169 replies to this topic

[Asmosis]

Has there been any clarification around what unequipped LRM/SRM's will become?

Currently they are simply "LRM's". they are not standard and they are not atremis until they are equipped to a mech.

[Deathlike]

Asmosis, on 20 November 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Has there been any clarification around what unequipped LRM/SRM's will become?

Currently they are simply "LRM's". they are not standard and they are not atremis until they are equipped to a mech.

They will be in your inventory, despite the fact you cannot equip them unless Artemis is removed from the mech.

[Felicitatem Parco]

So... does this mean I should hurry up and make sure that all of my Artemis Mechs are fully equipped with weapons? I want to make sure that I don't miss out on a chance to make a bunch of my Launchers upgraded to Artemis-status for free, because that's $100,000 a pop right there...

[Heffay]

Prosperity Park, on 20 November 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

So... does this mean I should hurry up and make sure that all of my Artemis Mechs are fully equipped with weapons? I want to make sure that I don't miss out on a chance to make a bunch of my Launchers upgraded to Artemis-status for free, because that's $100,000 a pop right there...

Yes. It's time to see exactly how many LRM-20s your A1 can really carry!

[keith]

this sounds great. kinda like MW4 how lrm-A is listed as a different wep. now just we just need hard point limits, and to have the ability to aim missiles.

[Void Angel]

Asmosis, on 20 November 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Has there been any clarification around what unequipped LRM/SRM's will become?

Currently they are simply "LRM's". they are not standard and they are not atremis until they are equipped to a mech.

"Just LRMs" are "Standard LRMs." Any launchers in inventory but not attached to an Artemis 'mech will not change.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

My Biggest concern with this system is this.


If I equip my mech with Artemis LRMs, Will I be able to equip Standard Guidance SRMs and vice versa? (Assuming all SRMs / LRMs either do or don't have Artemis)

In other words, I should not be restricted in my weapon system load out as I currently am.


Also followup, with the new Artemis system, does this mean you as the dev team are reworking the lock-on mechanic so that streaks DO NOT benefit from having Artemis, as they never should?

[Galil Nain]

Ghost Badger, on 20 November 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

• Any Artemis equipped Mech in your current inventory will have its launchers automatically converted to the new Artemis Missile Launcher item type.

What exactly are they saying? Do they mean "When you purchase the Artemis upgrade, any equipped missiles on a 'mech are converted to the unique Artemis launchers?" Or are they saying "For all of you guys who already have Artemis on your 'mechs with the current system, we will upgrade your launchers to Artemis, too."

I agree that Paul's wording could use (more than) a little polishing to remove the ambiguity. I am not a dev, and am not psychic, BUT...

Based on the information, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be option 2 and here's why:

Artemis upgrade post-patch 250K C-Bills
Cost difference between standard and Artemis launchers 100K C-Bills

With a wide variety of mech variants carrying more than 2 launchers, they are essentially going to be getting a bunch of their weapons systems upgraded free of charge.

Take for example a catapult with 6 launchers aboard, taking Artemis under option 1 would mean that three launchers get a free upgrade, one gets it for half price and the fire control system gets bundled for free.

Compare this to a Commando with 2 launchers and under option 1 it pays full price for the upgrades to all its launchers and still has to pay for the fire control system.

I believe what will happen is option 2, i.e. anyone with Artemis installed on patch day will get any equipped launchers upgraded free of charge, launchers in inventory will remain non-Artemis.

I also believe that it will then operate much like heatsinks, where swapping between upgraded vs. standard causes all equipped components that would be incompatible with the post-swap state of the mech will "fall off" the loadout and land back in the inventory for use either on other chassis or when you convert the chassis back to a compatible state.

I accept that this is conjecture, but if one of the aims of the upgrades system is to sink C-Bills, having a mechanic where it can give you a hell of a lot of "free stuff" (upgrades to any additional equipped launchers after the second) is beyond even the epic levels of incompetence that forumites attribute to PGI.

All this being said, if the ambiguity was intentional, it may be because anything more concrete has been taken as promises signed in blood in the past. Granted, this ambiguity could easily have been avoided without such risks, but when you get into the habit of being vague, you sometimes forget how not to be!

[Galil Nain]

mwhighlander, on 20 November 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

My Biggest concern with this system is this.


If I equip my mech with Artemis LRMs, Will I be able to equip Standard Guidance SRMs and vice versa? (Assuming all SRMs / LRMs either do or don't have Artemis)

In other words, I should not be restricted in my weapon system load out as I currently am.


Also followup, with the new Artemis system, does this mean you as the dev team are reworking the lock-on mechanic so that streaks DO NOT benefit from having Artemis, as they never should?

On your first point, the OP makes pretty clear that whilst Artemis is installed, only Artemis launchers can be equipped (with the exception of Streaks, which are a special case), exactly as the situation is now. My (albeit limited) understanding of canon is that this is the correct stance, despite many here on the forums wanting to take advantage of the non-canon mix-n'-match approach.

As for your followup, as per my previous posts, this fix is part of UI2.0 (i.e. the MechLab / future lobby / advertising platform). The SSRM lock-on buff is part of the in-game code-base. Separate beast, (probably) separate team, (definitely) separate task on the to-do list. Would also be a big task, as they'd need to implement a separate lock-on reticle with its own timer such that mechs with both Artemis LRMs and (shouldn't be affected by Artemis) SSRMs can have their lock status displayed correctly. At present, with only one shared reticle, it's all or nothing (and you can bet there'd be outcry if Artemis LRMs lost their lock-time bonus just because you've brought some Streaks along for the ride!).

[Void Angel]

Niko Snow, on 19 November 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Spoiler

A Rework to Artemis

While working through the rules of Mech Lab, we revisited the implementation of Artemis and how it was handled in terms of your inventory.

Currently, when you upgrade a Mech to Artemis, we would automatically convert your missile launchers to Artemis enabled launchers. You would then be able to remove those Artemis launchers and use them as regular launchers on other Mechs. This was never the intention and upon further reflection, it would make more sense to have Artemis and non-Artemis launchers be their own unique items.

That being said, what we are planning to do is the following:

• The cost of upgrading Artemis is being significantly reduced. (750,000 CB to 250,000 CB)
  
• Artemis and non-Artemis launchers are now unique items and cannot be mixed and matched.
  
• Artemis missile ammunition is already its own item type and will not change.
  
• Any Artemis equipped Mech in your current inventory will have its launchers automatically converted to the new Artemis Missile Launcher item type.
  
• Removing Artemis from a current Artemis enabled BattleMech will require a repurchase of standard missile launchers if you so wish to use them.
  
• The cost of the two missile launcher system types (Artemis/Standard) will not change (Artemis version being 100,000 CB more).

TL;DR – Artemis upgrades will be cheaper. Removing Artemis will require you to repurchase the non-Artemis launchers if you still want to use those weapon systems.




e.g. Your BattleMech has an Artemis-SRM4 launcher. If you want to rebuild your BattleMech to have non-Artemis weaponry, you will have to buy a standard SRM4 launcher if you don’t have one in your inventory.

SPECIAL NOTE: The current UI2.0 build being made for Public Test contains this new Artemis functionality if you’d like to see how it works.

Please tell us what you think!

Above is the actual explanation, in case anyone needed to refer to it.

So: we're going to have separate launchers for Artemis ("ASRM" and "ALRM" are about to become actual item types,) and that upgrading to Artemis will have a drastically reduced cost. The new Artemis missile launchers (short- and long-range) will cost 100,000 c-bills more, and any launchers that are equipped when UI 2.0 is implemented will be upgraded for free to avoid costing people who already have Artemis money. You might have to buy standard launchers if you go back to Standard Guidance for your missiles.

Given the comments, and especially the complaints, which I've seen in this thread so far, a few things bear pointing out:

• This change will save you money. The only situation where this will cost you more than the old system is if you swapped to Artemis/Standard guidance, didn't have any of the right launchers and had to buy them, and then never, ever switched back. For the rest of us, we either always use one kind of guidance or we swap periodically. In either case we're in the black here: if you don't have any of a given launcher, you could still end up paying more in the short run - but unless you're foolish enough to sell off "extra" equipment instead of saving it, you'll always be saving money long-term.
  
• Artemis is still going to be an upgrade. The actual mechanics of upgrading to Artemis will not change. You'll still have to buy Standard Guidance if you want to put standard SRM/LRMs back on your 'mech. The difference is that instead of having to pay 750,000 c-bills every time we put Artemis back on a 'mech, we'll pay 250,000 c-bills and have the option of swapping existing Artemis launchers into the 'mech instead of buying new gear.
  
• This change, by itself, will not fix the Streak lock-on bug. The mechanics of Artemis in the game don't seem to be substantially re-worked. We're still buying the upgrade to flag our 'mech as Artemis so the game knows what gear to allow in the MechLab, and what guidance algorithms to use in a match. While it is possible that PGI could be fixing the unintentional interaction between Artemis and Streaks with the implementation of UI 2.0, this is not being announced here.

Edited by Void Angel, 20 November 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

Sounds like it might be cheaper on some builds. Will we be able to equip only some launcher types with Artemis and some without (e.g. Artemis on LRMs but not SRM launchers)?

[Galil Nain]

Solis Obscuri, on 20 November 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Sounds like it might be cheaper on some builds. Will we be able to equip only some launcher types with Artemis and some without (e.g. Artemis on LRMs but not SRM launchers)?

This has been asked and answered many times already this thread, to the best of our understanding of the information the devs have released...

The answer is NO. With Artemis installed, the only non-Artemis launchers you can equip will be Streaks and, unless they decide to re-write the missile locking code in the in-game code-base (not within the scope of this change) those Streaks will continue to benefit from the erroneous lock-on time buff.

[Nacon]

You know... that now Paul want to make this kind of changes... he's doing it before we even had UI 2.0 a chance?

Priority is off the chart.

[Void Angel]

There is no contradiction, or question of priority. This change is very easy given the functionality of UI 2.0. It's the kind of thing that can be done easily with the upgrade to the UI, and doesn't detract at all from things like hit registration fixing because those are being worked on by different teams.

Solis Obscuri, on 20 November 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

Sounds like it might be cheaper on some builds. Will we be able to equip only some launcher types with Artemis and some without (e.g. Artemis on LRMs but not SRM launchers)?

• Artemis and non-Artemis launchers are now unique items and cannot be mixed and matched.

It's in the original post, bud.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Overall...

I am disappointed. This "fix" essentially fixes no longstanding issues with Artemis ( or streaks ) and seems rather unnecessary until actual changes take place.

I supposed for those who do use LRMs (and man do I feel bad for them) the reduced cost is nice. Excuse me while I continue to face hug them to death in-game with my Artemis-Streaks.

Edited by mwhighlander, 20 November 2013 - 11:20 PM.

[Void Angel]

That's because it's not a fix. It's just a change to the mech-building system.

[VXJaeger]

Is this again somesorta new way to **** our CB's and make game more unplayable? **** you.

[Void Angel]

Remedial reading comprehension is available at your local institute of higher learning.

[Asmosis]

Ok well just went and equipped all my mechs that have missile hardpoints with missiles, so i'll only have to pay twice for about half the launchers I own.

This isn't a free upgrade because I've already paid (several times per mech in some cases) for atremis.

It'll be a good thing in the long run (for the reason mentioned above) since it'll be much cheaper to switch later on if needed.

[Heffay]

Nacon, on 20 November 2013 - 06:56 PM, said:

You know... that now Paul want to make this kind of changes... he's doing it before we even had UI 2.0 a chance?

Priority is off the chart.

Because with 50 people and various areas of expertise, nobody should be working on anything else until the 3 guys working on UI 2.0 are done...