60 replies to this topic

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Supremacist, on 20 June 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

As of right now, the only group we know of that for sure wont be a part of the AFFS CoC is your unit.

UHH why is a lowtax Laio posting unfound facts in House Davions forums?!? You and your group seem to have alot of intrest in promoting certain groups to "lead" House Davion. The question has to come to mind, lead us where? Its not unknown that in the past Lowtax has tried to steer their oppents towards a goal that would in turn benifit them. If I was leader of a MERC, or House Davion unit I would have serious questions here.

Edited by Zerstorer Stallin, 20 June 2012 - 11:06 AM.

[Spartan]

They're concerned because they intend to fight us and don't want it to be one massive ROFLSTOMP.

If anyone from Inner Sphere Wars is around, I wouldn't mind hearing what you guys have to say. That game was pretty logistics and organization heavy, would be nice to have you guys on board for whatever is set up, at least in an advisory role.

[Vandal]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 20 June 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

UHH why is a lowtax Laio posting unfound facts in House Davions forums?!? You and your group seem to have alot of intrest in promoting certain groups to "lead" House Davion. The question has to come to mind, lead us where? Its not unknown that in the past Lowtax has tried to steer their oppents towards a goal that would in turn benifit them. If I was leader of a MERC, or House Davion unit I would have serious questions here.

Yes, this is all part of a nefarious GOONIE LOWTAX PLOT, not a genuine interest in seeing some high level matches and strategies get played out. Congrats, you have discovered the secret and foiled the Mittani's machinations, and are now the hero of the Fedsuns! Hooray!

[Hanze Davion]

The Chain of Command starts here! Anyone who disagrees can take my Battlemaster and shove it where the Federated Suns don't shine!

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Vandal, on 20 June 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

Yes, this is all part of a nefarious GOONIE LOWTAX PLOT, not a genuine interest in seeing some high level matches and strategies get played out. Congrats, you have discovered the secret and foiled the Mittani's machinations, and are now the hero of the Fedsuns! Hooray!

And now the forum bully will raise his head, dare yea say anything to Lowtax, I smite thee with my wit and juvenile sense of internet coolness! Who couldn't see this coming? Again a tried and true tactic of a less than desirable group trying to influence others.
My statement was fair and still holds true. Why is Lowtax so bothered by who WE, House Davion, pick as leaders? Yes I know your concern for us is truely felt and I will sleep much better with the knowledge that with you guiding us we will be oh so better for it. Just look at the wonderful things they and their allies have done in many other games, and communities. Its always been a positive experinece for all.

[Spartan]

Zerstorer, your group cares enough about how House Davion is run to not be a part of it so you can do as you please.

You're suggestions are welcome here nonetheless, but your attitude is not. Regardless of Vandal's affiliation, he is offering good-natured advise.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Spartan,
1BBR has a solid leadership and community structure. We are far from being "alone" on concerns for who and how House Davion will be guided. As to my "suggestion" well you have the right to do you as you want, just as I do. That includes coming here and speaking as to our thoughts and concerns with out your unnessary aggressive behavior. I won't be commenting on this subject again. I said what I wanted, I wish you good luck.
One last parting thought, declaring yourself a leader and having people follow you is two separate things.

[Hykelion]

I'm liking the round table idea, especially with the King Arthur references elsewhere in Davion unit names and such. I'd say the round table would start at being made up of, say, the leaders of each of the Davion-aligned "guilds" and go from there? Perhaps being a kind of Parliament while a single individual selected by the round table acts as the commander in chief (with the round table able to remove him or her from power should he or she prove incapable of handling the role).

This should allow us to handle some of the issues that Vandal has pointed out with the voting system, while still allowing equal say from those who wish to get involved with the decision-making process.

[Spartan]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 20 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

I won't be commenting on this subject again. I said what I wanted, I wish you good luck.

Thank you, so long.

And now back to the topic at hand please. A round table/council/whatever is always a good idea at first and made with the best intentions, the problem is it requires a lot of work to keep it going and keep it working without infighting or favoritism. I'd be more in favor of having a single individual oversee things. Not as a "supreme ruler", IE The Mittani (which is still the most effective way of doing things), as I fear that would drive people away in this sort of environment where each person has to pick a faction or go to a merc unit. I'd envision this as more of a supervisor role, taking input from the other players and groups but ultimately the final decision comes down to this person. Directing where direction is need, but not with an iron-fisted attitude.

Edited by Spartan, 20 June 2012 - 01:01 PM.

[Vandal]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 20 June 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

One last parting thought, declaring yourself a leader and having people follow you is two separate things.

Thank you very much for your repeated input that is exactly the same as everything the entire Blackbeard's Rangers clan has been parroting since the last thread. Very insightful.

I think the idea of a Judge or Arbiter or whatever you would want to call it is a pretty good compromise. Instead of filling it based on experience or seniority, A good way to find a person who is a great fit is to just give anybody who is interested a small shot at it. Sometimes a person who might not have shown any prior affinity to leadership or command or logistics ends up being great at it. When one goon retired from command of a section of EVEfleet, another one who had only been playing for a few days was offered the job simply because he seemed like a pretty cool dude. Turned out he was actually damn good at leading the command and planning logistics and was a perfect fit!

Edited by Vandal, 20 June 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[Syro]

Vandal, on 20 June 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your repeated input that is exactly the same as everything the entire Blackbeard's Rangers clan has been parroting since the last thread. Very insightful.

I think the idea of a Judge or Arbiter or whatever you would want to call it is a pretty good compromise. Instead of filling it based on experience or seniority, A good way to find a person who is a great fit is to just give anybody who is interested a small shot at it. Sometimes a person who might not have shown any prior affinity to leadership or command or logistics ends up being great at it. When one goon retired from command of a section of EVEfleet, another one who had only been playing for a few days was offered the job simply because he seemed like a pretty cool dude. Turned out he was actually damn good at leading the command and planning logistics and was a perfect fit!

I like this trial by fire appraoch, but we need to have the roundtable in place first. It will take time for us to evolve ourselves a leader. Ideally, we'll end up with someone with good experience in coordinating large-scale actions, but it could take a while. It might also need to be taken in rotations, other wise we are going to end up with fractured CoC and whoknows how many "Official" AFFS command organizations.

[Vandal]

Syro, on 20 June 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

I like this trial by fire appraoch, but we need to have the roundtable in place first. It will take time for us to evolve ourselves a leader. Ideally, we'll end up with someone with good experience in coordinating large-scale actions, but it could take a while. It might also need to be taken in rotations, other wise we are going to end up with fractured CoC and whoknows how many "Official" AFFS command organizations.

To be fair, a lot of this just depends on how in depth they actually make community warfare when it launches. Even for all this planning, it might end up being a very shallow system of regular dropzone matches and basic rewards like 'Davion won this many matches today, they get gauss rifles for cheaper!'. In which case it wouldn't matter really if anybody organized themselves at all.

Personally I hope they make it more in-depth, I find that metagame systems that don't allow any real player agency or consequence end up really boring and find themselves stagnating with a dwindling playerbase, like World of Tanks where the only reward you get for doing very well at clan matches is an even larger share of gold currency. Of course it doesn't need to be EVE levels of sandbox, but hopefully the developers will reward people who have taken the time to organize themselves together with deeper and more rewarding meta-gameplay.

Edited by Vandal, 20 June 2012 - 02:25 PM.

[Syro]

Vandal, on 20 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

To be fair, a lot of this just depends on how in depth they actually make community warfare when it launches. Even for all this planning, it might end up being a very shallow system of regular dropzone matches and basic rewards like 'Davion won this many matches today, they get gauss rifles for cheaper!'. In which case it wouldn't matter really if anybody organized themselves at all.

I'm a little worried about this as well. It doesn't seem like it should be too difficult to add a finite database of IS worlds, and track occupation/resistance status on each (exactly what was done with MPBT, if i remember correctly). I think where trouble might occur there is the question "So what if AFFS manages to capture 20% of DCMS space?" Controlling worlds in MPBT didn't actually benefit the victors. All it did was ensure that remaining worlds would be more heavily defended.

I would love to see something like "Your faction controlls key world X, which contains resources for weapons production (or mech production or tech research)" which would affect the economy until the planet was retaken (Or razed?). Honestly though, i'm all for itterative improvements to the metagame, as long as there is a regular update.

[Mustang]

Spartan theres plenty ISW vets around

[Hykelion]

Even if there's no big advantage for each side in the metagame for in-game victories, the faction community banding together and organizing will help with teamwork and acclimating new players to the game. At the very least, a round table would promote cooperation between the community's groups. As long as one of the groups involved is willing to accept new blood, rather than defaulting to elitism BS, then there should be a way for new players to get introduced to the community and grow.

The strength of the Federated Suns is in teamwork. While the game is still unreleased, we can take our time to build the kind of infrastructure to support that mentality so that no matter what the meta system is we can handle it as a community.

[Syro]

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Spartan theres plenty ISW vets around

And these folks (I'm not one of them) can be tapped to form the core of the initial roundtables, but should not be a de facto round table

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The strength of the Federated Suns is in teamwork. While the game is still unreleased, we can take our time to build the kind of infrastructure to support that mentality so that no matter what the meta system is we can handle it as a community

/Agree. I think the closed beta/open beta cycle for the game can also easily serve as an open beta for house CoC/RoundTable/Rotating leadership. We don't have to get everything right on the first go-round (if we do, awesome), but we need to be working for it, and we need to be honest about who and what is or is not working.

[Jack Gallows]

Syro, on 21 June 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

And these folks (I'm not one of them) can be tapped to form the core of the initial roundtables, but should not be a de facto round table

Yea, it's important that people don't get snubbed out of hand just because they're either new/old to this community. I think that's pretty much well understood, however (or I'd hope it is.)

Syro, on 21 June 2012 - 03:58 AM, said:

/Agree. I think the closed beta/open beta cycle for the game can also easily serve as an open beta for house CoC/RoundTable/Rotating leadership. We don't have to get everything right on the first go-round (if we do, awesome), but we need to be working for it, and we need to be honest about who and what is or is not working.

Closed beta is not a good ground for beginning to piece any idea for leadership together, but open might be a fine spot. I too believe it'll probably be trial and error but I'm sure that things can get worked out. Another approach to the round table idea is to possibly use a council type system. Round table convenes and (after a while,) they select a rotating council. Just trying to give ideas that might help with leaders being impartial instead of just putting one individual above everyone else.

Hoping there's any sort of depth to community warfare, but we'll have to see how in depth they'll actually allow us to get (but I'm only semi hopeful.)

[Meneiupptus]

I disagree Jack, closed Beta is the perfect time to piece togethor who is or isn't a good leader. It is also the best time to get units talking to each other. There will be many battles and leadership will define themse;lves quickly.

To that respect I recommend in addition to the roundtable leadership style I recommend electing a "duty officer? for 2 week periods for all 3-4 gaming shifts. better make it 4 shifts since most gamers have not only lives but jobs. If the Goons recommend a single leader who can react quickly, and I agree, then I would take that advice and run with it. They have destroyed more alliances then I have ever fought in my 19 years of gaming. IN MPBT and in every game that followed We used the Duty Officer role for quick organization. This allowed everyone in the guild/alliance to know who was in charge if the fecal matter began flying. It worked well, not perfectly because not everyone is made to be a leader but it worked. We never fought on the scale of the goons but we were respected and thats really all a gamer can ask for. In Shadowbane we can brag that after we learned how to play as long as our players were on the walls no one conquered our city and in Eve we can pretty much say we kept our hulks safe and ran off even the Goon loner or two who decided to check our bot status

I am glad to see this time the thread is clean and goal orientated. For House Davion and House Davion Players.

[Syro]

I think I understand Jack's reservations about using closed beta as a training ground for leaders, but I do disagree. I know that in closed, we won't have any sort of community warfare pillar, and it is likely all going to simply be random drops, but I think that's perfect for getting field-level commanders trained up, it's perfect for finding those folks who are (mentally) agile enough to adapt to changing battlefield and game-mechanic situations, and round tables during this time will help find and identify those who can articualte and execute. We all know that the best mech jockies don't always make the best leaders.
The unit comannder round table, and ansilary round-tables for IDF tactics, spotting, scouting, and other tactical issues, will put us in a position to be hot out of the gate once the community warfare code goes live.

Quote

To that respect I recommend in addition to the roundtable leadership style I recommend electing a "duty officer? for 2 week periods for all 3-4 gaming shifts

I could really get behind this idea. I was also thinking about hosting a perpetual unit comander/CoC/Theater/Whatever irc (an amazon ec2 micro instance should be more than enough for this) so that unit commanders/whoever can keep up to date pretty easily (Though i don't want to invite myself into that structure if i don't belong there).

[Jack Gallows]

I'd add that my reservations would be about the current beta and that being too small a pool to get a good sample of info about Davion players. Once the second closed beta hits when all the founder pack buyers get in on the 7th then that would be an ok start point. I also think it might be best if its used to open communication between players first to get the House communicating and involved so no one is being left out for various reasons. Would probably take a little bit to ensure a high amount of Davion are part of the process, but that would just be so multiple instances of leadership groups don't pop up and have to figure out which is going to b the round table, as it were.

That is, if it is decided a round table is how the house would like to proceed.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 21 June 2012 - 09:57 AM.