67 replies to this topic

[Saladin Salazar]

I am astounded at the number of bridges in this thread.

[Heffay]

Farix, on 21 November 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

And finally, if the Templar players aren't participating in the tournaments, why are you complaining? The Templars are the only ones making the enforcement of the conduct rules into an issue. Why are the Templar's speaking on behalf of the tournament organizers and participants?

Good question. Is it the Templar's official policy that 12 man sync drops should be allowed to suicide at the start of a match?

Not that they participate in the tournaments, of course. Or ever sync drop...

[Roadbeer]

Saladin Salazar, on 21 November 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

I am astounded at the number of bridges in this thread.

[Ehecatl]

Egomane, on 21 November 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

That's not the sole reason this thread has been send here.

The OP is also criticizing that PGI is actually enforcing the rules, which are as much a part of the game as the game itself. You can't have one without the other. This specific rule is available in written form since November 29, 2012.

The tournament players, on whose behalf the post was made (yes, even if the templars themself do not particiapte, you are taking sides here (why aren't the actual tournament players complaining?)), who deny other 12-man teams the joy of a battle, because they believe their tournament somehow to be more important than rules or other players. They found themself a match and the other side is willing to give them a good time.

Thank you for your reply. I understand your position, though I'm curious as to how we are meant to petition for a change of the rules if "PGI enforces the rules" is a jettisonable complaint? Should we e-mail support?

Regarding your explanation, I would dare disagree. Bandit explains it in his OP using different words, but the content is the same as in my argument: perhaps for some team out there "the joy of battle" simply means shooting at another 'mech. However, my (and my teammates') personal experience is that there is not joy to be had in a fight where the opponent's primary motivation is not to have a good game, but to have a quick game.

Conceivably I could be wrong. Perhaps most tournament-participating teams enjoy missing their syncs for hours on end and play fully engaged, satisfying games regardless. The complaints we get for filling up the queue – the validity of which are a different conversation altogether – are an indicator they don't.

Egomane, on 21 November 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

In MWO the Matchmaker is the official scheduler for all matches and IGP and PGI are the officials who make and enforce the rules. Player created leagues, while a welcome sight to the game, are not free to ignore the officials, if they want to use assets provided to them by the game. They can work within the rules and with the scheduler to create their own sub-system, but they will always be a part of the whole game and have to adapt to incorporate the default rules into their own creation or face punishment if they do not.

...and they have! Tournament participants aren't suiciding anymore, since they were told to stop. But remember that the various community tournaments were born to cover for the delay in features that would make this discussion moot. They're there to keep a notable part of the community engaged in the game. If these rule changes impact these player segments enough to damage their interest in the game, and we can observe these effects first-hand, should we not bring them to public attention?

In a sports setting, enough teams could just secede and start their own league, or play on private fields. However, the options significantly narrow down when there's a single instance that owns all the fields and all the equipment in the world. Perhaps enough for many teams to choose another sport altogether, which, in my opinion, would be a loss for all of us.

---

Heffay, on 21 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Good question. Is it the Templar's official policy that 12 man sync drops should be allowed to suicide at the start of a match?

Let me just bring your attention to this excerpt:

Banditman, on 19 November 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Do I like it when we finally get a match in the 12 man queue and the team we're playing says "Sorry, missed sync" and then suicides? No, I hate it. But I understand it. Forcing that team to play a match it doesn't want is hurting the entire 12 man queue.

The three or four paragraphs following that in the OP are also relevant, but I'll save some space by not repeating them here.

Edited by Ehecatl, 21 November 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[Egomane]

Ehecatl, on 21 November 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Thank you for your reply. I understand your position, though I'm curious as to how we are meant to petition for a change of the rules if "PGI enforces the rules" is a jettisonable complaint? Should we e-mail support?

Exactly that!

If you are unsatisfied with a rule, bring it to the attention of the support team. State your reasons, make examples, politly say whatever you feel might sway them to change the rules to your liking.

Destined, on 21 November 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

I'm probably on a watch list now for googling "bridges"

From the urban dictionary
bridges

Term used in western canada to refer to a guy that looks like a greasy itilian pirate, not unlike captain morgan. Also known to make really good chilli, and manage to pick up girls when out of town for work.

That seems to describe me nicely. Well... except for the Captain Morgan or the pick up girls when out of town for work parts. But I do make a pretty decent chilli.

[Ehecatl]

Egomane, on 21 November 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

If you are unsatisfied with a rule, bring it to the attention of the support team. State your reasons, make examples, politly say whatever you feel might sway them to change the rules to your liking.

Again, thanks for the clarification.

I guess my case here is spent. Back to administrating.

[Saladin Salazar]

Destined, on 21 November 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

I'm probably on a watch list now for googling "bridges"

From my experience with the government we all have done something to be put on a watch list for.

[Roadbeer]

Saladin Salazar, on 22 November 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

From my experience with the government we all have done something to be put on a watch list for.

http://online.wsj.co...438900830760842

[VikingN1nja]

Lobby for teams & random 12 man drop. Simple really.

Edited by omegaorgun, 22 November 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Roadbeer]

TOPICAL!!

[warner2]

Quote

PGI is crushing their biggest supporters by putting layer upon layer of limitations and hurdles between their game and those who are among the most interested in helping it to go as far as it will.

This times a million. It's a massive shame that PGI have done so little to encourage any sort of organised, competitive play that third-party leagues like RHOD, LMS, Inner Sphere Wars etc. are trying to provide. I think it's coming and will be here, eventually. In the mean time the game has lost players and lost teams because the game is so bare bones and repetitive. Leaving out the ability for a 12 man group to fight another, specific 12 man group for all these months is astounding really. It's the minimally viable thing they could have done to keep teams interested in MWO.

[Mystere]

Banditman, on 19 November 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

Clearly, you're not a tournament player, neither am I. However, I do know those guys and I understand their pain, you clearly do not.

What tournament? Who's the governing body? Who's the sponsor? What are the prizes?

[GrimlockONE]

Roadbeer, on 20 November 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Lulz,

Your "illustrious"

leader advocated

a violation of the

ToS/CoC.

Derp.

Not to mention

there isn't a single

provable fact in

his rant.

It's all "My friends,

cousin, sister said"

Why do you insist on posting like this?



In light of not wanting to purposely break the ToS/CoC comp teams are now going to run directly toward the enemy and/or base race.

[ApolloKaras]

Heffay, on 21 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Good question. Is it the Templar's official policy that 12 man sync drops should be allowed to suicide at the start of a match?

Not that they participate in the tournaments, of course. Or ever sync drop...

Why would one have an official policy regarding an act if the act is never done to begin with.

[Nathan Foxbane]

GrimlockONE, on 23 November 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Why do you insist on posting like this?



In light of not wanting to purposely break the ToS/CoC comp teams are now going to run directly toward the enemy and/or base race.

Heh, you should have

seen my old K-town
style. Different random justification,

every four words. It

was too much work,

so I stopped.

[Roadbeer]

GrimlockONE, on 23 November 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Why do you insist on posting like this?

Why do you choose

to justify left?

creepy

[Karl Split]

I can't say i've seen you in the 12 mans queue much there must be a timezone difference I guess. If you do want drops against oponents who want to fight you have you considered organising scrims against the other units? Most of the units in these competitions know each other well and organise fun scrims against each other each week.

The reason some teams feel they have to suicide #ugh# in 12mans is if your doing a best of 5 matches spread against an oponent with dedicated drop weights you'd be lucky to be done in a couple of hours with disconnects, changing players and messing about with who is in what mech as there is no lobby system. Add to that miss-drops and it can become a 5-6 hours torture session, no wonder several of our players refuse to do 12 mans these days.

I appreciate your sentiments tho it can be annoying. We run practices 3 odd times a week for both NA and EU timezones where we drop against all comers as well as match nights to give you an idea how much we use the 12mans queue casually.

[John Clavell]

It's just an overall sad situation that we should even be needing to discussing this. Two years on and we basically have no way for two teams to play against each other in a prearranged fashion. If PGI wants to punish teams and players for trying to sync drop then let them, it only hurts the game and the image of PGI.

We're talking about dedicated, decent people. Some of the best players in MWO who help to promote this game. Consider the effort that goes into running the 3rd party leagues, the dedication to turning up for practice in your teams. These are the players who probably spend the most money on average too. These are not trolls out to make peoples lives a misery.

Don't punish players and teams for, lets face it, a lack of service within MWO that is present in almost every other game. We're here because of that. Let's not forget this fact. And to be frank. If it was not for these efforts on the part of the competitive scene, the players and teams who make it, it would be dead. I am pretty certain that non of these teams would be here still just to play the pug experience this game has to offer.

[Glory in the Highest]

Um ... I'm not sure where you get this idea from, but things do seem to be continuing as normal in the competitive scene.

Besides, most of the time everyone rushes the center and dukes it out for a quick match. The suicides usually only happen when a match is a mulligan and both teams agree to restart it. If they're happening at other times than that, well, they probably shouldn't be but whatever.

Simplest solution, lobbies.

PS. The no-suicide "rule" has been in place since, correct me if I'm wrong, Closed Beta?

Edited by Glory, 25 November 2013 - 10:23 AM.

[MangoBogadog]

I'm not sure if PGI actually realises just how many players they have already lost because of just this. That there is not a simple system where 2 teams can select and fight one another.

Hundreds of players have been calling for this for over 18 months now.