216 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

The only oddity about jump jets currently is that 1 jet is nearly as good as many, or so I've heard... That being said, in my own experiences, you really need 2 to safely clear most obstacles.

While the upper levels of play are dominated by jump-jet mechs, there are other reasons for that:

1) Cataphract 3D = Has jumpjets, but also has 2 ballistic slots. I bet Ilya's see play at the top, too, despite not having jumpjets.
2) Victor S and B= Has jump jets, but can also mount an AC20 in the arms, which is rather rare. Also has good profile and hitboxes
3) Highlander 733C = Has jump jets, but can also mount an AC20 in the arm. Also has high-mounted energy hardpoints for sniping with PPC's

The jumpjets certainly matter, but they are not the only reason for the mechs we see in the top levels being there - the ability to mount big ballistics in good locations and snipe from cover is also huge.

[Xyroc]

Bront, on 19 November 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

This! Not to mention you can't change your vector in the air and jumping backwards is harder now.

It's possible they need to adjust JJ's vertical lift so 1 JJ isn't as effective as it is. I've heard rumors that there was an error where a single JJ was as effective as full JJs, but I have not seen any evidence of this myself.

At one time this was true .. not any more though.

[ColourfulConfetti]

St4LkeRxF, on 21 November 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Can i poptart your team to the death, leave you alone with no weapons and then come to core you from the rear?

You can certainly try, I actually poptart myself with a highlander from time to time, just to prove I've been on BOTH sides of the coin, I have decent aim but far from the l33t quickshotting skills of some of the better poptart players. But I'm not bad. Haven't seen your name in my matches, so forgive me if I'm not feeling very challenged by such a boast.

[Stingray Productions]

i always had an understanding that when your equipping JJs, that you weren't actually equipping the jets themselves. Those are already built into the mech chasis. You're more or less adding capacity tanks/fuel/or something of that sort for the JJs. hmmm, i only assume this, am i wrong?

[ColourfulConfetti]

Mercules, on 21 November 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

That is not cover. Cover that can be easily negated by the enemy but not by you is your enemy's cover, not your own. That means you are derping around in the open and not realizing it and that is why you are getting shot. Your team is doing the same.

And your assuming I don't get behind further cover, which I do, but my team doesn't always do that, which is why poptarts become so powerful, a skilled one pops off multiple shots into multiple targets, about 3, then relocates somewhere new, a bad poptart is of little concern, a skilled one turns the tide of the battle quickly. Drop the strawman, I'm not talking about myself, so the whole derping around in the open, hardly applies for myself, I do go out of the way to conceal myself when i know hes targeting me, and are you seriously saying my team should all get behind cover to avoid ONE poptart? Thats a good way to allows the enemy team to set up a flank (depending on the map) the only real way to hold ground from a poptart is to have another poptart counter him. For example, behind the dropship, our team sometimes needs to hold that ground to counter a right flank, but the poptart will then be able to tale a bunch of popshots at us while we build a firing line, moving back behind the buildings and making a firing line is not all that effective for countering a right flank.

cSand, on 21 November 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I'd say the biggest drawback to JJ's is


rtards complaining about them

No, its rtards that can't admit they are being abused.

[Joseph Mallan]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, its rtards that can't admit they are being abused.

Both sides sound like whiny babies to those of us who work out the way to defeat a style of play..

[ColourfulConfetti]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Both sides sound like whiny babies to those of us who work out the way to defeat a style of play..

Which is to have another poptart, when it comes down to it, lrms sometimes work if they don't have ecm as well, otherwise your whole team has to abandon some ground and get behind more cover to avoid damage from them.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 21 November 2013 - 09:52 AM.

[Mystere]

Diego Angelus, on 21 November 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

First this is not cry thread I hope for it be constructive and see other people opinions. What is bothering me is what do I get in return when I unequipped JJs? Yes I don't get anything I just lose mobility without being able to add anything useful to the mech. People keep talking here how JJs have drawback... you need one JJ to poptart with assault and that is 2tons and 1 slot now in what world is that a drawback ?

Then fix the 1-JJ problem with Assaults and Heavies, not kill Lights and Mediums even more by killing JJs.

Also, would the problem (i.e. poptarts with 30-50 point alphas) still be around if each weapon had it's own reticule that needed to be aimed individually instead of the instant convergence and pinpoint accuracy we now have? Well, guess what, the problem disappears entirely. So as you may eventually realize, maybe the problem is not with JJs but somewhere else.

Heck, maybe I should demand that PGI implements a separate reticule each for left arm, right arm, left torso, right torso, center torso, and head-mounted weapons. Let's see who has the skill then.

Lucian Nostra, on 21 November 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Diego you still need to learn the difference between jump jets having drawbacks and a single JJ being to effective. JJs don't need to have firing disabled when jumping or more shake, simply requiring 3-5 jets for some real effect would suffice. you keep saying JJs have no drawback and need nerfs to shooting when infact your complaint keeps coming back to how effective 1 JJ is

This, this, and most certainly this!

Edited by Mystere, 21 November 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Which is to have another poptart, when it comes down to it, lrms sometimes work if they don't have ecm as well, otherwise your whole team has to abandon some ground and get behind more cover to avoid damage from them.

I don't Jump.

2 Atlas, and a Jenner with armor lasers and speed! I do own a Shadowhawk with Jets, but I have yet to really use em in match. Not even on Heavy Metal.

[Diego Angelus]

Mystere, on 21 November 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

Then fix the 1-JJ problem with Assaults and Heavies, not kill Lights and Mediums even more by killing JJs.

Also, would the problem (i.e. poptarts with 30-50 point alphas) still be around if each weapon had it's own reticule that needed to be aimed individually instead of the instant convergence and pinpoint accuracy we now have? Well, guess what, the problem disappears entirely. So as you may eventually realize, maybe the problem is not with JJs but somewhere else.

Heck, maybe I should demand that PGI implements a separate reticule each for left arm, right arm, left torso, right torso, center torso, and head-mounted weapons. Let's see who has the skill then.



This, this, and most certainly this!

Do you even read my posts what the hell...

[Mystere]

St4LkeRxF, on 21 November 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

I could tell you what is drawback of JJ but if i do that i give away ways to take out poptarts and that would be stupid thing to do.

Maybe some self-sacrifice is in order and just tell people exactly how to do it. Otherwise, people totally incapable of dealing with poptarts will complain ad infinitum until the game is utterly destroyed. But it's your call though since you were the one who hinted on it.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

I don't Jump.

2 Atlas, and a Jenner with armor lasers and speed! I do own a Shadowhawk with Jets, but I have yet to really use em in match. Not even on Heavy Metal.

I rarely use jumpjets unless I'm playing said poptart, Lights can avoid them, yes, but atlases are one of the primary targets in any mwo game, huge assault like the atlas are usually sucking up alot of focus fire in the game, which makes it all the worse when a poptart gets a good alpha on your ct. The assualt class suffers the most from poptarts honestly, with heavys being the second most, and mediums being relatively safe like lights. Now again I don't mind terrible poptarts that miss, its the good ones that are single handedly making me consider telling my team to fall back behind more cover.

[Joseph Mallan]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

I rarely use jumpjets unless I'm playing said poptart, Lights can avoid them, yes, but atlases are one of the primary targets in any mwo game, huge assault like the atlas are usually sucking up alot of focus fire in the game, which makes it all the worse when a poptart gets a good alpha on your ct. The assualt class suffers the most from poptarts honestly, with heavys being the second most, and mediums being relatively safe like lights. Now again I don't mind terrible poptarts that miss, its the good ones that are single handedly making me consider telling my team to fall back behind more cover.

I'll be honest I don't tend to see a pop tart being anything I can't handle. A lance or more is of course a problem. But problems are for solving not having removed.

[Clit Beastwood]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Haven't seen your name in my matches, so forgive me if I'm not feeling very challenged by such a boast.

haha sweet burn

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'll be honest I don't tend to see a pop tart being anything I can't handle. A lance or more is of course a problem. But problems are for solving not having removed.

Yeah running into a coordinated 4man of high alpha pinpointers is kinda lame, but semper gumby, right?

[PappySmurf]

I hate the jump jets in MWO I don't even use them I liked the omnidirectional jump jets in Mechwarrior3 much more.--->>small vid-->>

[Mercules]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

And your assuming I don't get behind further cover, which I do, but my team doesn't always do that, which is why poptarts become so powerful, a skilled one pops off multiple shots into multiple targets, about 3, then relocates somewhere new, a bad poptart is of little concern, a skilled one turns the tide of the battle quickly. Drop the strawman, I'm not talking about myself, so the whole derping around in the open, hardly applies for myself, I do go out of the way to conceal myself when i know hes targeting me, and are you seriously saying my team should all get behind cover to avoid ONE poptart? Thats a good way to allows the enemy team to set up a flank (depending on the map) the only real way to hold ground from a poptart is to have another poptart counter him. For example, behind the dropship, our team sometimes needs to hold that ground to counter a right flank, but the poptart will then be able to tale a bunch of popshots at us while we build a firing line, moving back behind the buildings and making a firing line is not all that effective for countering a right flank.


No, its rtards that can't admit they are being abused.

So because your teammates are dumb.... something needs to be nerfed?

The solution to beating poptarts is not standing around int he area they were shooting but moving and flanking them from a different location. Hard to get PUGs to understand this but we don't balance around stupidity. A Flanking spotter and LRMs will also teach the poptart a lesson but again... teamwork.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fierostetz, on 21 November 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Yeah running into a coordinated 4man of high alpha pinpointers is kinda lame, but semper gumby, right?

Exactly. Always flexible.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I'll be honest I don't tend to see a pop tart being anything I can't handle. A lance or more is of course a problem. But problems are for solving not having removed.

Its when there are 2-3 that are good when the battle becomes one sided, yeah one usually is not too bad to handle unless they are very high teir, but it still does happen you'll get that one poptart fro ma competitive team that has the aim to turn the battle by himself, its fine if he was doing this alone by skill, but its combined with a mechanic that makes him hard to hit where you want. These type of poptarts get 800 something damage and 3 kills by themselves. I'd actualyl wouldn't mind poptarts so much if lrms were so badly shut down by ecm, even with tag, your lock on speed is so painfully slow.

[Mystere]

Diego Angelus, on 21 November 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Do you even read my posts what the hell...

Let me see ...

Diego Angelus, on 19 November 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

You can mount 2 jjs and still work fine and you call that a drawback really ?

That's not the 1-JJ problem you mentioned. Also, for an Assault, 2 JJs is equivalent to 2 criticals and 4 tons. That's more ammo and/or larger/more weapons.

Diego Angelus, on 19 November 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

If mech has JJ there is absolutely no reason not to use it because there is no real drawback so I title of this thread is correct.

See above.

Diego Angelus, on 19 November 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

I would even go to a point to increase heat considerably (all classes) but that is not good at the moment since heat system is a mess.

Another thing that is not the 1-JJ problem you mentioned.

Need I say more?

[Joseph Mallan]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Its when there are 2-3 that are good when the battle becomes one sided, yeah one usually is not too bad to handle unless they are very high teir, but it still does happen you'll get that one poptart fro ma competitive team that has the aim to turn the battle by himself, its fine if he was doing this alone by skill, but its combined with a mechanic that makes him hard to hit where you want. These type of poptarts get 800 something damage and 3 kills by themselves. I'd actualyl wouldn't mind poptarts so much if lrms were so badly shut down by ecm, even with tag, your lock on speed is so painfully slow.

So you just do your best, an accept the better team won. I don't get hung up on winning or losing. I played 6 hours last Saturday and I have no idea how many games we lost... I do see I lost a 0.01 of my K/D record.