167 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Jman5, on 22 November 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

You can't subdivide Elo too many times before it becomes meaningless. While it may work for you, 90% of the playerbase would constantly be outside their intended Elo simply because they haven't played enough games in a particular mech to stabilize it.

Matchmaker and elo are meaningless now anyway.
I think little smurf's are actually doing it.
And maybe game developement too.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Blurry, on 23 November 2013 - 06:58 AM, said:

premades should have your q.
let pugs be pugs

and you can do whatever you want in your q.

Sorry but I have had really bad experiences with arrogant premades and the tirades that come out of them.
I would rather solo q and pug life away from those leet players.

Its rare when a premade even bothers to type in a game and the majority of the time they do their own thing regardless of the rest of the team. I think anyone calling this a team game in its current state is deluded to the extreme. How can it be a team game when most often a four man are only out for themselves, wont assist anyone outside their group . Then comes here and ranks on pugs because of their actions.

Can't say what will fix that as this thread will be quickly censored and dispatched to K-town by the gate keepers who want it to stay this way. Good for them, bad for you..

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 24 November 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[KinLuu]

PUG-dropping in a game with two full 733C premades on my team. One colored in lime green, the other one in gray.
The other team full of noobmechs like battlemasters or lolcusts.

Easiest game of my life.

I wonder why the matchmaker decided to put those two 4-mans on the same side.

Edited by KinLuu, 24 November 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[Urdasein]

Quote

Its rare when a premade even bothers to type in a game and the majority of the time they do their own thing regardless of the rest of the team. I think anyone calling this a team game in its current state is deluded to the extreme. How can it be a team game when most often a four man are only out for themselves, wont assist anyone outside their group . Then comes here and ranks on pugs because of their actions.

I noticed this too. 4 Man teams playing alone.

You can do the following thing when noticing a premade on startup: take company command, shuffle them.

[KinLuu]

loupgaroupoilu, on 24 November 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

I noticed this too. 4 Man teams playing alone.

You can do the following thing when noticing a premade on startup: take company command, shuffle them.

Hooray for glorious teamkilling spree?

[Urdasein]

KinLuu, on 24 November 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Hooray for glorious teamkilling spree?

Then report and launch another game. Who cares ?

This would be more annoying if the premade disconnect. They can launch another game immediatly and you still have to play a 4 man-short game. You can still report it anyway.

Edited by loupgaroupoilu, 24 November 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

The good news is, what we have as present is probably as good as it will ever get as the game steadily loses fans.

Or is that bad news?

EDIT: By the way, there are so many different explanations about how ELO works, I don't know what to believe. The information, if it's out there, seems to be buried in the forums in multiple threads over long periods of time. Which is how PGI likes to divulge information.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 24 November 2013 - 05:05 AM.

[Tastian]

I would like to say that I play solo a lot and I play in 4 man teams a lot. When I play in TS in a 4 man, our group tactic is always 'stick with the pugs'. Because we can announce we are a 4 man and suggest a route and then watch as 7 of our pug group start off in the other direction. So, now when the match starts, we wait 30 seconds to see where the mob decides to go and support them*

*of course you'll still have 1 or 2 rambos running off in a different direction. Usually in a trial atlas or something.

[JoJoxy]

For obvious reasons pgi cannot disclose how elo works exactly, because the second they do people will game and exploit the **** out of it.

Edited by JoJoxy, 24 November 2013 - 05:23 AM.

[Tolkien]

JoJoxy, on 24 November 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

For obvious reasons pgi cannot disclose how elo works exactly, because the second they do people will game and exploit the **** out of it.

I would rather have a system where both the good guys and the bad guys know the internal workings, rather than a system where only the deviant minds have reverse engineered it.

[Alistair Winter]

JoJoxy, on 24 November 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

For obvious reasons pgi cannot disclose how elo works exactly, because the second they do people will game and exploit the **** out of it.

How would they do that? Artificially boosting their ELO by winning all their matches? Or fooling the system by losing all their matches?

[JoJoxy]

Alistair Winter, on 24 November 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

How would they do that? Artificially boosting their ELO by winning all their matches? Or fooling the system by losing all their matches?

By avoiding conditions (apart from winning) which increase elo. Say for example winning and accuracy would matter. You could fire some small lasers randomly to decrease your accuracy score. In case you win the match, you'd still gain less elo.

People WILL find loopholes to gain unfair advantages...

[Alistair Winter]

JoJoxy, on 24 November 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

By avoiding conditions (apart from winning) which increase elo. Say for example winning and accuracy would matter. You could fire some small lasers randomly to decrease your accuracy score. In case you win the match, you'd still gain less elo.
People WILL find loopholes to gain unfair advantages...

From what we know, the only way to influence ELO is by winning or losing. So what loopholes can people exploit?

It seems you're creating a condition only to support your argument, even though that condition doesn't exist, as far as we know.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Elo actually seems pretty straightforward even though none of us know what our actual score is at any given time...it's the Matchmaker system, utilizing Elo scores to form teams, that seems to work sometimes and then have a brain fart other times...

[JoJoxy]

Alistair Winter, on 24 November 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

From what we know, the only way to influence ELO is by winning or losing. So what loopholes can people exploit?

It seems you're creating a condition only to support your argument, even though that condition doesn't exist, as far as we know.

You're kidding me? It was my point that we don't know and continue to not know. Because else exploiting was possible.

Edited by JoJoxy, 24 November 2013 - 09:53 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

JoJoxy, on 24 November 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

You're kidding me? It was my point that we don't know and continue to not know. Because else exploiting was possible.

And my point is that even if we did know, it be impossible to exploit. It's hard to exploit a ranking system based only on winning and losing, especially when you're being matched up with random opponents.

How would you exploit it?

[Bront]

I find the times that I play make a difference quite often. Durring prime time, match balance swings wildly. Durring non-prime time, match balance is better, but often has "runs" where I'm just outmatched or we overmatch the opponent several times in a row.

In a 4 man, it sometimes gets worse, either wildly one way or the other. Sometimes it's because of the mechs we bring (Ok, so 4 awesomes wasn't a very good idea...), sometimes the map doesn't help (Lurmageddon lance on Crimson Straight), and sometimes you just get unlucky., when other times you just get on a roll (Lurmageddon ho! The Wolfpack works, etc).

Overall, I don't really find a huge difference when I play as a group than when I play solo, other than when playing in a group, I know 1-3 other mechs have my back better than the other PUGs.

[Mark Brandhauber]

I'm patiently waiting for the proposed tonnage limit, it will eloquently solve these problems. Right now people can take advantage of the current system running a 4 man of victors or highlanders and if they have the skill and co-ordination (and knowledge of exploits)they stomp their opponents. This being said when the tonnage limit is launched; i give it two weeks before the same players have found a way to exploit it.

[DemonRaziel]

Mark Brandhauber, on 24 November 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

This being said when the tonnage limit is launched; i give it two weeks before the same players have found a way to exploit it.

Obviously. Those that optimize will continue to do so within the current limitations which only means they will have to consider one more variable in their group composition.

Weight limits (or lack of them) are not the main reasons of pug-stomps, anyways. It's the MM glitches that result in imbalances in weight, skill, player-count or any combination of these. And that means that even if your stats show a 50:50 WLR, the individual games themselves oftentimes are not balanced (and therefore fun to be a part of). Weight limits may (or may not) only solve part of the overarching issue.

[-Natural Selection-]

loupgaroupoilu, on 24 November 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

I noticed this too. 4 Man teams playing alone.

You can do the following thing when noticing a premade on startup: take company command, shuffle them.

Go ahead and do that. Our group does everything we can to help the group and win. Do that to ours and we will gladly help you out by leaving.