120 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

If Joseph was the only Spheroid left in MWO i could still challenge him to a duel to decide the fate of the Inner Sphere

[Ryue]

Will9761, on 05 December 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I don't have a problem with the Clan mechs, but the weapons damage should be decreased slighty. Honestly, some of the weapons are fine but there are other Clan weapons that have ridiculous a damage output.

I only say UAC/20 for the clans.



else I dont get it why it is a problem to give them less maximum tonnage per game and/or let them play with less players than IS (in all TT games and computer games simulating the TT that is being made for example via BV values)
or another option: no customization but you can freely choose between (stock) variants for each match

Edited by Ryue, 13 December 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 13 December 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

If Joseph was the only Spheroid left in MWO i could still challenge him to a duel to decide the fate of the Inner Sphere

Hopefully after we were done, you'd know you were in a fight to decide that fate!

Ryue, on 13 December 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I only say UAC/20 for the clans.



else I dont get it why it is a problem to give them less maximum tonnage per game and/or let them play with less players than IS (in all TT games and computer games simulating the TT that is being made for example via BV values)
or another option: no customization but you can freely choose between (stock) variants for each match

At my Table Clanners could not mess with the hardwired stuff (engines, Base sinks etc) But any weapons were fair game. So long as space and mass was available.

[INKBALL]

As written in my post: http://mwomercs.com/...guys-are-blind/

I think a solution should be playing with real tabletopbalance, 8v12, and if there's not enough IS players, 8v8 clan (or 12v12 if its IS v IS). Im aware that actual Clans can't take 1.5IS+ as they should be able to (even if they are still stronger than IS imo).

Then balancing the game would look more like Clan are dominant tech+ balance would be easier without ruining all the ''clan thing''. And unbalanced team (and balanced) isn't something we see much in games anyways, so it could bring something special and unique to the game.

[Pariah Devalis]

A. Wtf thread necro. AGAIN
B. True clan balance is 5v12, semi-realistic balance that does not take a steaming pile of crap on the Clans is 10v12.

Many of us would love 10v12, but even if Clan tech was nasty enough in MWO's settings to pull it off, there would be an almost inevitable slide by the power gamers to clan tech because "lololbignumbers." That is not an acceptable for our community, either.

[TibsVT]

May as well jump in and continue this one with you Pariah, 10v12 would ring golden for many of us who really love our BattleTech. I would love for PGI to ramp up our tech around 150% (just a random number) and still put us at a slight disadvantage so it dissuades every man and his dog from playing Clans. I'm honestly getting tired of seeing all the scrubs frying eggs on our Mechs, there's no honour in it.

Edited by KelesK, 20 June 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

I am still amused by how many people keep trying to use Clan mechs like IS ones. It seems abundantly clear to me that an aggressive approach with Clan mechs is ideal in (most) situations. All heavy mechs are fast. The mediums are moving at a pretty damned respectable speed. Both can move with ECM screening Kit Foxs. All are almost zombie mechs in their own right. All can mount a disproportionate amount of mixed firepower with room to stuff in a very healthy dose of SRMs.

Reads like a perfect storm of tactical theorycrafting for a fast, mobile, resilient group of mechs, capable of approaching an enemy force, then simply out-surviving everything in front of them with overwhelming brawling firepower.

Hell, in practice? Works like a god damned charm. Can easily overwhelm a line designed for a ranged fight with multi-role Clan mechs and dedicated brawlers. Consistently.

Why people insist on playing the same, passive hide and peek game is beyond me.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 20 June 2014 - 07:34 PM.

[TibsVT]

I funnily enough I got thrown into a lance with guys from clanjadefalcon.com the other night and even without voice comms between myself and them we functioned as an extremely well oiled machine by following the principle listed above. Mind you my Summoner Prime lost it's LBX and ran dry of missiles so I only has the ERPPC by the end but even with that the Summoner's mobility makes it an incredibly sturdy and reliable platform.

This IS crap is irritable at best and there really needs to be something that prompts less people to use the Clan Mechs, problem is though if you stick your neck out it's open season. I say dump the teams to 10v12 and leave the equipment as is. Watch the dezgra panic and fry more then just eggs then.

Edited by KelesK, 20 June 2014 - 07:54 PM.

[CyclonerM]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 June 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

All are almost zombie mechs in their own

Ok hold on. Zombies? Sure, we can survive a lost torso and my TW can still run and fire at 18-20% of health but more often than not well placed AC/20 shots will destroy 3/5 of my weapons destroying a side torso.

[Pariah Devalis]

CyclonerM, on 21 June 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

Ok hold on. Zombies? Sure, we can survive a lost torso and my TW can still run and fire at 18-20% of health but more often than not well placed AC/20 shots will destroy 3/5 of my weapons destroying a side torso.

Does not mean they cannot keep fighting well beyond their expiration point. When half the mech is blown off and you still have the firepower of a Griffin, I think that is acceptable.

[CyclonerM]

Pariah Devalis, on 21 June 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

Does not mean they cannot keep fighting well beyond their expiration point. When half the mech is blown off and you still have the firepower of a Griffin, I think that is acceptable.

Mmh, well, 1 ERLL+1 ERML = about 18 damage

[TibsVT]

CyclonerM, on 21 June 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

Mmh, well, 1 ERLL+1 ERML = about 18 damage

MG and LRM and maybe a MPL depending on the side.

[Odanan]

Pariah Devalis, on 20 June 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

A. Wtf thread necro. AGAIN
B. True clan balance is 5v12, semi-realistic balance that does not take a steaming pile of crap on the Clans is 10v12.

Many of us would love 10v12, but even if Clan tech was nasty enough in MWO's settings to pull it off, there would be an almost inevitable slide by the power gamers to clan tech because "lololbignumbers." That is not an acceptable for our community, either.

10 vs 16 is better.

[CyclonerM]

KelesK, on 21 June 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

MG and LRM and maybe a MPL depending on the side.

I removed the MPL, and i have a machine gun on a side and ammo on the other so either the weapon or the ammo gets destroyed.. Anyway, the LRM ammo often is depleted before i lose a side torso

[Julian Langsdorf III]

For me the biggest surprise has been the durability of Clan light mechs like the Kit Fox. Even when they are slow, they are difficult to put down.

[TibsVT]

Odanan, on 21 June 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

10 vs 16 is better.

With 10v16 you'd need to tweak values a bit. I say leave everything as is and make it 10v12. Watch those surats piloting Clan Mechs start to vanish off the field then.

[CyclonerM]

KelesK, on 21 June 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

With 10v16 you'd need to tweak values a bit. I say leave everything as is and make it 10v12. Watch those surats piloting Clan Mechs start to vanish off the field then.

Indeed. I believe many of the proposed team numbers like 5 vs 12 (and probably 10vs16) would always end with the Clan team being stomped. The difference would be too great.

Remember, many average players just want to win and if that means having to use inferior 'Mechs that regularly win, they will use them

[Tank]

KelesK, on 21 June 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

With 10v16 you'd need to tweak values a bit. I say leave everything as is and make it 10v12. Watch those surats piloting Clan Mechs start to vanish off the field then.

I would say, the less - the better.

CyclonerM, on 23 June 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

Indeed. I believe many of the proposed team numbers like 5 vs 12 (and probably 10vs16) would always end with the Clan team being stomped. The difference would be too great.

Remember, many average players just want to win and if that means having to use inferior 'Mechs that regularly win, they will use them

My solution would be to make machmaker find a proper ELO (skilled) players to oppose IS forces..
But asymmetric balance plus asymmetric teams - that's gonna be a hard topic...

[Gordon Gecko]

Some of the The clan mechs are underpowered. The clan mechs in general are about the same as the IS mechs which is really lame. In fact I am almost wanting to go back to IS mechs since the AC's are better.

[Pariah Devalis]

Outside of the Summoner, I find it hard to quantify any of the mechs as underpowered. For example, the Adder. Yes, you can make a Kit Fox with an SSRM20 but to do so you need to give up jump jets and ECM, which are the only real saving graces for the mech IMO. Well, ok, you can take the jump jets, but at the cost of one ton of either ammo or AP, and you already start with one less ton of room to work with than the Adder. You might as well take the 5 ton heavier mech with torso mounted missile hardpoints for extra weapon survivability.