91 replies to this topic

[Odin]

All depends on how smart or sophisticated the damage model will be.

Legging is a valid tactic, leading to the stupid circle of death we all despise
and LOL we all are used too
I hope we don't see it that much in MWO, there are simple measures against it.

[Phoenixfire]

They just need to make the legs harder to hit, and allow for multiple pieces on each leg so if part gets blown off you can still limp, an entire leg means you go down but remain upright and can still fire and torso twist but legging was often the only way to take out a boat that had removed a bunch of leg armor to fit that extra ton of ammo or added heat sinks

[Valaron]

Legging my mech never stopped me from pounding people into the ground in MW2.. I sure as hell hope it wont in MWO. If getting your leg shot off on here means insta-death, I'm gonna be Very dissapointed.

[saber15]

Phoenixfire, on 01 November 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

They just need to make the legs harder to hit, and allow for multiple pieces on each leg so if part gets blown off you can still limp, an entire leg means you go down but remain upright and can still fire and torso twist but legging was often the only way to take out a boat that had removed a bunch of leg armor to fit that extra ton of ammo or added heat sinks

Earthsiege had multiple hitboxes (on everything), the legs were divided into like 3 sections. Didn't stop anyone from simply blasting off the leg.

[Rodney28021]

I read some where that Destroying both legs will destroy the mech in MWO. I think the devs should change that to no Movement of mech but still can use sensors and direct teammates to what that crippled mech can see. Then if the mechwarrior determines he cannot help the team, he can punch out or sit there in the game. The devs need to make the legs and head tougher to hit. Maybe you could put more armor points on the legs.
In the TT / PnP game, leg removal Does Not destroy the mech, the mech functions as long as center torso and head exists. I have played TT games where mechs with 1 leg or no legs are stil fighting and contributing to the battle. Mechs with no legs can fire torso weapons while using arms to twist in the hex. If that mech had lost arms and legs then it can not fight but if it has useful electronics gear like C3 master, active probe, ECM, communications gear, Commander seat and the mechwarrior mk1 eyeballs, those can still contribute to battle.
As it stands removing the legs is the next best vunerability to exploit for quick killing a mech in the battletech video games.

Edited by Rodney28021, 06 June 2012 - 06:51 AM.

[Davoke]

cobrafive, on 31 October 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

This is going to be one of the most difficult decisions they have to make. In all honestly, legging generally just doesn't make for good gameplay. Its too much reward for too little risk and its just too easy. There's no reason not to leg!

But taking it out... it just doesn't make sense, and moreover, its just not mechwarrior!

I vote for being legged slowing you down, but not killing you.

Alternatively: To simulate some kind of honor on the battlefield, since this is an MMO style game... if you kill an enemy by legging, you get less money/experience points for the kill.

I don't know about you, but legging is stupid, most MW4 mechs have more leg armor than left and right torso armor

[Toothman]

Its going to be more difficult to leg than in previous titles. That being said we'll have to wait and see how much more difficult. Either way they seem to be ready to tweak to keep things from turning into a one pony show.

[Frostiken]

Legging in MWLL sucks for a lot of reasons, but I don't think all of them apply to MWO.

In MWLL legging is the ultimate troll move. You have to buy your mechs with credits, so if you leg a guy after he leaves the hangar, not only is his mech basically useless, but he cannot bring it back to the hangar to sell it, nor is he in any position to earn any more. Additionally, he's not dead, so he's not going to respawn at the hangar with spawn cash, his only option is to chase you around in a BA and hope you kill him, or suicide and get a rank loss.

There was a "limp" mechanic in MWLL, but it only shows up when the leg has like 1% life remaining. It's pretty common for the leg to go from fully functional to removed without any limping because it matters that little. Additionally the limp was at like 2% your max speed, so 'limping' back to the hangar would literally take you all afternoon. It all felt very poorly thought out and implemented.

Legging is frowned upon in almost every server specifically because of how ****** it is. I don't think such a mechanic in MWLL terms would be that bad in MWO since you don't have to worry about spawn cash and all that, but we'll see.



Personally I think legging should be like shooting an arm off - something you do not to kill or completely immobilize the mech, but to gain an advantage. Honestly, it's really only the fact that intentional legging will get you banned from most servers that stops MWLL from being a leg-fest.

Edited by Frostiken, 06 June 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[Kyle Knightraven]

I have won matches in TT with both legs gone, as you can still prop on one arm and use the other arm and torso weapons. Sitting duck, yep. At a serious disadvantage, yep. Helpless and done for...hardly. And lets not forget leg armor is not back armor, usually second only to CT. So, if propping is possible in the game engine I will still be shooting you, with none of that annoying camera bounce to work with...

Now, a real problem is shooting at the arms...hey, I have my weapons there, if you shoot off my arms I am basically helpless. And if you shoot my torso my engine will be destroyed, in the back is just cowardly, and if you shoot my head it would kill me. I think that you should not be able to shoot me at all.

Edited by Kyle Knightraven, 06 June 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Xantars]

if they do legging like the table top game then all hits will be random and there will be no picking your hit locations. If that is the case then it will be very hard to leg someone. and just cause you bloe off a leg dosent mean the mech is down and out. they can still prop them self up and blast away at your and drag them self away if they have arms to do so

[wanderer]

Legging works in the online games because shots arent randomized as much. It doesn't really take much, just have a sensible cone-of-fire deal at longer ranges and gnawing off kneecaps won't be too easy at anything except close range. The whole aim-and-core mechanic really reduces one of the virtues of a 'Mech- that damage spread out and although it's easier to breach armor, it's a damn sight tougher kiling one.

One leg down = fall, stand, crippled shuffle. Two legs down = fall, immobilized, put a "prop up" command in and have the 'Mech continue to fire unless it's lost both arms as well. (Heck, put a "go prone" command in, there are times I'd use it.). But legging = dead? Nah.

I won a MechForce tournament once with a one-legged, armless Hunchback down to it's small laser. Stood up on the barely-there leg and zapped my opponent's engine for a finishing blow. Afterwards, his two buddies dropped me with three AC/20's to the CT, but hey- that's why I say a 'Mech isn't dead until you core it or shoot the head out.

[Rixx]

I don't think anyone is really asking about if legging is a good strat or if it will happen, no one is that dense.
I also don't think they can mirror the tabletop game and make our aim not matter...that wouldn't fly.

What I would like to see is a sort of 3 tier system to leg damage.
With no significant internal damage, the leg works fine.
With significant internal damage, the leg locks or freezes, causing the mech to limp.
With extreme internal damage, the leg is lost, but the mech isn't.

To be honest, there would be a lot of wear and tear between broken and missing, and it would keep legging a viable tactical strategy, but not make it an easy kill situation that ruins the fun of the game.

External armor is gone, the internals take enough damage to be considered destroyed. Joints and actuators fuse and fail and you basically have a big peg leg for your mech. Speed is significantly reduced, but you can limp around still. Think of it as a broken leg with a giant cast, but no crutches. You can still move, but you hobble and are slow. This would affect your speed and your gait making targeting on the move harder.

If both legs hit that point, then you are immobile, but could remain upright. You have effectively become a turret at this point.

If the leg takes enough damage it would be effectively removed from the mech allowing the mech to fall. If a mech hit this state, I would love to see thim able to sit and still join combat if possible. Obviously no movement, limited field of view and torso twist, even some weapons could be blocked by terrain or what not.

Do you bother to leg the stock catapult? Probably not. It's still an effective machine at half or no speed as it has a decent spread of weapons. That stock hunchback however would be a great mech to slow down. Keep that AC away from your forces and save him for later.

This system would make it so punching through the CT mass would be the quickest way to kill the mech, but still give the option of hitting a lower armored limb and reducing the combat ability of the mech. They are slower, they have a harder time aiming, they are easier to target, etc, etc... Do you (and your team) spend time trying to remove threats all together, or do you spend time trying to control the battlefield and the flow of the battle. Do you want your ace gunners trying to wittle away the torso armor of the Atlas, or hobbling the thing to slow it's advance?

I hope there is also a falling system to the game that does damage upon impact too. Obviously a leg damaged mech is more likely to fall. With two 'broken' legs, they wouldn't be able to get back up either.

While this wouldn't really fit the tabletop rules (which MW video game ever truely has?), it would fit the literature pretty well and seem pretty realistic.