72 replies to this topic

[Roland]

People who think that high KDR isn't a huge contributing factor to winning, are fooling themselves. They are just trying to rationalize that despite having terrible KDR's, they are still somehow useful.

The players who contribute most to winning matches all tend to have good KDR's.

[Ghogiel]

Roland, on 19 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

People who think that high KDR isn't a huge contributing factor to winning, are fooling themselves. They are just trying to rationalize that despite having terrible KDR's, they are still somehow useful.

The players who contribute most to winning matches all tend to have good KDR's.

But let's not confuse the guy chasing the stick mech across the map trying to squeeze a single kill, all the while there are still mechs up with both weapons and armor.

[Roadbeer]

Roland, on 19 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

People who think that high KDR isn't a huge contributing factor to winning, are fooling themselves. They are just trying to rationalize that despite having terrible KDR's, they are still somehow useful.

The players who contribute most to winning matches all tend to have good KDR's.

Um, who contributed more 0-8 600 dmg or 2-0 100 dmg?

[Pwnocchio]

Roadbeer, on 19 November 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Um, who contributed more 0-8 600 dmg or 2-0 100 dmg?

Depends on who won.

I suspect, if ever the public data gets out (like XVM for Tanks), you'll find there is a direct relationship between a players average K:D ratio and W:L ratio.

[Ghogiel]

Roadbeer, on 19 November 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Um, who contributed more 0-8 600 dmg or 2-0 100 dmg?

Consistently over 1000 games?

The guy with the 2-0 kills 100 average dmg per match is an XL checking, head shotting ninja. while the guy averaging 800dam is helping, but averaging 0 kills over 1000 matches.... he is doing something wrong.

[Training Instructor]

During the five months or so of ECM + lagshield + CT coring SSRM2 there was a truly horrible guy named DuncanMC, or something like that, who routinely boasted about his 10+ KDR. He also abandoned matches where his team was losing, and he might have made the difference, given that he was piloting the most powerful mech in the game at the time for pugs, but he would flee and power down in some distant corner of the map if there was even a hint of a chance that he would die.

The guy literally only piloted the Raven 3L. I don't recall seeing him much in game since they made it hittable and since ppcs and bap made it targetable.

Show Kills and assist ratio.

[Bhael Fire]

The prominence of the KDR stat on the stats page is what drives players to try to increase it.

It's the only stat that is prominently listed in green or red, inferring that it's the most important stat the player can have. This causes many players to focus solely on that rating as a means to prove their worth.

A couple months back I suggested that it be relegated to a minor stat on the players mech stats tab (instead of the base stats):

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[GalaxyBluestar]

Ghogiel, on 19 November 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Consistently over 1000 games?

The guy with the 2-0 kills 100 average dmg per match is an XL checking, head shotting ninja. while the guy averaging 800dam is helping, but averaging 0 kills over 1000 matches.... he is doing something wrong.

i knew i was doing something wrong. i need more kill stealing and stop caping when ninja mechs fail in my matches.

seriously the figures do not tell what is happening on the battlefield,

3 kills and 120 DMG; says the guy was fumbling around letting people die but they carried enough so that he could clean up at the end.

3 kills 400 Dmg' means he fought and is a good shot but could still lose cause he can't protect a base and lost to cap or could still be killed along the way.

5 kills 800 Dmg; yes this is the guy who's usefull carrying a team... doesn't mean the other guys with low damage and kills are useless, there's simply not enough enemies to go around.

and there ends our statistic twisting lesson for today.

if anything is important it's a fun-win ratio, much prefer looking at my averages on each map rather than mech performance, it shows just a bit of what i can contribute and/or how less of a stone round a team's neck i am.

and yes i'm a bit of a stone.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 19 November 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Ryvucz]

From the latest bout of naysayer posts about KDR, you've just proved my point.

"You don't have a high KDR, you're not helping anyone".

That is bad thinking, it's especially bad in a team player environment.

It's that same mentality that keeps anyone from enjoying a good match.

Remove KDR, replace it with KAR and your scouts AND NEW PLAYERS will be happy, and even more so make those who target priority mechs until they're crippled move onto the next conserving ammo along the way.

Currently focusing on KDR is not creating an environment to show how much the new guys assist with versus flat out kill.

"You have to have a KDR of HIghNumber/LowNumber to be a member of my merc corp".

That's just [REDACTED] people. That tells me you want me to last shot everyone, while running away and powering down.

[olpOmat3000]

I agree with the idea to not show the KDR that prominently and focused (Green/red color) any more. It really gave me a bad feeling when my KDR was red and said 'You ain't good' back in my noob days.

I am not sure but I think my Win/Loss ratio actually dropped since my KDR is green - I thought it was due to all the new players after launch (no offense, I welcome all new players) but maybe it is me going more for the kill than previously. Not on purpose I might add.

Showing KDR, KAR, Win/Loss and average damage per match in one glance is the better way to motivate people I think.

[Ghogiel]

Ryvucz, on 19 November 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

That's just [REDACTED] people. That tells me you want me to last shot everyone, while running away and powering down.

lol people think that is how you get high KDR.

[Ransack]

Quote

Remove Kdr From Statistics.

But then, how would people measure their epeens?

[m]

Ransack, on 21 November 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

But then, how would people measure their epeens?

Self Promotional Plug: You could use the calculator I made in my signature

Edited by m, 21 November 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[RussianWolf]

Pwnocchio, on 19 November 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Depends on who won.

I suspect, if ever the public data gets out (like XVM for Tanks), you'll find there is a direct relationship between a players average K:D ratio and W:L ratio.

But isn't ELO and the MM supposed to trend your W/L ratio toward 1.0????

I have a feeling if you look at the people with high KDR, you're likely going to find they are members of well organized teams and drop that way almost exclusively. A well organized team increases your odds of winning tremendously and your odds of survival tremendously. I don't play this way and never will, I find it boring. I did my time in the military where you have to be an organized team because your life was on the line. This is a game and supposed to be fun.

Yes, I've seen guys run off and suicide over the map boarder to protect their precious KDR (the rest of their team had died and they were coming for him). I think its just silly. AND a violation of the rules. That should count as 10 deaths (lol).

I'll say it again, the only ratio that's important is your Fun 2 Play ratio. Have fun folks or you've already lost.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Increase th types of statistical information (ala BF series). Do not remove information. Just because there a handful of functional ******* overly concerned with KDR does not mean the rest of us should be held back from seeing this very useful yardstick. We use all of the available data in our unit and wish we had even more.

If someone is so thin skinned or so egotistical (note both ends of the spectrum here) that they tie their self worth estimation to one singular stat, that is their problem, not the vast majority who can make reasonable objective use of the data.

KDR is actually only third in our internal unit hierarchy of consideration of evaluating talent and how to improve ourselves (DPM is fifth believe it or not) but it is still helpful information.

[Shrike ski]

well, my two cents for what its worth. KDR is a valid stat. assists should be a valid stat (as long as you did some real damage not just 5-30 points anything less is pretty much paper cuts maybe based on the percentage of damage done to the kill (subnote it is already tracked with the xp rewards for assists and kills)) average match score should be a valid stat as well, I have personally had scores in the range of 148 match score 1 kill 8 assists 1250 damage (yesterday in fact) highest damage in a single match should be a stat, highest match score should be a stat, most kills in a single game should be a stat, most assists in a single game should be a stat as well. not being killed should be a stat as well, I have seen a couple of matches where there were some light pilots with over 700 points of damage in a 5 minute match not sure how they managed that but they are very good (few actual kills tho)

[Samziel]

What about ''KDA'' (KADR)? KIlls+Assists/deaths. Neither of these 2 will be left ignored. If someone feels it will make the ratios too high you can always multiply the deaths with 2, as there are 2 factors divided (Don't know much about math in english, so not sure if that made any sense).

Edited by Samziel, 25 November 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[Pwnocchio]

RussianWolf, on 22 November 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

But isn't ELO and the MM supposed to trend your W/L ratio toward 1.0????

Ah, you are of course correct. My background is still the WoT MM, so forgive me.

Change my assertion to a strong correlation between K:D ratio and higher ELO rating.

Quote

I have a feeling if you look at the people with high KDR, you're likely going to find they are members of well organized teams and drop that way almost exclusively.

No doubt that 'seal clubbing' lances are going to pad your stats if you are in that kind of player subset. This happens in WoT as well (but they limit it there by capping platoons to 3 tanks).

However, we really are talking about a philosophy that has proven true in these kinds of war games. All things being equal, removing pieces from the playing field will help your team more than simply doing damage. When you kill a unit you remove not only it's ability to deliver damage, but you remove it's ability to impact the remainder of the game (capping, making you change your plans, or respond to it's movements, etc...)

There are instances, and even sub sets within the 'scenario pie' where a player with a high K:D ratio is a failure of a player, but overwhelmingly people who routinely get 2 or 3 kills per match are excellent pilots and you want them on your team.

Besides, even if they show the K:D ratio it doesn't mean that you have to believe it's useful

[Thorqemada]

No!
Add "Assists" and "Survival Time" and maybe some other more esoteric stats (like destroyed Tonnage/Components per match) but there is no need to remove one.

[Cimarb]

KDR is just as important as any other stats, but it should not be as prominent as it is. Most shooter games are focused around it, unfortunately.

While it is important to get kills, if you have 5 kills and 100 damage, you are just cherry picking instead of actually helping your team win (or you just cored 5 enemy locusts...). On the other hand, if you have 1000 damage and your team only got 1 kill the whole match, you should probably start focusing targets a bit more.

None of the stats, except maybe W/L, should be emphasized any more than any others, because they all depend on your role in the match. I want every stat available to see, though, and Shrike Ski has some great additions I support in his post above.