

Next month star citizen is gonna have their combat module calicle, and tons of folds aren't gonna come back here after that point, if pgi doesn't capture their attention before that.

[F lan Ker]

S!

The ELO or MM are just odd. Sometimes you get a very good match which keeps you one your toes to the last second and then a complete rofl stomp. I agree with posters above that the numbers are not that great in this game thus screwed ELO/MM. Even I enjoy playing with my mates and PUG games, MWO is becoming stale. Too much "XML warrioring" to my like. Use FOTM or succumb. Thinking man's shooter was thrown out the window after being typed, becoming a mere FPS with different flavor. PGI really has to do wonders to keep the interest up, at least for me as there are some other far more interesting games coming out soon. Until then I just play and troll, just for the fun of it

[Wispsy]

Sometimes my lasers do not laze. I then get shot and it hurts so much

[JimboFBX]

Mister Blastman, on 15 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

The second method isn't fair though. Those #18 and #17 are infinitely better than the #13 and the #12. The #11 is just along for the ride. The #18 and #17 will gang-bang the #20 and then it will be slaughter because the #13 and #12 will be helpless.

In fact, I'll go so far to say that right now, the matchmaker IS using the second method.

based on what? they're just numbers. a player with twice the elo of an average player isn't necessarily capable of beating two average players in a 2v1.

Edited by JimboFBX, 15 November 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Voidcrafter, on 15 November 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Wait...
You're saying that you know how the matchmaker works?
Or you know what ELO we're all in?
Can you please give us some light about it, cause to me it seems PGI just refuses to do so!
I've had just enough from speculations and stuff - I really had it.
No - I'm not offensive about you at all - I'm just soooo mad that there aint even a nick of clearance about the game's (probably) most important feature!
Am I the only one here that gets driven nuts by a game being out for more than year and a half, that has only 7 maps and nobody actually knows anything aside his own statistics?
And the ELO.... I can see some reasons why they're so silent - it's probably either some silly algorythm, or(most likely --> again - another speculation) they don't want people to exploit ot to end up against people they can crush easy.
But this is madness already - there are even speculations about the speculations about the specualtions for those speculations.
Yep.
Speculations.
For the money I've given in to this game - about the amount I'll be silent - though I'm quite certain that there are people who gave away way more and still - if you cut WOW I never spent so much money on ANY game EVER and I am sort of serious gamer(to be read: years and years spent on average 3<-->5 hours of gaming per day. Every. Day.) since I was 7 yo --> 22 years in gaming total - I think I, as some of you, have the rights to demand.
I am not doing it yet just cause I'm waiting for my last drops of patience to run out and cause I'm trying to be (somewhat)polite.
So really - tell me again:
What do you know about the ELO and the Matchmaker, that's actually a confirmed fact?
And don't you find that disturbing?

this is proberbly in part that PGI doesn't want people to know anything about leaderboard style scoring or how it works in the same way that we can't find our own elo scores in our stats, because we all know KDR and W/L is dependant on team play and we're not allowed to know anything on our individual performance. even acuracy ratings is dependant on lag/latency, hit reg. not skills.

why: community management, gen disc got nuked once and they can't do it again due to an e-peen infestation. so we have pointless stats and/or none at all.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 15 November 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Kunae, on 15 November 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I honestly think Matt Craig was only telling us part of the story, too, when he used his example of using "1 high elo player and 1 low elo player to balance out against 2 average elo players." It's becoming my thinking, and I could be totally off on this, that it will take one very high elo player and use 2-4 low elo players to balance it with. It's also possible I am smoking bath-salts and could be getting a hankering for chewing some random person's face off, too...

You're kind-of right. it treats 4mans like 1 person - so if you're dropping in 4mans in a match with lower Elo than you guys it only pulls 1 nub to offset you. If all 4 of you are pugging in the same game.... you get 4 nubs to offset all 4 of you.

It would be way, way better if instead of offsetting 2,000 Elo with 1400 Elo to get 1700 you offset 2,000 Elo with 1600, 1600, 1600. You still get an average Elo of 1700.

Not to speculate or start trouble but the indication of using that (1 for 1 matching) would be a low pool to draw from. It's population efficient but not balance-efficient.

Going to spam these concepts in every thread though because sincerely think they would help regardless of player population -

Gaussian distribution (thanks Grits N Gravy, smart idea)
split premade/pug Elo

These two things will:

A) make matching similar Elo scores easier, reducing the need to pull high/low for a balance.

B ) more accurately represent players Elo scores in a given match so it can better balance each team.

When CW rolls out and (hopefully) a bunch of experienced players come back to the game to fatten the pool that'll help tons too. Not something we can control right now though.

[Roland]

Honestly, here's a better system than what they are currently doing:

1) Find a group of people that are currently trying to play, who have Elo rankings as close to each other as possible.
2) Then break up that group into two teams, as best you can, respecting the groupings of the players of course.

This will result in a match where one team may have a higher Elo rank.. But it will at least have a bunch of players who are as closely matched as possible. For high Elo games, everyone will at least understand how to playing the ******* game to some minimum level of competence. They will at least understand how to move their mechs and target enemies.

The idea that you can take a ****** player and a great player and equal two mediocre players if fundamentally flawed. That is not how the game works. It is terrible, and results in a terrible experience for everyone involved. Stop doing that.

[MischiefSC]

Roland, on 15 November 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

Honestly, here's a better system than what they are currently doing:

1) Find a group of people that are currently trying to play, who have Elo rankings as close to each other as possible.
2) Then break up that group into two teams, as best you can, respecting the groupings of the players of course.

This will result in a match where one team may have a higher Elo rank.. But it will at least have a bunch of players who are as closely matched as possible. For high Elo games, everyone will at least understand how to playing the ******* game to some minimum level of competence. They will at least understand how to move their mechs and target enemies.

The idea that you can take a ****** player and a great player and equal two mediocre players if fundamentally flawed. That is not how the game works. It is terrible, and results in a terrible experience for everyone involved. Stop doing that.

That's the point of Grits N Gravys idea, and mine. Here's the problem though -

Are you willing to give up weight matching to get that? How much are you willing to give up on that?

Still need to split premade/pug Elo so those Elo scores are more accurate.

So make the primary matchmaking criteria Elo band though? How much tonnage mismatch are you willing to take to get that? I'm in 100% agreement with you by the way - absolutely no question. Personally I'd put up with 200 tons to get ~10% variation in Elo across both teams. If I can at least trust that everyone on my team isn't likely to have to disconnect suddenly because they've poked themselves in the eye while slamming their face on the keyboard to pilot their mech I can make plans around tonnage mismatches. Besides, the tonnage mismatch is as likely to be for me as against me and certainly not all mechs of a weight are equal. People will still pilot Awesomes, Battlemasters, Dragons and Locusts.

I'd even settle for 20% variance on Elo score, drop the Golden Master Race Elo score folks in with whatever match is showing the highest average and ignore their impact on the team 'total'. That way the odd 2600 Elo player can drop in a match with people playing at 2,000 and not have to pull some window-licker from the Underhive to gimp his team. I'm all fine with ignoring the Elo impact of highly ranked players, they're few and far between anyway. That and the difference between a really good player and a great player isn't nearly as profound as a good player and a poor player.

Tonnage mismatch I'll take in return for better Elo seating. Tighten that, loosen tonnage, split premade/pug Elo so Elo scores are far more accurate.

Would you be good with that?

[Thariel]

well the ELO is a Gaussian distribution. With the matchmaking system , which will put high ranking players with low ranking players onto a team, to meven the sides, there is no real progression possible, which will lead to a standard deviation of (assumed) 10, if the average ELO is 1000, which means ELO is utter cr@p, since the matchmaking will take care everybody has the same Elo long term.

[JohnnyWayne]

The curve actually looks like this:

I don't know if anyone mentioned it already, I lost track since page 2, but there seems to be different elo rating for each weight class. I have heared it somewhere and can confirm it by my observations (I'm a heavy pilot and played mediums for the first time with project phoenix).

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 16 November 2013 - 04:45 AM.

[Zolaz]

Vodrin Thales, on 15 November 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

I think you need to look up the difference between an accepted fact and a widely accepted opinion.

Sticking feathers up your *** does not make you a chicken. Matchmaker for MWO is hella craptastic. The longer that MWO is out, the more I feel that PGI is just trolling their community.

[John Wolf]

Morning everyone!

Make sure to keep any comments/posts on the topic, and not other players. Be constructive!

Thanks!