120 replies to this topic

[Sudden]

clan mechs should stay within lore, with speed, weapon load outs and more. balance should come from something else. i say hang the damn game balance. the game will become more tactical that way. and more fun. atm its just rush fight and win or lose. anyway if they can at some piont make salvage part of the game. it will balance the game quickly

[SumoRex]

Sudden, on 29 November 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

clan mechs should stay within lore, with speed, weapon load outs and more. balance should come from something else. i say hang the damn game balance. the game will become more tactical that way. and more fun. atm its just rush fight and win or lose. anyway if they can at some piont make salvage part of the game. it will balance the game quickly

I actually agree with this.
I prefer to play IS myself, however I wouldn't mind the imbalanced mechs if the match maker system balanced the team weight based on the win/loss ratio between the IS and Clans. If the clans 12v12 were overpowered at first (which they would be) the match maker would slowly adjust the clan team tonnage to level the battle in the long term If clan mechs are as overpowered as they were in Table top then they might be fielding as few as 5 mechs against 12. (That's just a guess, but the balance would be made by the win loss ratio... Not my assumptions.). If the clans win a lot then they lose tonnage for another battle. If they start to lose then the balance will be levelled out... It's simple really. The difficult part would be how the match maker would find mechs of the appropriate tonnage AND players of the right skill level to balance the sides. Maybe that wouldn't matter on a single game basis as the long term ratio would still be affected by any imbalance in average player skills.
My prediction would be that all the people who want to play clans because its like having an auto advantage would soon think again if they were playing with unfavourable odds tonnage wise and the advantage was lost due to that.
Maybe the real elite players in MWO online would gravitate towards the better tech, but then even that would soon make the matchmaker even those odds....

Just to summarise I'm all for clans being overpowered as per canon, but let the imbalance be tempered by match-maker driven uneven tonnage.

Edited by SumoRex, 30 November 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[SumoRex]

hmmmmm. I just had another thought on balancing.
How about the clan games be called clan vs clan (which speaks for itself) or "invasion". If you were a clan pilot what you would be signing up to with "invasion" is a SERIES, rather than a single match. The IS teams would come at the clans as a wave of 12vs12 mechs. The next wave would be 12 more pristine IS mechs (12new players) but the clans would not be repaired as they "INVADE". Wave numbers and tonnage could be determined by the matchmaker but would be at least 2 waves. There would be no base capture option for these matches just death or glory.

Maybe a third/fourth wave could be added if the clan team voted to continue with higher rewards being given for invading further into the waves? Risk/reward is key here.

Thoughts?

Edited by SumoRex, 01 December 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

I endorse this idea ^^^

[-Muta-]

I just play the game, because I like to destroy others xD

I dont care about upcoming features as long as they keek implementing good stuff.

[Will9761]

I don't have a problem with the Clan mechs, but the weapons damage should be decreased slighty. Honestly, some of the weapons are fine but there are other Clan weapons that have ridiculous a damage output.

Edited by Will9761, 05 December 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[Kyle Lewis]

Alwrath, on 18 November 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Hello community, hello PGI,

As of right now I am concerned over the implementation of clan mechs. The clan mechs are supposed to be superior to IS mechs and in the lore the Clans would gamble and bid money on how few Clan mechs they would take to battle to conquer an area and destroy as many IS mechs as possible. They were always out numbered but would often win due to the superior mech chassis and pilot skills.

My question is, are they going to be true to the lore and implemented this way so that a team of Clan mechs will be fewer in number compared to a team of IS mechs on the battlefield? This is how it should be done imo. No one is going to be that excited over clan mech's if they " balance them " ( AKA dumb them down ) to IS mech level. This would be a huge mistake and be a huge misinterpretation of what clan mechs are supposed to be. An elite fighting force. My first thought to balance this for match maker is whenever someone selects a clan mech it takes up 2 mech slots on a team. Would probably be a good way to balance it out.

Thoughts?

Well for one, I think the idea that anyone can buy their way into clan Mechs goes against the implied elite status that you are exulting on the Clans. I can see the uproar when clan 3 mans are defeated by IS 12 mans.
Clan Mechs are NERFed!
how on earth can numbers matter I am Clan Maltese falcon!
I was told that if i had a clan mech that i could win every time!
PGI how dare you fail to provide me with the ultimate gaming experience, I only started today and my clan Mech is not winning!

Clan ideology focuses on individualism, no communication once battle commences, and one on one fighting. The Clans have designed Mechs over years of trial and error that have very strict and limited weapon combinations, so don't expect the clan Mechs to be turned into weapon boats, or to be more customizable than selecting option a, b, c, or d.

Any of the Innersphere chassis' is more than capable of defeating a like sized clan chassis with weapons upgraded to clan specifications. Anyone that is looking forward to clan tech for LORE reasons, has to understand that the Innersphere started winning once they got the weapons systems.

Team work, Communications, and Focus will defeat any opponent that you can possibly face.
This is what it means to be an elite member of any fighting force.

If you want clan Mechs to mean anything they have to bring something more to the table that just being better at min/max weapon builds.

[CyclonerM]

Kyle Lewis, on 05 December 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Clan ideology focuses on individualism, no communication once battle commences, and one on one fighting. The Clans have designed Mechs over years of trial and error that have very strict and limited weapon combinations, so don't expect the clan Mechs to be turned into weapon boats, or to be more customizable than selecting option a, b, c, or d.

Limited weapon combinations? Their weapon loadouts are supposed to be far more easily customizable than regular Battlemechs

Quote

Any of the Innersphere chassis' is more than capable of defeating a like sized clan chassis with weapons upgraded to clan specifications. Anyone that is looking forward to clan tech for LORE reasons, has to understand that the Innersphere started winning once they got the weapons systems.

Clan specifications? Do you mean Star League era tech or the new 3060+ weapons?
However, i think you are forgetting Twycross, Wolcott, & Tukayyid happen far before 3060

[Kyle Lewis]

CyclonerM, on 05 December 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Limited weapon combinations? Their weapon loadouts are supposed to be far more easily customizable than regular Battlemechs

Clan specifications? Do you mean Star League era tech or the new 3060+ weapons?
However, i think you are forgetting Twycross, Wolcott, & Tukayyid happen far before 3060

The clan builds have the variants already spelled out, at least according to the lore there would be no choice but one of the predetermined variants. however the "we are clan because its the best way to win the game" players, are going to want to do that very thing to allow them to continue the boat is best mentality.

Personally I am running a victor with ER PPC, LRM 15 + Artemis and AC/20, and a thunderbolt with 2 ER Large, 2 MED and 2 LRM 15+ Artemis, and a jumping T-bolt with ER large, 2 Med, and 2 LRM 15. and finding them to be better that pure laser or pure LRM boats.

You are correct those battles did happen before the tech was out, although there was limited lost tech available to those battles, however they do still support my statement that numbers and teamwork, communications and focus fire are the elements that allowed those victories, unfortunately at high casualty numbers, which would have been mitigated by better tech on the side of the IS troops.

[CyclonerM]

Kyle Lewis, on 05 December 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

You are correct those battles did happen before the tech was out, although there was limited lost tech available to those battles, however they do still support my statement that numbers and teamwork, communications and focus fire are the elements that allowed those victories, unfortunately at high casualty numbers, which would have been mitigated by better tech on the side of the IS troops.

Exactly! I mean that Inner Sphere troops won against the Clans even without the best tech available (not true for Com Guards however).

And those variants are probably only for the tabletop (you know, they had to make the minis!) so just some "standard" variants, now i am too tired to search in the novels something to quote as Jaroth would do, but i know that it is easier for a Clan MechWarrior to get his 'Mech weapon loadout changed to fit his tastes/abilities rather than an Inner Sphere MechWarrior.
And i actually think boating may not be a problem: increased heat & ghost heat will discourage them enough. And sized hardpoints may have helped..

[White Bear 84]

Alwrath, on 18 November 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

They were always out numbered but would often win due to the superior mech chassis and pilot skills.

My question is, are they going to be true to the lore and implemented this way so that a team of Clan mechs will be fewer in number compared to a team of IS mechs on the battlefield?

Not all pilots MWO who want to be clanners are actually going to be good pilots......

[Kyle Lewis]

CyclonerM, on 05 December 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Exactly! I mean that Inner Sphere troops won against the Clans even without the best tech available (not true for Com Guards however).

And those variants are probably only for the tabletop (you know, they had to make the minis!) so just some "standard" variants, now i am too tired to search in the novels something to quote as Jaroth would do, but i know that it is easier for a Clan MechWarrior to get his 'Mech weapon loadout changed to fit his tastes/abilities rather than an Inner Sphere MechWarrior.
And i actually think boating may not be a problem: increased heat & ghost heat will discourage them enough. And sized hardpoints may have helped..

Lets hope with the implementation of the CW that roles will start playing a larger part of the match, and collision will come back soon to stop the current light Mechs standing toe to toe with assault Mechs,

[NocturnalBeast]

Sudden, on 29 November 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

clan mechs should stay within lore, with speed, weapon load outs and more. balance should come from something else. i say hang the damn game balance. the game will become more tactical that way. and more fun. atm its just rush fight and win or lose. anyway if they can at some piont make salvage part of the game. it will balance the game quickly

It would definitely be balanced then, because no one would play IS anymore.

[SumoRex]

This!

Ed Steele, on 05 December 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

It would definitely be balanced then, because no one would play IS anymore.

Absolutely true.

IMO, everyone who wants to play clan just want guaranteed wins...
(Sorry if you're an exception, but let me hear how you as a clanner would REALLY make it balanced. Not just "balanced, but still in favour of the clans", but balanced equally... Like *BALANCED*

bal·ance [bal-uhns]
noun
1. a state of equilibrium or equipoise; equal distribution of weight, amount, etc.
2. something used to produce equilibrium; counterpoise.

[CyclonerM]

SumoRex, on 13 December 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

This!


Absolutely true.

IMO, everyone who wants to play clan just want guaranteed wins...
(Sorry if you're an exception, but let me hear how you as a clanner would REALLY make it balanced. Not just "balanced, but still in favour of the clans", but balanced equally... Like *BALANCED*

bal·ance [bal-uhns]
noun
1. a state of equilibrium or equipoise; equal distribution of weight, amount, etc.
2. something used to produce equilibrium; counterpoise.

It would take too much time to find all my posts about this issue. Maybe some day i will just collect my thoughts in a thread.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sudden, on 29 November 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

clan mechs should stay within lore, with speed, weapon load outs and more. balance should come from something else. i say hang the damn game balance. the game will become more tactical that way. and more fun. atm its just rush fight and win or lose. anyway if they can at some piont make salvage part of the game. it will balance the game quickly

Every Mech that is being Nerfed, is comparable to a Clan Mech already!

6PPC Stalker=Supernova (Same damage curve)
Jager40=Hunchback IIC (minus Double tap)
Gausspult=Glass Spider
SRMCat=Timber Wolf-D (o as close as can be made so far)

Every attempt to make Clan builds have been cried about. Its a shame so many don't want to battle builds That exist in universe!

FYI. A dove right in and trained against those builds till I could reliably beat them.

I am A Lyran And I approved those builds for my Clan enemy!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 December 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 December 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Its a shame so many don't want to battle builds That exist in universe!

Well, in the case of the Timberwolf D I would - simply because many people tend to forget that two of the four StreakSRM6 are aiming at the rear (every developer so far choose to ignore this).
And I think many other players would do the same, IF they stand a reasonable chance to take it out alone. "I took this 'Mech down" simply sound better then "I helped taking this 'Mech down".

[Joseph Mallan]

Thorn Hallis, on 13 December 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Well, in the case of the Timberwolf D I would - simply because many people tend to forget that two of the four StreakSRM6 are aiming at the rear (every developer so far choose to ignore this).
And I think many other players would do the same, IF they stand a reasonable chance to take it out alone. "I took this 'Mech down" simply sound better then "I helped taking this 'Mech down".

That's the point It won't have rear facing weapons. My (F)Atlas is supposed to have 2 Mediums facing Aft and they are facing front

[Blacksoul1987]

Joe I know you want to face superior clan tech but....... I sincerely believe there will not be enough of you spheroids left for us clanners to face smash.

[Joseph Mallan]

Blacksoul1987, on 13 December 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

Joe I know you want to face superior clan tech but....... I sincerely believe there will not be enough of you spheroids left for us clanners to face smash.

Once again putting the cart before the horse. There will be enough of us to give you target prac... I mean a challenge!

Even if it mean you have to wait in line to be defeated by just me! Talk about a circle of equals!