275 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

Heck, MWO does it even better: You can play the game and you never even need to pay at all!

only counts for the individual, but in general, its not true, if no one pays, the game would be gone. and OMG, see its gone, you would not even be able to paly it anymore even if you threw 10000$ at it, while my MW3 still is playable.

[Heffay]

Lily from animove, on 22 January 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:

only counts for the individual, but in general, its not true, if no one pays, the game would be gone. and OMG, see its gone, you would not even be able to paly it anymore even if you threw 10000$ at it, while my MW3 still is playable.

I'll always have the models. I can play with those forever!

[Wolf486]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

You really think you're fooling anyone, Werewolf486? Your history of posting on MWO even today across various forums isn't a secret.

Wow, you think so little of me. Like I really thought using my other account would fool anyone. I give people more credit than you evidently. omg they'll never suspect its Werewolf486 if I use Wolf486...tehehe. Oh you poor thing.

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

And there will be a grind in HGA as well. You don't buy the game and then have access to every piece of equipment right out of the gate. You have to spend TEC to get upgrades, and they've already stated in big red letters that pay for convenience *will* be a thing in HGA.

I never said there wouldn't be a need to make in game money. I said it wouldn't be a grind and you don't have to constantly keep up with the Joneses. You can drop in your first gears for as long as you like and if you feel like getting another gear you can but it's not necessary to. The game is being balanced in a way that no one gear will be the best thing since air. A skilled pilot in a low Threat Value gear could take a high Threat Value gear, the equipment is meant to improve your play style and not make a gear OP. As for being able to buy in game items with real money, yes that is a thing for convenience but even if you bought everything in the store you still can suffer a loss at the hands of someone with the base pack. Thank you for allowing me to clarify that more.

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

Keep putting down MWO and PGI. That will really help sell HGA...

The funny thing is quite a few of our players, including me played or still play MWO while we wait for our teams or friends to get their access. So while you say I'm putting down MWO I think they did that themselves, I just state facts about it and make the comparisons to show how HGA and MekTek are different then MWO and PGI. I'm glad to see that PGI is trying to do better and I applaud them for that, but for me it's just to late for them to make things right, and I'm afraid I won't ever trust in them again. I know their track record and I know MekTeks after being a part of their community for like a decade. They've never once tried to put me on an island.

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

Here's a link to their store:

http://heavygear.com/store

Thank you, I didn't realize I hadn't posted that.

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

You're telling me that if you buy the game, you can either buy the Riley M202 20mm Very Light Autocannon for $0.95, or get it instantly for free?

I'm telling you that you need to read the game packs to see what you will get and as I stated the rest of the stuff in the store allows you to add on kind of À la carte style right from the start. Everything though will be available to purchase with in game moneys (TEC).

Cha-ink...there's that armor again Heffay!

Edited by Wolf486, 22 January 2015 - 09:48 AM.

[Heffay]

According to your logic, you never need to upgrade a mech in MWO either. Elo will ensure you'll be put into matches that are appropriate for both your skill level and the mech you run. Sure, you *can* get modules and max out the pilot trees, but there is no need, since if you get to 1800 Elo with a mech still in its basics, you are competitive against the other people around 1800 who are running their fully tweaked out meta mechs. You offset the mech they are running by being far more skilled.

Elo, Threat Value... they are both matchmaking tools. One is dynamic and self correcting, and the other is maintenance intensive and leads to unfixable meta builds. However, HGA will have to use the one that supports their player base, so... yeah.

Keep on putting down MWO though. It's doing wonders for your community.

[Wolf486]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

According to your logic, you never need to upgrade a mech in MWO either. Elo will ensure you'll be put into matches that are appropriate for both your skill level and the mech you run. Sure, you *can* get modules and max out the pilot trees, but there is no need, since if you get to 1800 Elo with a mech still in its basics, you are competitive against the other people around 1800 who are running their fully tweaked out meta mechs. You offset the mech they are running by being far more skilled.

I'm confused are you saying Elo is broken in MWO or trying to put words in my mouth? I never said any of that about MWO, in fact its quite the opposite if you don't grind grind grind to buy DHS and other important game changing equipment you can't be competitive. In fact from your very first drop in MWO you aren't competitive just based on the equipment you get matched against since game changing equipment like DHS effectively doubles your ability to alpha. In HGA while there will be better radar then the one that comes in your gear stock there will be upgraded units to provide better intel or faster intel but nothing that is such a fundimantal shift as what we see in MWO with stock vs custom load outs. Everything in HGA will have a Threat Value assigned to it and that can make for more stock v stock instead of I took a stock mech I just bought and got one shotted after putting 3 alphas into the CT of that custom mech.

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Elo, Threat Value... they are both matchmaking tools. One is dynamic and self correcting, and the other is maintenance intensive and leads to unfixable meta builds. However, HGA will have to use the one that supports their player base, so... yeah.

At this point I'm starting to think you work for PGI and control their matchmaking Elo system since you seem so defensive about it. It's almost like you're Bryan or Russ. As for Meta Builds, it's kinda hard to have an OP meta in HGA with a weapon in each hand and a shoulder mounted weapon like a rocket pod. The alpha in HGA isn't like a 10 ERPPC Direwhale is over in MWO. You can't mount 10 weapons on a Gear and go fight since they are 5-15 tons instead of up to 100 tons. Fighting style is WAY different and it takes a different approach to the game then MW ever has and once they get the melee weapons in it's totally going to change. I personally find the change from MW a wonderful thing and enjoy the different game modes they have now and are working on for the future. I can't wait till I can pick up an enemy arm or a street lamp post and swing for the fences!

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Keep on putting down MWO though. It's doing wonders for your community.

I've already answered that one. Any more questions from the community?

[Heffay]

Wolf486, on 22 January 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

Any more questions from the community?

Who is funding the development of the game? Canadian tax dollars?

[Goosfraba]

As for HG, I'll wait till it's F2P.

[Wolf486]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

Who is funding the development of the game? Canadian tax dollars?

That I don't know, but correct me on if MWO was or Transverse was. Mechwarrior Tactics was, that's why IGP is in a heap of trouble. So if MWO or Transverse was then why would it make a difference if HGA was, not saying they are since I don't know that answer. Also I'm not sure how or why you'd be concerned with that unless you worked for PGI.

[Heffay]

Is Pada Vinson an employee or just a volunteer mod?

[Strum Wealh]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

Then you don't understand Elo. TVs will lead to even more one sided stomps in the long run, because a 900 Elo pilot in a Dire Whale is still lunch to a 2200 Elo Jenner pilot.

Actually, a TV-influenced system would mean that, based on the match limit (with TV 1000 & TV 5000 being common, and TV 500 & TV 99999 (effectively unlimited) not being unheard-of, in the heyday of Heavy Gear II), a basic Kodiak (TV 1073; roughly equivalent in function to, say, an Atlas) might not be able to launch against a basic Hunter (TV 380; roughly equivalent in function to, say, a Centurion) or a basic Cheetah (TV 626; roughly equivalent in function to, say, a Jenner).
In the case of a TV 1000 match, the Kodiak might have to shed some weapons/armor/equipment to come in under the limit, while the Hunter & Cheetah could add more weapons and/or exchange their base weapons for more potent arms, add armor or additional equipment, and so on (so long as they remained under the TV limit).

The TV system is designed to ensure that all parties have the ability to start on the same footing in terms of equipment; one could certainly elect to take a Gear well below the match's TV limit - that is the player's choice, and any consequences of doing so are theirs to bear.

Though, it sounds like your issue is that a TV-only matchmaking system would allow for a disparity in pilot skill within a match - that is, a "veteran" player with hundreds of matches and a customized TV 375 Hunter (say, with an Assault Hunter style loadout & a few extra TV-lowering Flaws thrown in) could play in the same TV 400 match as a "novice" player in their first-ever match with a stock TV 380 Hunter. Or, for that matter, both the "veteran" and the "novice" could both be fielding stock Hunters - they'd be perfectly matched in terms of equipment, but mismatched in terms of relative ability/skill.
Is that a reasonably-accurate assessment?

As previously quoted, the HGA devs (specifically, Wildcard - aka John Nguyen, VP of Stompy Bot & former marketing director of Dream Pod 9) indicated that matches would be based on the idea of players entering (and setting-up) lobbies prior to the match actually starting ("...the intent is to have lobbies as well and not some random matchmaking system that is so prevalent in today's games..."), and that "there will be tournaments and seasons... that will have certain entrance requirements..." - it is not unreasonable or unthinkable that match count, ladder rank, and K/D ratio (among other things, and either singly or in combination) could/would be among these "certain entrance requirements".

Additionally, the fact that it is to be lobby-based would (or, at least, should) mean that players would have some idea of what they are getting into before the match starts in terms of who they might be playing against - getting a feel for whether one is about to play (or not play) against a group of old-hands or a group of newbies (or a fairly well-mixed group) should be easy to ascertain from the in-lobby talk/text.

[Wolf486]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

Is Pada Vinson an employee or just a volunteer mod?

I'm not telling.....

Cha-ink pop, oh that sounded terrible!

Goosfraba, on 22 January 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

As for HG, I'll wait till it's F2P.

That's not planned. You have to buy the game to play the game, no Free to Play as that business model seems to be loosing its luster and is actually being shown as detrimental in some cases.

Edited by Wolf486, 22 January 2015 - 01:05 PM.

[Goosfraba]

Wolf486, on 22 January 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

That's not planned. You have to buy the game to play the game, no Free to Play.

Guess I'll have to wait, I'm interested in the game, but it seems I'm not the type of customer the devs are looking for right now. I'll consider a purchase once they lift the NDA and there is more information available.

Edited by Goosfraba, 22 January 2015 - 01:09 PM.

[Wolf486]

Goosfraba, on 22 January 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Guess I'll have to wait, I'm interested in the game, but it seems I'm not the type of customer the devs are looking for right now. I'll consider a purchase once they lift the NDA and there is more information available.

You could go join the forums and see things first hand, ask questions. You may find some really interesting reading over there that answers questions you may have or even show you things that help you out with your concerns. Lots of people willing to answer questions and help, including the actual devs!

[RaptorRage]

Best way to keep up to date with regards to new detailed information regarding announcements and the progress of HGA development is to read the From the Devs threads, notably the Producer Updates which often will reveal the latest in-game screenshots and gameplay videos along with concept art, maps and models.

[Heffay]

Goosfraba, on 22 January 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

Guess I'll have to wait, I'm interested in the game, but it seems I'm not the type of customer the devs are looking for right now. I'll consider a purchase once they lift the NDA and there is more information available.

HGA begs to differ with Werewolf486 regarding F2P:



Maybe that was just their position at the time. Or maybe they plan on doing the ESO and SWTOR method of going F2P; i.e. not planned but doing it anyway.

Edited by Heffay, 22 January 2015 - 01:40 PM.

[Wolf486]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

HGA begs to differ with Werewolf486 regarding F2P:



Maybe that was just their position at the time. Or maybe they plan on doing the ESO and SWTOR method of going F2P; i.e. not planned but doing it anyway.

Oh Heffay you try so hard....They changed their business model, I told you that. They do not support F2P with their new business model and moved away from it a short time ago. I understand the confusion when you look up old outdated "facts" which are subject to change in a desperate attempt to discredit me. It's ok you can try again.

Taken from the store page Heffay was kind enough to link for me earlier in the thread:

Main Game Packs

A Game Pack is required to play Heavy Gear Assault. Pick the pack that best fits you, pilot!
Alpha Wave 2 Sale: Buy a pack between now and January 31, 2015 to gain access to the Alpha!

Edited by Wolf486, 22 January 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[Blackfang]

I really enjoy playing both MWO and HGA. Both stompy robot IPs that I love and happy to support both endeavours. MWO had a great start and then hit a seriously rocky patch, how much of that was down to IGP and PGI respectively I guess we'll never truly know but they've turned a new leaf and the game is picking back up nicely. HGA development continues at a steady pace, true not as quick as some other development studios but the work that they are doing and signing off to Alpha test is completely solid and very enjoyable and the new art take on the gears look great, the latest producers update shows just how far they've come in terms of company growth truly taking mektek WAY beyond that Mech4 mod team we all know and love

I'm registered for the tournament and I hope to see a few more of you in there, of maybe you'll catch me fighting along the Davion borders in MWO faction warfare.

[Heffay]

Strum Wealh, on 22 January 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

Though, it sounds like your issue is that a TV-only matchmaking system would allow for a disparity in pilot skill within a match - that is, a "veteran" player with hundreds of matches and a customized TV 375 Hunter (say, with an Assault Hunter style loadout & a few extra TV-lowering Flaws thrown in) could play in the same TV 400 match as a "novice" player in their first-ever match with a stock TV 380 Hunter. Or, for that matter, both the "veteran" and the "novice" could both be fielding stock Hunters - they'd be perfectly matched in terms of equipment, but mismatched in terms of relative ability/skill.
Is that a reasonably-accurate assessment?

As previously quoted, the HGA devs (specifically, Wildcard - aka John Nguyen, VP of Stompy Bot & former marketing director of Dream Pod 9) indicated that matches would be based on the idea of players entering (and setting-up) lobbies prior to the match actually starting ("...the intent is to have lobbies as well and not some random matchmaking system that is so prevalent in today's games..."), and that "there will be tournaments and seasons... that will have certain entrance requirements..." - it is not unreasonable or unthinkable that match count, ladder rank, and K/D ratio (among other things, and either singly or in combination) could/would be among these "certain entrance requirements".

Additionally, the fact that it is to be lobby-based would (or, at least, should) mean that players would have some idea of what they are getting into before the match starts in terms of who they might be playing against - getting a feel for whether one is about to play (or not play) against a group of old-hands or a group of newbies (or a fairly well-mixed group) should be easy to ascertain from the in-lobby talk/text.

How are you going to tell who is in your lobby? What ranking system can someone use to determine how seasoned their opponents are? What happens in a lobby if all the vets take one side and the new players hop on the other? "Oh, it's all sorted by TV so all the mechs will be similar in power"? We both know that won't work.

I don't know of any modern games that use a "random" matchmaking system as Wildcard seems to think. And lobbies work for side matches and for a limited portion of the player base, but when Evernoob420 signs on and hops into a lobby asking if he can play, I'm pretty sure his welcome will be... tempered. They need a "Play now" option that generates matches for them, and if *that* is balanced just with Threat Value, those matches will be feeding grounds for the vets and their tweaked out underrepresented mechs.

I've been staunchly against using BV in MWO for exactly the same reasons. Elo works. Almost every modern game uses some version of it, for good reason. It creates the best matches out of all the possible matchmaking options, because the math just works.

For an e-sport title, I'm going to be extremely surprised if they don't figure this out early in the dev cycle.

[Wolf486]

Wow Heffay you really seem to be freakin out over this, lol. You're speculating an awful lot on how HGA is going to work with using their system....we know how MWO works with Elo, again pointing out 12-0 stomps and frustrated players.

Maybe if there was a way to match 10 ERPPC Direwhale against another 10 ERPPC Direwhale rather then against a 5 ERPPC Stalkerboat. Maybe if a drop didn't pit some new player in a stock Awesome against a seasoned veteran with a custom build Direwhale?

It remains to be seen how HGA's system will work out, but I'm ready for something different then Mecha and Elo.

Edited by Wolf486, 22 January 2015 - 02:48 PM.

[RedDragon]

Heffay, on 22 January 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

I've been staunchly against using BV in MWO for exactly the same reasons. Elo works.

Bwahahaha!
Oh wait, you were serious?

Elo can never work in a game like MWO if it isn't combined with some kind of BV system. You can't compare it to a shooter where every player starts with the same gear. That's like saying Elo works when it matches two generic shooter players of arguably the same skill, one starts with only a knife and the other with a SMG or sniper rifle and full body armor.