29 replies to this topic

[Delas Ting Usee]

...oh and the first phase of CW? - I mean, everything that was spoken about during launch i.e. formation of Merc units etc. - When is the new interface suppose to be released? I know there was testing. Why is PGI so mum about updates and stuff?

[Threat Doc]

gavilatius, on 17 November 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

We're holding on to CW as a last resort,

I don't think you meant to say this... rather, what I think you meant to say is that we're holding onto the dream of CW, one which has yet to be realized.

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but for the past few years it has seemed like a grind.

Considering Closed Beta didn't even start until March or April of 2012, I would not say that 18 months counts as a "few years". It might seem like years, but it, indeed, has not been. The announcement for the game was made on October 30th, 2011, which is two years and one-half month ago, which still does not count as a "few" years.

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all due to a lack of content.

this game used to hold so much promise, but as we see, it was nothing but.

That's just because you, and many others like you, keep saying the dream is dead. Just because you keep saying it does not mean it's true. Does PGI need to communicate "mo-betta"? Yes, they do; they're utterly horrible at communication. However, that's because they're busy building the game. Do you remember reading about the Public Test for DX 11 two weeks ago? At the Launch Party, Bryan Ekman said DX11 was the largest hurdle they were working to clear and, once that was done, UI 2.0 would not be far behind, followed by CW. Okay, so, that didn't work, it was supposed to be out by the end of October, beginning of November, and then we would see UI 2.0 before the end of the year. Remember that? Well, since it's only the middle of November, they likely ran into some snags they weren't counting on, so we need to be patient. I know, individuals are going to scream "I'm tired of being patient, give me game, NOW!?!?!" and then bang their clubs on the ground to establish dominance. However, I'm not a programmer, but I have built web sites and Excel workbooks -under no one's scrutiny or timeline- and even I know about the issues involved with getting a game like this out.

Is MWO grindy? Yes. Are you really SELFISH enough that you would fail to understand the difficulties with bringing such a beautiful and complete project to potential millions of ravenous fans? I hope not.

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the community still stands as people say in the forums "I'm leaving" and I don't blame them.

They'll be back.

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PGI has seemed to shut out the community for some reason, a reason which only illicit "we'll think about it"s or "Maybe later"s.

I can't argue this, you're right about it, and I have said so, many times. PGI is terrible about talking to the community, and that's problematic. For a full three weeks after the September Command Chair, concerning preliminary plans for how the Merc Corps Interface was going to work, there was good will and quietus on the forums... not anymore.

Slow down, everyone; breathe, enjoy what you have. If you don't enjoy what you have, go away for a little while, and then return. I, for one, hope that my hope will not be bashed in and, thus far, even though I've been rowdy in a couple of places, it has not been, overall.

[Pwnocchio]

Kay Wolf, on 18 November 2013 - 08:16 AM, said:

Is MWO grindy? Yes. Are you really SELFISH enough that you would fail to understand the difficulties with bringing such a beautiful and complete project to potential millions of ravenous fans? I hope not.

Kay, I think you are overlooking the real dynamic here.

You aren't talking to PGI's friend, or brother, or mother. You are talking to PGI's customer. It's not his job to be understanding.

PGI has made announcements regarding content that was supposed to be available around launch. They've not delivered on those.

If you re-read what the OP posted, he's not even complaining about not having these things, he's asking when he will have them.

That isn't selfish. He is the customer. He's not even being cantankerous about it. He just wants an update.

[Threat Doc]

Pwnocchio, on 18 November 2013 - 04:05 PM, said:

Kay, I think you are overlooking the real dynamic here.

You aren't talking to PGI's friend, or brother, or mother. You are talking to PGI's customer. It's not his job to be understanding.

It is EVERYBODY'S job to be understanding, unless you're a {Richard Cameron}, and then yeah, you have a point. What's the best way to stifle innovation and improved development? Be a {Richard Cameron} to those who are trying to innovate and improve development. Yes, it is VERY MUCH everyone's good form to be understanding.

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PGI has made announcements regarding content that was supposed to be available around launch. They've not delivered on those.

If you re-read what the OP posted, he's not even complaining about not having these things, he's asking when he will have them.

That isn't selfish. He is the customer. He's not even being cantankerous about it. He just wants an update.

I think you misunderstood me... I was NOT calling the OP selfish... not in the least. I was referring to the broad range of individuals who refuse to be understanding about what's going on.

Now, is it true that PGI have made general statements as to when they intend to release things? Yes. Were they promises? Never. Generally, a promise has to be a statement of what is to be done preceded by or followed by "I/we promise".

Look, I'm not trying to be the proverbial "white knight", here, I'm just trying to keep the unnecessary vitriol to a minimum. If we want to have this game a year from now, five years from now, etc., if we want to see the possibilities of this game in the future, this community needs to pull its head out of its collective fourth-point-of-contact and start acting like we actually want this game to succeed, rather than simply lending it lip service. Also, if anyone can program a game that is more beautiful, more complete, and more like BattleTech, they should probably get started on a game, or try to go to work for PGI.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Kay Wolf, on 18 November 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

Now, is it true that PGI have made general statements as to when they intend to release things? Yes. Were they promises? Never. Generally, a promise has to be a statement of what is to be done preceded by or followed by "I/we promise". Look, I'm not trying to be the proverbial "white knight", here, I'm just trying to keep the unnecessary vitriol to a minimum. If we want to have this game a year from now, five years from now, etc., if we want to see the possibilities of this game in the future, this community needs to pull its head out of its collective fourth-point-of-contact and start acting like we actually want this game to succeed, rather than simply lending it lip service. Also, if anyone can program a game that is more beautiful, more complete, and more like BattleTech, they should probably get started on a game, or try to go to work for PGI.

Those general statements had general dates. And whilst PGI is not beholden to those dates a simple - " we ran into an unexpected snafu that will cause some delay " - would be nice. That's all I'm saying. I read somewhere that UI 2.0 was suppose to be release around NOW. (All the testing that's been going on) Well, you don't hear me demanding that heads roll. Just a hint of something down the pipe line is all I'm asking for.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 18 November 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Delas, I cannot, and do not, disagree with you. I have said it myself several times that PGI are horrid with communication, and that's unfortunate. Frankly, I don't think it's very cool to be left in the dark like this, but this is the way they operate. I would also like a hint as to what's going on. The testing of the past two weeks I take as a positive sign of things to come, especially if they release the DX11 business tomorrow for the patch. I've not seen or heard anything about the DX11 public test going badly, so I'm hoping tomorrow will be the start of the next bit of our journey.

[0rca]

Soon (C)

[Sug]

Delas Ting Usee, on 18 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

Why is PGI so mum about updates and stuff?

Well, to be able to say things about updates and stuff you need to have updates and stuff....

[-Natural Selection-]

0rca, on 18 November 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Soon (C)

x2

[Clownwarlord]

Delas Ting Usee, on 18 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

...oh and the first phase of CW? - I mean, everything that was spoken about during launch i.e. formation of Merc units etc. - When is the new interface suppose to be released? I know there was testing. Why is PGI so mum about updates and stuff?

NEVER!!! Really PGI will come up with more reasons to say screw you and walk away. Heck after the big burn a pillage of the wallets with Project Phoenix why stick around and provide us with anything. They got what they wanted and now they have nothing to give us (or more like no reason unless they can put more price tags on things).

Oh well, people say today will be the update for a new map at least (but eventually that will get really old).

[Joarg]

Well PGI is busy milking you with a lot meaningless new Mechs in the store, which most of you buy like candy...why work on other stuff while this game is launched and bad (basicly dead by now...) investing more money will not help them, throwing out new mechs for nearly no cost and making profit (maybe the models can even be used in other games that are in development...) is much better.

[Blurry]

6-8 months u should be seeing it drop. just initial phase after bug testing.

they are working hard and fast.

[Silent]

When Mechwarrior: Online goes under the developers will say that Community Warfare was weeks from being released.

"If only you all believed in us more. With your wallets. It was in our grasp and you all let it slip away." [A single tear rolls down Russ Bullock's greasy cheek]

[Blurry]

Kay Wolf, on 18 November 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Delas, I cannot, and do not, disagree with you. I have said it myself several times that PGI are horrid with communication, and that's unfortunate. Frankly, I don't think it's very cool to be left in the dark like this, but this is the way they operate. I would also like a hint as to what's going on. The testing of the past two weeks I take as a positive sign of things to come, especially if they release the DX11 business tomorrow for the patch. I've not seen or heard anything about the DX11 public test going badly, so I'm hoping tomorrow will be the start of the next bit of our journey.

Do you think that the way the operate has repercussions on the business side and the player base?
I think they do and a tremendous one at that or there wouldnt be this (forum stuff) all the time.

Saying this is how they operate is acceptable if they are looking to run the game into the ground or get a hostile takeover.
I dont know many companies that actively leave money and players on the table in preference of non dialogue.
Hire a part time person to come on and hit up the forum every day for a little bit. 13/hr wouldnt hurt the bottom line at all.

Edited by Blurry, 19 November 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

0rca, on 18 November 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

Soon ©

^

[Scromboid]

This is one of the major fails that PGI constantly stumbles into: horrible communication regarding failed promises.

It is what keeps myself and most of the folks I play with from opening our wallets again. I do not, and cannot, trust them. They have broken that trust too many times and it will take many consecutive acts of good faith to rebuild it.

Sounds like a cheating girlfriend, but it kind of is the same thing...

[Threat Doc]

Blurry, on 19 November 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

Do you think that the way the operate has repercussions on the business side and the player base? I think they do and a tremendous one at that or there wouldnt be this (forum stuff) all the time.

I think it has an amazingly horrid effect on potential future business. However, what I think they're counting on is being able to contact all of the people they've lost, once they get CW Phase 3 online, and calling them back to play, again, citing the game is complete. It's almost like a person that abuses a loved one; they say they're sorry, and the loved one stays with them, even when they've done it time and again. People will come back, though not in as great a numbers as they have been here, before, most likely. For my part, PGI has done what I asked them to do, as far as I can tell, and I have been talking to folks to get them involved, either again or for the first time. However, when planetary comes out which, I believe, is Phase 2, I will start putting money into advertising outside -an ad on Facebook, talking to the expanding community of BattleTech lovers, my old friends and family, etc.- to build up both AU and the population of this game. I said I would, and I will.

Look, I'm still very hopeful the game is going to come to fruition in the totality of the design goals given to us from the beginning, and then some, it's just taking longer. However, with the quality of the game as it stands -with the admitted lack of modes, DX11, UI2.0, and CW-, I fully expect this game will blow us entirely away in the end. We just have to be patient.

[Pwnocchio]

Kay Wolf, on 18 November 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

It is EVERYBODY'S job to be understanding,...

No it is not. It's nobodies job to be understanding in this relationship. It's PGI's job to make money. It's not our job to give them money. It's PGI's job to make us WANT to give them money.

This is the nature of the Buyer - Seller relationship.

You seem to believe that there is some friend - friend relationship obligation here, but there isn't. This is just business.

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Now, is it true that PGI have made general statements as to when they intend to release things? Yes. Were they promises? Never. Generally, a promise has to be a statement of what is to be done preceded by or followed by "I/we promise".

It's not about 'Promises', it's about doing business.

They created demand and raises expectations by announcing future features and tagging those features with a projected release date.

Again, you aren't dealing with your good buddy who promises to pay you back next week, you are dealing with a corporation.

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If we want to have this game a year from now, five years from now, etc., if we want to see the possibilities of this game in the future, this community needs to pull its head out of its collective fourth-point-of-contact and start acting like we actually want this game to succeed, rather than simply lending it lip service..

The onus is on PGI, not the customer. There is demand for a good Mech game, but if PGI markets a product that they can't deliver it's not the customers obligation to buy that product.

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Also, if anyone can program a game that is more beautiful, more complete, and more like BattleTech, they should probably get started on a game, or try to go to work for PGI.

Kay, when you get older you'll understand why this statement above is 'pretty far out there.'

It's like yelling to a car buyer "If you don't like that your Toyota accelerates on it's own when you are trying to stop it you should just learn how to code your own Engine Control Module Software!"

In the end if there are people taking exception to PGI missing deliverable dates it is entirely the expected response. There really isn't a need to get upset with them about it. It's what customers do.

[Heffay]

I agree. At the end of the day we want the employees of PGI to be driving around in gold plated Teslas. If they are successful and get rich off this game, that means they made a game that people wanted to (and did) spend a TON of money on.

If an individual doesn't like the particular direction of the game, that is their problem, not PGIs. I just hope they can sleep well knowing they have a small group of disgruntled players out there on their mattresses stuffed with 100 loonie bills.

[Pwnocchio]

Heffay, on 19 November 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

I agree. At the end of the day we want the employees of PGI to be driving around in gold plated Teslas. If they are successful and get rich off this game, that means they made a game that people wanted to (and did) spend a TON of money on.

Precisely.

I walked away from this game during closed beta, not because of PGI's content, but because my gaming rig couldn't handle it. This isn't surprising.

What is surprising, however, is that after upgrading my rig I was never in a hurry to reinstall the game, even after a year away, because the original content wasn't beckoning me.

Finally a friend of mine harasses our group enough about the 'money we've spent on MW Online' to get us to re-install and play, and we are having fun. I was having enough fun that I went ahead and bought the Overlord package after launch to thank PGI.

However, once I'm all done unlocking all the mechs I want to play (the master effeciencies, really) and I have a stable of mechs sitting around, I can foresee my interest in this game eroding due to lack of CW or new game modes.

Once earning XP and CBills to collect new mechs is no longer part of your play I can see it really dropping off for you. That isn't the customers fault.