85 replies to this topic

[Treye Snow]

First of all, I'm glad PGI is implementing base defense to dissuade cap games from that single lance of lights bumrushing the cap.


However...

I facepalmed pretty bad when i saw they're 2xMG 2xSL...

Now, thankfully they covered their butts and noted it may change. Hopefully they upgrade it to ML's instead of SL's. Ironically, since Small Lasers have such comical range by design, these turrets wont reach out to anything nor do enough damage to really have any effect on anything short of infantry.

I feel it should be a moderate challenge for a light to cap a base. SL's and MG's aren't a challenge, they're laughable.

What do you guys think?

http://mwomercs.com/...0089-breakdown/

-Added link

Edited by Mr Terribad, 19 November 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[Davers]

Well, it's something that has to be taken care of before you can cap. Thats what people wanted, right?

Or would you rather have something that would kill any light that tries to cap?

Edited by Davers, 19 November 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[Endarius]

I think it's a ******* brilliant idea. I also am not too worried about the seemingly low power of the defenses. It will still be enough to dissuade a lone light mech from beelining at the start of the match (this sort of idiocy is often detrimental to the team with the capper anyway but it's still annoying), and it will also create at least a slightly larger buffer between the start of the match and the time when you have to start worrying about a basecap. Noone is going to just sit on the enemy base 1 minute after the match if they are taking flak from machine guns and teensie lasers.

[Mechteric]

Probably should be 2 medium lasers with 2 MG, also when its under attack the entire team should get notified. Otherwise a 2PPC Jenner can just snipe those turrets away and cap with impunity anyway. It will also depend on how much armor these turrets have, will it take a 6 small pulse jenner only a few alphas to destroy, or several?

[Rawyn]

Endarius, on 19 November 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

I think it's a ******* brilliant idea. I also am not too worried about the seemingly low power of the defenses. It will still be enough to dissuade a lone light mech from beelining at the start of the match

Agreed. Need to see how it plays out eventually. Small Fleas (haha) should be scared of, or at least think twice about running into bases uncovered. If a lance of assaults is entering your base, which is only defended by turrets at that moment, then something else went wrong.

[Tombstoner]

i wonder how they will handle the targeting skill of the defense turrets.... no reason they can't score head shots all the time.
i'm sure it will be RNG to give players a chance. base turrets are not supposed to be the deciding factor in a base capture game.

the weapons should be powerful but have a generator near by that can be destroyed with some effort.

[ShinVector]

Endarius, on 19 November 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

I think it's a ******* brilliant idea. I also am not too worried about the seemingly low power of the defenses. It will still be enough to dissuade a lone light mech from beelining at the start of the match (this sort of idiocy is often detrimental to the team with the capper anyway but it's still annoying), and it will also create at least a slightly larger buffer between the start of the match and the time when you have to start worrying about a basecap. Noone is going to just sit on the enemy base 1 minute after the match if they are taking flak from machine guns and teensie lasers.

What makes you think base defences can't be destroyed by a medium laser ?

[Treye Snow]

Davers, on 19 November 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Well, it's something that has to be taken care of before you can cap. Thats what people wanted, right?

Or would you rather have something that would kill any light that tries to cap?

Nah, I'm glad it's a step in the right direction. I'm merely suggesting they're upgraded to 2x ML instead of the Smalls. Most Lights carry mediums, which outrange turrets by more than double and allow a light to literally stand still and kill the turret without any danger beyond the measly 180m Max range of SL's.

[Heffay]

If they have 100 points of armor, it might take a while to whittle through it. And they can be set up so that long range sniping isn't feasible (for example, the only line to the turret requires the sniper to be in the open.

Maybe 50 pts of armor, 50 internal (so you can crit the weapons)... this is pretty interesting!

[FearNotDeath]

Are they going to give c-bills for destroying them?

Will people end up just running lights to farm the turrets at the start of every match?

[Davers]

Mr Terribad, on 19 November 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Nah, I'm glad it's a step in the right direction. I'm merely suggesting they're upgraded to 2x ML instead of the Smalls. Most Lights carry mediums, which outrange turrets by more than double and allow a light to literally stand still and kill the turret without any danger beyond the measly 180m Max range of SL's.

Heffay, on 19 November 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

If they have 100 points of armor, it might take a while to whittle through it. And they can be set up so that long range sniping isn't feasible (for example, the only line to the turret requires the sniper to be in the open.

Maybe 50 pts of armor, 50 internal (so you can crit the weapons)... this is pretty interesting!

Depending on where the turret/turrets are placed it could mean the light won't be able to hide behind the oil rig and has to be exposed to kill the turret.

In the end, it slows down the time to cap for one light. As for a light lance? Dunno.

[Kanajashi]

This is a great idea. While it wont make your base comepletely uncappable, it at least gives an additional buffer between your base and that group of lights. While the turrets might be low on firepower with only 2x MG or 2x SL, they havent said anything about how many turrets will be at the points. If there are 5 or 6 turrets spread around it might take a while to open up the base for capping.

Personally I want to see a Calliope or two at each base

Edited by Kanajashi, 19 November 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[Treye Snow]

Tombstoner, on 19 November 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

i wonder how they will handle the targeting skill of the defense turrets.... no reason they can't score head shots all the time.
i'm sure it will be RNG to give players a chance. base turrets are not supposed to be the deciding factor in a base capture game.

the weapons should be powerful but have a generator near by that can be destroyed with some effort.

I disagree on the generator. Turrets should be entirely self sufficient and not have any weaknesses other than being outranged or outgunned.

Remember, these are meant to be essentially fly swatters, The only thing they sould be able to kill is a sitting light, and keep them away long enough for an RTB.

I personally feel SL's are far too under-ranged to be any effective at either role. The only way I will be satisfied with them keeping SL's and not upgrading to ML's is if Betty goes "ENEMY SIGHTED" when a turret spots an enemy -OR/AND- Betty yells at us the base is under attack the moment a turret is hit by enemy fire.

[ShinVector]

Heffay, on 19 November 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

If they have 100 points of armor, it might take a while to whittle through it. And they can be set up so that long range sniping isn't feasible (for example, the only line to the turret requires the sniper to be in the open.

Maybe 50 pts of armor, 50 internal (so you can crit the weapons)... this is pretty interesting!

Considering that I normally carry ERLL in my lights now a days. I don't mind free XP and Cbills for target practice.
They soon realise... Yup.. Many of their maps are too small.

Gonna Laugh... When the turrets start equiping ERPPCs when they detect relatively high ELO players...

Edited by ShinVector, 19 November 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Sounds tiny to the point that might be a consumable module like UAV with the upgraded version having AMS and can only be deployed in a friendly base zone

[Trauglodyte]

I like the idea. The thing is, though, this really only affects games on Assault and the up and coming Attack/Defend mode. On all of the maps, there is enough usable terrain to stay back and defend your base against the push. The problem, though, is that PUGGERs seem to think that you've got to bum rush the center in order to be effective and nobody wants to be responsible and RTB (or you get the entire team RTB in which case you get shot in the butt and die horribly).

Ultimately, all of this could have been avoided if PGI had done two things:

• Put a mech weight factor on capping speed (an Atlas should be able to cap 5x faster than a Locust)
  
• Have the cap time be concrete slow at the beginning but gradually increase as the game goes faster

[Neanot]

I hope the turrets also light up enemy mechs on the battlegrid so that you can get a missile lock on them from afar. It would seem implausible that an automated turret, which would need to get a lock to be able to track and fire at an enemy, couldn't also broadcast that data to friendly mechs.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Since they are just starting with the concept, I see nothing wrong with short-range weapons meant for Base Defense against infantry and light vehicles. That's probably their main purpose, anyways, because a BattleMech will chew through typical light base defenses at range - that's a given. Light Arms meant to defend the base from a small ground force would be typical around the Inner Sphere.

However... the light weapons on the base (2MG or 2SL) would be sufficient to prevent unarmed mechs from capping. If you lose all your weapons, you won't be able to just sit on their base and Cap or else be chewed to bits. This will be interesting, as many players who lose their weapons merely go for basecap. Now, they'll have to employ someone's help to cap a base, or try and use an Artillery strike to clear the defences (which may be inadequate for the job).

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 November 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Davers]

Trauglodyte, on 19 November 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I like the idea. The thing is, though, this really only affects games on Assault and the up and coming Attack/Defend mode. On all of the maps, there is enough usable terrain to stay back and defend your base against the push. The problem, though, is that PUGGERs seem to think that you've got to bum rush the center in order to be effective and nobody wants to be responsible and RTB (or you get the entire team RTB in which case you get shot in the butt and die horribly).

Ultimately, all of this could have been avoided if PGI had done two things:

• Put a mech weight factor on capping speed (an Atlas should be able to cap 5x faster than a Locust)
  
• Have the cap time be concrete slow at the beginning but gradually increase as the game goes faster

You don't think every base in Conquest having one of these won't change the game any?

[Roadbeer]

I'm a fan of this whole idea.

As far as bigger weapons. Lets start small and work our way up (Like with Arty/Air).

Better to have them weak and room for improvement, than OP and wait 6 months to be fixed.