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1St Buy. Hunchback 4H Or Cataphract 3D


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#1 Verloc Nostromo

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:50 PM

So, yea. I'm a new player looking to acquire my 1st mech and I think I have it narrowed to the Hunchy or the cataphract. I came down to these 2 as they seem to be very flexible chasis. It will likely have to last me a long while as I dont really plan on spending real $$ on the game.
Truthfully I dont even know the right questions to ask so any help you guys could give would be awesome.

I'd love to have a clan Summoner (Thor) been my favorite since tabletop, but apparently clan mechs arent purchasable.

Edited by Verloc Nostromo, 22 November 2013 - 05:03 PM.


#2 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:11 PM

3D!!!!! No brainer

#3 scJazz

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:14 PM

View PostVerloc Nostromo, on 22 November 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

So, yea. I'm a new player looking to acquire my 1st mech and I think I have it narrowed to the Hunchy or the cataphract. I came down to these 2 as they seem to be very flexible chasis. It will likely have to last me a long while as I dont really plan on spending real $$ on the game.
Truthfully I dont even know the right questions to ask so any help you guys could give would be awesome.

I'd love to have a clan Summoner (Thor) been my favorite since tabletop, but apparently clan mechs arent purchasable.

Cataphract 3D... period... done.

/thread

#4 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:15 PM

Let me tell you why. Its a heavy mech = more firepower = more viriety in loadouts. And it has jump jets! You can stuff that baby with 2 Gauses and a ERPPC. But if you dont want firepower and perfer speed you can make it fast. Fast enough to catch and kill that hunchie you are chasing

#5 Koniving

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:15 PM

Out of those two, the Cataphract 3D is far superior. But to go with the 3D as your first mech? Probably not such a good idea.

It's far too expensive to even get your hands on a Cataphract 3D let alone outfit it to something useful with the wages you probably have at the moment.

How about some middle ground? Have you checked out the Shadowhawks? You get the 3D's jumping ability with any of the Shadowhawks and all of them can replicate the "big cannon in the shoulder" of the Hunchbacks.

Shadowhawk will be a lot more affordable than the Cataphract 3D, and yet more survivable than the Hunchback.

Edited by Koniving, 22 November 2013 - 05:16 PM.


#6 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

3D: dont like gauss, no problem, get that AC-20 in there or 2 AC-10s or 2 Ultras and back those babys up with heavy lasors or ppc's

Dont get a medium, they are not flexible enough. Youll run out of tonnage.

#7 Verloc Nostromo

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:43 PM

Ok, so the 3D wins hands down aparently. So now Koniving has me intrigued, what Hawk should I be looking at to put up against the 3D? Also, if the 3D is too expensive to start out with, should I look at the 4x instead? I'm not hung up on jump jets btw, just a nice to, not a need to.
Thanks for the input so far guys.

Edited by Verloc Nostromo, 22 November 2013 - 05:47 PM.


#8 CheeseThief

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

The Hunchback is a great learning mech and an exceptional choice for a first purchase.

The HBK-4G lets you fool around with lots of balistic heavy loadouts.
The HBK-4P lets gives you lots of energy hardpoints to work with.
The HBK-4SP is an exceptionally tough little mech with good missile and energy hardpoint placement.

The hunchbacks are exceptionally cheap to buy and upgrade since it doesn't need an XL engine, but still leave lots of options with endo, ferro, DHS and standard engine sizes, all tied up in a small sized package with exceptional handing.

For a first mech I would ALWAYS recommend a hunchback.



The CTF-3D is an entirely different beast.

The 3D is an exceptional mech when upgraded, with good hitboxes, versitile weapon hard points and jumpjets, however your going to be throwing your entire cadet bonus at this one mech and then some because the stock chassis is underarmoured and with poor weapon choices.

The 3D is a great mech, but I wouldn't recommend it for the same reasons I wouldn't recommend you get an Atlas D-DC as your first mech, both are exceptional choices and are well loved by the community, but both will eat the entirety of your entire cadet bonus and leave you with a single mech that will be stuck on basic effeciencies for a long time.



Get the hunchbacks first, they are quick, cheap, versitile and fun, and after you have played around with them and experienced all the weapon types, then set about working towards the more advanced and expensive mechs like the CTF-3D.

#9 scJazz

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:53 PM

Koniving is always right... he posts what the rest of us to not take the time to do.

The Cataphract is going to run around 12 to 13 to fit.

The Shadow Hawk 5m will cost 8.2m and comes with all the necessary toys really.

I'm a Master pilot in both and honestly can't choose a favorite.

For price alone get the SHD-5M.

#10 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

Cataphracts are more expensive but ill cost you more if you choose to upgrade from medium to heavy. Itll be cheeper to take a heavy straight away.

#11 scJazz

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostVerloc Nostromo, on 22 November 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, so the 3D wins hands down aparently. So now Koniving has me intrigued, what Hawk should I be looking at to put up against the 3D? Also, if the 3D is too expensive to start out with, should I look at the 4x instead? I'm not hung up on jump jets btw, just a nice to, not a need to.
Thanks for the input so far guys.

The 4x is horrible! Ignore it! Pretend there is only one Cataphract worth buying and understand you have to get two more to ELITE/MASTER. There is only one Cataphract :P The 3D

#12 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

CTF-4X can pack 4 AC-5. mmmm me gustaa

that will destroy the feared 3 UAC-5 ILYA Moromets.

But ILYA can pack 3 AC-10s witch is the only mech in the game that can do that.

Edited by Turist0AT, 22 November 2013 - 06:05 PM.


#13 Wildstreak

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:03 PM

Hucnhback advatages:
Torso Twist - While some Mechs come close, only matched by the Cicada and beaten by the Locust.
Cheap - of the 50 ton and up catagory. Some Mechs you have to get a third variant costing 1 1/2x to 2x the cost of the other two just to Master, all Hunchies are nearly the same bought stock.
No Hero Mech - Some Mechs people will strongly recommend the Hero such as the Phract's IM as a valuable one, at least 3 of the Hunchies are still playable.
Medium - despite what some say, if you know how to use a Medium's speed and firepower, it can still work.

Hucnhback disadvantages:
Hunch - on all but the 4SP. A great big target, might change when they get to varying the weapon meshes on it based on loadout. 4J is the worst followed by the 4G.

Try reading the Ultimate Hunchback Guide topic for more.

Cataphract - couldn't say, never had one but I have read the Ilya is considered worth paying for.

#14 Koniving

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:09 PM

View PostTurist0AT, on 22 November 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

CTF-4X can pack 4 AC-5. mmmm me gustaa
that will destroy the feared 3 UAC-5 ILYA Moromets.


I know. I miss when that meant something. Sadly the Jager can do the same and more effectively. But a Jager can't take the same beating.

View PostVerloc Nostromo, on 22 November 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

Ok, so the 3D wins hands down aparently. So now Koniving has me intrigued, what Hawk should I be looking at to put up against the 3D? Also, if the 3D is too expensive to start out with, should I look at the 4x instead? I'm not hung up on jump jets btw, just a nice to, not a need to.
Thanks for the input so far guys.


To be honest the 4x was my first cataphract and I had it for months before I got another one. It can be a tough runt but it is impossibly slow compared to others and tough on a new player.

All of the Shadowhawks can do most of the same stuff, so variant wise there's little difference. However the 5M does come with double heatsinks and an XL engine already, making it the most worthwhile investment. (saves you having to buy those things. An XL engine is usually in the 4 to 7 million range).

If, for some reason, you go with the Hunchback remember this: Right torso, 46 front armor and 2 rear armor. You will find it much better afterward ("front" encompasses the entire hunch on all sides. "Rear" is about the size of the Hunchback's fist below the hunch).

Beyond that, Hunchbacks have a fair bit of character. The small size it what helps it the most. The 4SP is a better choice as a starting Hunch. Everything said, however, you can't go wrong with a Shadowhawk.

#15 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:10 PM

Koniving:

Jager is 5 tons lighter than Cataphract. Witch is a big minus.

#16 scJazz

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:18 PM

View PostKoniving, on 22 November 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

All of the Shadowhawks can do most of the same stuff, so variant wise there's little difference. However the 5M does come with double heatsinks and an XL engine already, making it the most worthwhile investment. (saves you having to buy those things. An XL engine is usually in the 4 to 7 million range).

Right now as I look back on things the SHD-5M is almost certainly the most cost effective choice of deadly playable competitive mech.

It also comes with ENDO-STEEL.

8.1m done... pew pew and have a nice day!

#17 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:33 PM

3D....

#18 Koniving

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:40 PM

View PostTurist0AT, on 22 November 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

Koniving:

Jager is 5 tons lighter than Cataphract. Witch is a big minus.


True. But ask yourself the big question.
4 AC/5s, reliant on level ground (or flat fields due to mid-body arms) and 64.9 top speed?
Or 4 AC/5s, able to crest hills for pot-shots (due to high-body arms) and 74 kph as a modest speed (but far from the top potential)?

There's pluses and minuses to both. (These are actually just vids of each not pros/cons listings. All vids with the 4X are taken without having ever gotten elites and I haven't really recorded the action with my latest 4x rigs. The jager vids are mastered.)
4x
Spoiler


Jagers.
Spoiler


Admittedly I don't actually like the 4 AC/5 rig. I prefer twin AC/5s and 1 or 2 AC/2s as well.

Edited by Koniving, 22 November 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#19 Turist0AT

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:49 PM

Koniving

hey hey, i agree. lets not go off topic. On the off topic (lol) i personally prefer fully articular arms too.

#20 Koniving

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:56 PM

That's a merit the cataphract has over the Jager.

But yeah back on topic. Shadowhawk's a good middle ground between them. I really like the Thunderbolt but it'll be another month before you can get that.

Oh and I'll be honest -- the 3D is the only Cataphract I've never owned.

Posted Image

(Another secret: I sold the 4x... and bought it again a month later 'cause I missed it.)

Edited by Koniving, 22 November 2013 - 07:04 PM.






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