181 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

***** n stuff, on 27 November 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

If you're fighting one on one you have no choice but to give them a good angle, because all your weapons are torso mounted.

And that is why I still mount ballistics in my Centurions arm.

[Corvus Antaka]

Victor Morson, on 27 November 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

snip

Your assuming newbies can hit stuff. A newbie with an ECM staying with the team and supporting them is much more useful than a newbie in a jenner that cannot hit anything anyhow. It eases their learning curve and keeps them useful to the team.

The raven is still a powerful mech, and the 4X and 2X can both do 400 damage or more a match easily with the right builds in the right hands. Long gone are the days of these mechs being useless.

Just because some people can't run a certain mech well, does not mean it is no good, and the raven 3L with 3 module slots before mastery has many uses and is a great team mech for newbies.

You can put a BAP, ECM, max engine, 3 MLaser, 2 streaks and advanced sensor range, target decay, 360 retention and an arty strike and still have a 1.39 heat efficiency.

The jenner can not touch that kind of electronic warfare, and personally I'd rather have a newb who cant aim in a mech that is somewhat useful than in a jenner that is useless if you are just learning how to aim lasers, and gives you 0 defensive benefit like ECM.

[Victor Morson]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Your assuming newbies can hit stuff. A newbie with an ECM staying with the team and supporting them is much more useful than a newbie in a jenner that cannot hit anything anyhow. It eases their learning curve and keeps them useful to the team.

I don't know, I think newbies should have a pretty easy time hitting with SPL, ML and SSRM, favored weapons of the Jenner. In fact they are the easiest to hit with weapons in the game.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

The raven is still a powerful mech, and the 4X and 2X can both do 400 damage or more a match easily with the right builds in the right hands. Long gone are the days of these mechs being useless.

The 3L barely has a niche; nobody'd take the 4X or 2X over a Jenner or even 3L.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Just because some people can't run a certain mech well, does not mean it is no good,

It not being good makes it not good.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

and the raven 3L with 3 module slots before mastery has many uses and is a great team mech for newbies.

I think it's an interesting niche to experiment with in 12 man, but I'd never recommend it for pugs honestly.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

You can put a BAP, ECM, max engine, 3 MLaser, 2 streaks and advanced sensor range, target decay, 360 retention and an arty strike and still have a 1.39 heat efficiency.

The jenner can not touch that kind of electronic warfare, and personally I'd rather have a newb who cant aim in a mech that is somewhat useful than in a jenner that is useless if you are just learning how to aim lasers, and gives you 0 defensive benefit like ECM.

I honestly don't know why you think hitting stuff in a light is a newbie's biggest problem. Most people going light are used to twitch-FPS style gaming anyway.

I think it's way more important newbies learn to pilot & jump jet around than ECM. Again in pugs you are lucky as hell if they don't scatter to the four corners of the map immediately after the drop. ECM in that environment sucks.

[Corvus Antaka]

Victor Morson, on 27 November 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

ECM in that environment sucks.

ECM never sucks...LOL

[Dan Nashe]

(1) Agree new players should be encouraged to start with mechs widely recognized as the current meta. Nothing sucks more as a new player than the suspicion that "I am just losing because they have a better mech I can't afford." Then they can branch ou. No reason to handicap new players or to give them an excuse to blame their mech. Also, they win't regret owning the cheese, even if they decide they don't like it.

(2) I tend to agree hgn is a better new player assault than victor. A new player picks an assault to be big and powerful. Even if the vct is a better mech (which I don't concede) hgn is at least as good and feels most like a true assault.

(3) I think the jaeger is a valid alternative to the ludicrously expensive3d. I love my ctfs though, my first intelligent choice and I have no regrets. Also: 1 ac20 5 ml 300 std 1x. Love it. Just saying. The catapault is also not a Bad buy. (Good spread of options and skme variants jump.

(4) the light is the most debateable. I agree with the jennerbecause (1) bap allows ssrms now and (2) while the 3l is aamazing, levelling the 2x and 4x is not. Spider are currently a valid choice as well. Especially if they loved the trial spider. Better hit detection may or may not ruin the spider.

[Alaskan Nobody]

DanNashe, on 27 November 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nothing sucks more as a new player than the suspicion that "I am just losing because they have a better mech I can't afford."

Losing when they have said better mech, then coming into the forums to whine about balance, and getting 'ignored' by the developer?

[Victor Morson]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Your assuming newbies can hit stuff.

Why do you assume they can't?

Of all the skills in MechWarrior to learn, hitting things with guns is probably the easiest.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 November 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

ECM never sucks...LOL

Sure it can. A lone ECM without backup can't shut down a missile boat, can't stop Streaks, and can be easily countered in a ton of ways. To top it off, if people aren't bothering to stay in the radius, it's not all that helpful to the team.

It's just not that great in pugs.

Edited by Victor Morson, 28 November 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Schrottfrosch]

The Founder Mechs are actually great as newbie-mechs:

Jenner is kinda an all purpose platform - with various setups you can go for recon, light hunting or sniping. The main reason is, the weapon hard points are high up in the arms, so no shots into ground (hello cataphract...).

Hunchback - everyone dislikes the hunch, but the variants are very versatile - also you have the SP...

Catapult - JJs, and the K2 enables you to test everything out - missiles, AC/s, Lazors/PPCs whatever - in my opinion the secret best mech for all newbs, enabling a feeling for all weapon systems and JJs.

Atlas - DDC is very useful and there are enough variants to test everything out - it is expensive though, but also iconical and comes with really good survivability, which is good for newbs!

Jumpsniping by the way should not be good way to start your mech-carrier. I consider myself being ok as a normal mech-pilot and I still have huge problems hitting something while jumping. My brawling setups or pure extreme range sniping setups normally net me more income than my attempts on jumpsniping.

TBH this jumpsniping thing should just be deleted - by removing the ability to fire weapons while JJs are active, or you are in the air - it would be kinda realistic, too - something firing an AC/20 midair might actually land facedown quickly in my opinion...

[Victor Morson]

Schrottfrosch, on 28 November 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

TBH this jumpsniping thing should just be deleted - by removing the ability to fire weapons while JJs are active, or you are in the air - it would be kinda realistic, too - something firing an AC/20 midair might actually land facedown quickly in my opinion...

Of all the wrong things in this post, this is the most wrong.

Schrottfrosch, on 28 November 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Jumpsniping by the way should not be good way to start your mech-carrier. I consider myself being ok as a normal mech-pilot and I still have huge problems hitting something while jumping. My brawling setups or pure extreme range sniping setups normally net me more income than my attempts on jumpsniping.

It's because you are doing it wrong. This is how you jump snipe:

1: Get an idea of where the target is, ideally
2: Jump until your guns have cleared the terrain.
3: Point your arms at what you're trying to shoot and enable Arm Lock.
4: Release Jets.
5: Immediately after releasing the jets (almost one motion), fire your guns.
6: Land & Repeat.

Step 3 & 5 are keys to being good at it, though if you run Arm Lock all the time, that can also work. It's faster to quick snap that way though.

[Satan n stuff]

Victor Morson, on 28 November 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

It's faster to quick snap that way though.

No it's not, I've tested it myself and there is no actual difference, it just looks faster.

[Victor Morson]

***** n stuff, on 29 November 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

No it's not, I've tested it myself and there is no actual difference, it just looks faster.

It depends how far the arm cursor is from the torso cursor.

If it's close, the torso will exceed it's normal speed limit. If it's far away, it will not.

PS: I still think arm lock should be removed. It was put in to help newbies (it hurts them through bad habits), but all it ended up doing was helping snipers.

Edited by Victor Morson, 29 November 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[Mycrus]

This thread's sister is lonely in k-town...

[Alaskan Nobody]

And the necromancer rises from his grave as an undead lich king!

[Mycrus]

Shar Wolf, on 12 May 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

And the necromancer rises from his grave as an undead lich king!

this needs a meme...

[Tekadept]

Mycrus, on 12 May 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

This thread's sister is lonely in k-town...

Edited by Tekadept, 12 May 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[n r g]

Victor Morson, on 22 November 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

This is just a brief guide to answer the question that keeps popping up around here. "What 'mech should I buy first?" Well, this guide will hopefully shine some light on that. The criteria for a recommendation is:

• Ease of use: It has to have a number of straight forward configurations.
  
• Reliability: No gimmicks.
  
• Diverse: The variants have to allow for a diverse set of configurations, so new people can find their feet.
  
• Durability: The 'mech has to have at least moderate or better durability; infamously "squishy" 'mechs like the Jaggermech don't show up here as a result.
  
• Lasting Appeal: They have to be 'mechs that are also in the top meta, so that they will last the pilot for a long time.

That said, the four winners are:


ASSAULT: Highlander
Honorable Mention: Victor 9S [ 2x AC5/2x PPC / 1x AC20/2x PPC ]

The Highlander is pretty much the top assault at the moment. Previously the 732 was considered universally the best but recent changes to the meta means that all Highlanders are more than acceptable. You'll be able to configure these as anything from missile boats to brawlers to snipers, variant depending, but there are no real bum models right now.

The Victor scores an honorable mention, being more agile than the Highlander while carrying similar firepower, effectively being the middle ground between Cataphract and Highlander.

Popular Highlander Configurations: 2x AC5, 2x PPC - 2x UAC5, 2x PPC - 1x AC20 2x PPC

The Hero: The Heavy Metal is a worthwhile, easily recommendable hero. It's main strength is that it splits the energy and ballistics to different sides of the chassis, getting around the Highlander's biggest weakness: All the main guns being on one side. It's a solid pick up if you are looking to purchase a grinding 'mech.

The Victor's Dragon Slayer is also highly effective if you prefer popular small ballistic weapons like the AC/5, with a similar weapon location split to the Heavy Metal.

HEAVY: Cataphract

The Cataphract 3D is widely considered the best heavy in the game due to it's solid weapons layout, jumping capability, and potential to fit a number of different powerful setups on it. The 4X was previously considered terrible, but has come to top tier in recent times due to the power of ACs; the 2X's launcher has been updated so that it makes an effective SRM delivery platform, you can combine with AC/20s. Really the 1X is the only one I cannot recommend, being a mostly inferior 3D without jumping capability.

Popular Cataphract Configurations: 2x PPC 1x AC20, 2x AC/5 2x PPC, 1x AC/20 4x ML, 1x AC20 2x SRM6 2x ML, 4 Large Lasers, 4x AC/5

The Hero: Considered the best hero in the game by many, the Ilya Muromets is extremely good as a cash grinder, and has even begun showing up in serious games in the current meta. Typically fitting 3x AC/5 or UAC/5 and 3x Medium Lasers (though other configurations are definitely possible), the Muromets turns in massive damage numbers consistently, translating into a huge amount of cbills for the pilot. Highly recommended as a first hero option.

MEDIUM: Shadow Hawk
Honorable Mention: 3x SRM6 2x ML Centurion 9A

The Shadow Hawk has really taken the crown for being the best available medium 'mech. While configurations are still settling into the chassis, between each variant, you will find something for any style of play you are interested in outside of recon, as there are no unrestricted engine Shadow Hawk equivalents to the Centurion 9D or Trebuchet 3C. With ballistic setups, energy setups, and missile setups spread between the different models, you can't go wrong. To top it all off, all of the chest mounts are "high mounted" which means unlike low mounted guns, they will hit most anything you can see with your cockpit.

The Centurion remains an honorable mention, however, as a very simple to drive and highly durable 'mech when running a standard engine. People who are VERY new to MechWarrior may prefer a Centurion with 3x SRM6 2x Medium Lasers or 3x SRM4 2x Medium Pulse Lasers to ease into the game, and the Centurion remains one of the more durable 'mechs in existence.

Popular Shadow Hawk Configurations: 2x AC/5 1x PPC, 1x AC20 2x ML, 2x LRM15 1x TAG, 4 Streak/2, 2 ML + Large XL Engine, many more to come.

The Hero: None exists, outside of the unique Phoenix model; this is a visual make over and cbill booster only. The hero for the honorable mention (The Yen-Lo-Wang) should be avoided at all costs however, as it's arm is easy to remove and it contains 90% of it's firepower.

LIGHT: The Jenner

There is no other option for a starting light than the Jenner. The Locust and Commando are terrible 'mechs that are too light to complete. The Spider's hitbox change has taken away it's biggest advantage. The Raven's lack of jump capability and the lack of focus on ECM has put it into the 2nd tier as well.

A powerful light with the most firepower and armor for it's class in the game, the Jenner is currently the uncontested at recon, anti-light and anti-heavy. If you like high speed recon 'mechs, this is the place to start!

Popular Jenner Setups: 4x ML, 6x SPL, 4x ML 2x Streak/2, 4x SPL 2x Streak/2, 2 ER Large

The Hero: While there are two unique variants of the Jenner - The Founder Jenner and Sarah's Jenner - neither are different than the D outside of C-bill bonuses on the Founder's model.

----

Still not sure? Before you buy your 'mech (and if you want to make sure you have chosen the right variant), check out Smurfy's. It will let you construct your 'mech before you even make the purchase, so you know exactly what you are working towards!

Remember, you need to own three chassis to master them on the pilot tree, so eventually you will want to buy more 'mechs to match your first chassis, so definitely take that into consideration with your selection!

Good luck!

Very good guide

[Ursh]

I think the Fire-starter might be a more interesting starter mech than the Jenners, personally. You can spread damage a bit better, and you generally lose your arms before you lose a torso if you're moving around a bit.

I agree with the Shawk being the medium of choice for a new player. Centurions are okay, but they suck at sniping. H-backs, as outlined in another recent thread, are actually pretty terrible for new pilots because the hunch gets taken off so quickly and so easily even by mediocre players like myself. But hey, they can learn how to run around with two medium lasers for 90% of the match after they get neutered!

I wouldn't say the Jaeger is unfriendly to new players. With those high-mounted guns they need to maneuver far less than a cataphract does to get good shots. The Jaeger is point->click->boom!, while the cataphract adds the dimension of making sure terrain isn't blocking your shots, which means new players will often end up putting themselves into a more dangerous position piloting a cataphract. As far as heavies go, the Jaeger might be the most satisfying to new players because it enables them to dish out a high amount of damage relative to their skill level. Also, they can use relatively similar setups between three variants, saving them money on buying new guns and engines.

For assaults, I'm kind of in agreement with the highlander, even though personally I see a lot more Victors these days. The Stalker shouldn't be left out of the discussion though, because of its hill-humping ability.

[Mycrus]

3N3RGY, on 13 May 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

Very good guide

Ursh, on 13 May 2014 - 03:55 AM, said:

I think the Fire-starter might be a more interesting starter mech than the Jenners, personally. You can spread damage a bit better, and you generally lose your arms before you lose a torso if you're moving around a bit.

I agree with the Shawk being the medium of choice for a new player. Centurions are okay, but they suck at sniping. H-backs, as outlined in another recent thread, are actually pretty terrible for new pilots because the hunch gets taken off so quickly and so easily even by mediocre players like myself. But hey, they can learn how to run around with two medium lasers for 90% of the match after they get neutered!

I wouldn't say the Jaeger is unfriendly to new players. With those high-mounted guns they need to maneuver far less than a cataphract does to get good shots. The Jaeger is point->click->boom!, while the cataphract adds the dimension of making sure terrain isn't blocking your shots, which means new players will often end up putting themselves into a more dangerous position piloting a cataphract. As far as heavies go, the Jaeger might be the most satisfying to new players because it enables them to dish out a high amount of damage relative to their skill level. Also, they can use relatively similar setups between three variants, saving them money on buying new guns and engines.

For assaults, I'm kind of in agreement with the highlander, even though personally I see a lot more Victors these days. The Stalker shouldn't be left out of the discussion
though, because of its hill-humping ability.

U guys do realize this is a necro

[Ursh]

Mycrus, on 13 May 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

U guys do realize this is a necro

Yes, but like a good babyboomer, I just can't let go of the past.

[ApolloKaras]

Mycrus, on 13 May 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

U guys do realize this is a necro

We also realize you necro'd it.

It's a good guide Victor. I'm on board with all the suggestions! I would till take the Jenner over the Firestarter... The legs are too big lol