6 replies to this topic

[Caboose30]

Sensors and you, how I think it should work, and why they're important.

First off, let's get one thing straight. I don't care what source you look at, Mechs have sensors. Look at Gundam, the later Matrix movies, or hell even Power Rangers. All have some form of sensors. BattleMechs have sensors. Period. That's why you have to allocate two tons to sensors.

The way it worked before was very simple. MW1, there was radar, but no target locks. You aimed, shot, and hoped for the best. MW2-4, there was an overly simplistic 1km active radar range, and 500m (iirc) passive range. Anything in that range was detected, period. You could get a missile lock and pound the snot out of someone before they ever saw you.

Now, let's add in MechCommander. The first incarnation, every mech has a sensor suite with a base detection range. When they moved, the detection range shrank. When they ran, it shrank further. Why? The game cites that “The pilot has less attention to spare to sensors due to the enormous concentration it takes to pilot a mech”. Makes sense. But the mechanic works, if they got a contact, they could tell something was there, maybe even it's approximate size, but that was it. It wasn't until they were in visual range that they could fire on it. MC2 took it a step further and backwards at the same time. Pilots who were sensor specialists could detect size of mechs, vehicles, and other basic facts about them. But they did away with every mech having a sensor suite. Now throw in false positives from things like burning buildings and civilian vehicles, and you have a good overview, and maybe even know where I'm going with this.

What I propose is a hybrid of those, combined with some of the visual options we currently have. You could cycle your sensors through various detection modes, and find one that was suited to your environment or current conditions, to function more effectively. As a side note, I had another idea that the light amplification mode for visually based targeting would up the sensitivity when used in other modes. Everything would work something like this.

Radar – Visually and LOS based targeting – It means exactly that. If the enemy mech can see your mech, you can target it. Once someone has a target lock on your mech, your mech has enough sensor and computing power to deduce where the lock is originating, focus scan it, and spit out a target for you to fire at before you get hit too badly. This is pure LOS based, rather than visual range based which is what we have now. If more than 20% of a mech has no LOS blockage, you can target it. Now, if a high degree of it is obscured, certain things won't work right. Missile locks and accuracy, mainly. There will be a short detection range that puts the target on your map if you don't have visual contact, but it won't allow you to target it until you can see at least part of it. That is a very basic, and working model of radar for a mech, passive/active radar can be addressed at another time.

Thermal imaging – Detecting heat signatures of mechs and other things to be fired upon – This is a little trickier to use, but same basic idea. You switch to thermal imaging, and your sensors switch to thermal targeting. That means if you can see a thermal signature, you can target it. This means any laser boat in Frozen City is going to have a real bad day. The stronger the signature, the easier it is to target – sped up missile locks, faster information gathering from the sensor suite, things like that. This is a bad thing at the same time, because if said target runs behind another mech, your missiles and sensors might get confused and go after the heat plume of equivalent magnitude. Use at your own risk.

Magscan – Magnetic anomaly detection and scanning – This one is even more specialized yet. Switch to Magscan view (which isn't implemented yet), and you get a visual representation of all magnetic anomalies in visual range. Your sensor suite starts scanning for magnetic anomalies you can't see as well – ie outside your visual arc. Bigger mechs are going to show up the quickest because of the immense size of their reactors. Smaller mechs will have a hard time registering for the inverse reason. Mechs under high load – running and shooting – will show up faster than those that are standing still. Powered down mechs will be hardest to spot, except for the spike when they do start up. The advantage of this mode will be that it's one of the view that can see through buildings. The disadvantage is that if you're a scout mech near a heavy iron deposit, or large holding tank, you'll probably blend right in.

Seismic detection – Using ground based tremors/vibrations to locate/target mechs – Okay, so this one will be useful for one thing: advanced detection of incoming forces. But you won't be able to use it to get a missile lock unless you have visual on the target. Why? Because seismic readings tell you where something was, and it's not even close to an exact reading. Table Top won't even let you do indirect (non-targeted) LRM fire based off seismic readings. But, what it will tell you is that something is moving, where it's at, and it's approximate heading.

This is, I hope, a well thought out approach to having a functional sensor suite on a mech that would appease everyone. As you can see, this isn't the MW4 “Easy Mode” targeting. This is a realistic approach to target acquisition that I think we can all get behind. With a little fine tuning, and rules to address things like ECM and Beagle Active Probe, NARC beacon, etc, this could easily be a working model that everyone would enjoy, while still leaving the game challenging and fun for everyone.

[Caboose30]

Really? Nothing?

[Caboose30]

Has everyone given up on this then?

[990Dreams]

tl;dr

JK I didn't read it all but I agree completely. Advanced sensor modules are a must (be it a module or something like BAP/ECM). Seismic sensors just don't do it. Maybe the command console could be tied into sensor readings, etc.

[BbadAK]

I think you have some valid points but PGI decided very early on that they were going with a line of sight based targeting system and I don't see them revamping a core gameplay mechanic. Hell they refuse to touch some of the ancillary ones (ECM) no matter how poorly implemented.

[Stomp]

Hell yes. I'd go one further and say that ECM will throw off these readings in different view modes as well, and make it harder to figure out. Electronic Counter-Measures, is, after all, created to mess with your enemy and instill doubt and sow chaos through the battlefield. I'd venture to suggest false seismic readings, ghost radar pings, and the like. BUT, if this was the case, I'd also like to see the LRM/Streak jamming 180m field to disappear, and reduced lock-on time if you're able to NARC a target (increases NARC's functionality). A NARC'd ECM mech will be broadcast as bright as day. Bet 10 to 1 you see a Jenner fielding that puppy and a Trebuchet pumping a DDC full of Lurms.

And BAP would make all of ECM's screwy mechanics lessen, maybe not completely get rid of it (Because otherwise why bring it), and clear up a lot of the noise. After that you'd see kids fielding BAP so they could figure out what was rightly going on in a fight more easily. The immersion of a mech-sim is greater, and focus becomes on how to create a battlefield where you win. More LRMs, for one thing. God forbid they resurrect that nasty beast, but what with Ghost Heat cutting down on multiple launchers, at least it wouldn't be QUITE so bad.

[Caboose30]

BbadAK, on 25 November 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I think you have some valid points but PGI decided very early on that they were going with a line of sight based targeting system and I don't see them revamping a core gameplay mechanic. Hell they refuse to touch some of the ancillary ones (ECM) no matter how poorly implemented.

They actually said it was a place holder for something different. They just never specified what.