93 replies to this topic

[Greyboots]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

I swear your wrong about the heat dissapation it goes down slightly faster then normal when standing still and if you dont believe me then I guess its just my opinion now is it?

Yes, it goes down slightly faster. This is because walking is constant generation of heat.

Next time you are in a temperate or hot map, look at your idle heat while standing still. Tap the "+" button to slowly increase your speed and watch your heat level. Your constant heat level will slowly increase with your speed (an average of about 3% with ice maps being less and hot maps being up to 4).

It doesn't "spike" with each step like firing a weapon will do.

What you are observing is the lack of the constant heat generation from walking, not an accelerated dissipation.

The end result is the same, the reason why is just different.

Why does it matter? Because different speeds produce different amounts of constant heat depending on how fast your mech is moving compared to it's maximum speed. The slower you walk the less constant heat you will generate. It's not just "standing still" that makes a difference, even just slowing down will increase the amount of heat you have to use as ammo.

Note: You will also notice the same phenomena from the constant heat generation from Jumping.

Edited by Greyboots, 23 November 2013 - 07:25 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Turist0AT, on 23 November 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

as an LPL user, i dont agree with you.

Pulse lasers in general are pretty bad although LPL are certainly the worst of the lot. Pulse lasers really need to do 3-5 pulses of damage rather than be hit scan weapons IMO.

[Mcgral18]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

That's your opinion though. I do better in energy builds than I do ballistics. So my opinion is that they're actually better than dakkas.

Ammo-less and at range they can be useful, up close they will normally overheat before ballistic, while dealing less sustained damage. Flamers, most pulse lasers and SLs are less effective, while almost all ballistic weapons have a purpose (perhaps the MG can be excluded).
Between front loaded damage and the 3X range, it's hard to beat dakka. Lack of travel time does help the lasers, though.

[Whatzituyah]

Greyboots, on 23 November 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Yes, it goes down slightly faster. This is because walking is constant generation of heat.

Next time you are in a hot map, look at your idle heat and then move to full speed. Your speed will make your heat sit at a constant point about 3% ish above the idle heat. It doesn't "spike" with each step like firing a weapon will do.

What you are observing is the lack of the constant heat generation from walking, not an accelerated dissipation.

The end result is the same, the reason why is just different.

Getting technical here? Ok Mr. Technical does this mean if you powerdown your heat generation is gone because you off? I like to see you try to prove that one.

[GalaxyBluestar]

I prefer the manuvering advantage cause I can handle the heat.

that aside now that hitreg is working these laser boats can be used against the dakkas. playstyle is key.

before I was convinced that ac's were outdoing lasers

what was {and could still be} transpiring was hitreg being totally broken so at least 50% of the damge in a laser's duration was not being dealt to the target which gives particular players the perception that lasers are totally *****.

so i'd say if the damage output is poor and lack of red cross hair is occouring than report it in the patch feedback section and stay away from lasers though more than likely if it's that bad then perhaps an lurm boat could be your only chance at racking damage up. if your hitreg is good then lasers should be doing just fine. that's what i've learnt this frustrating month. it's not weapon balance there's the netcode HSR to consider as well.

if it's working properly than a fully dedicated laser boat can still do well.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 23 November 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Greyboots]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Getting technical here? Ok Mr. Technical does this mean if you powerdown your heat generation is gone because you off? I like to see you try to prove that one.

By your obvious attempt at deflection I see you've clicked on to the fact that I'm right.

[xCico]

About walking and moving
YES cooldown is better when you are standing still!

Now for ACs and lasers?
Yes ACs are better because of pinpoint, cooldown and heat, energy weapons do need buff, how? There is full of suggestions on forum, there has to be one good!
I say bigger damage, little less CD and shorter beam duration, only for lasers! For ppcs they are fine.

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 23 November 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Ammo-less and at range they can be useful, up close they will normally overheat before ballistic, while dealing less sustained damage. Flamers, most pulse lasers and SLs are less effective, while almost all ballistic weapons have a purpose (perhaps the MG can be excluded).
Between front loaded damage and the 3X range, it's hard to beat dakka. Lack of travel time does help the lasers, though.

They're not a brawling weapon, that's not their purpose. When I'm in my energy boat I don't try to brawl, If I'm in a short range energy build then I usually rely on my team and use them and take on more of a skirmisher role.

19cico96, on 23 November 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

About walking and moving
YES cooldown is better when you are standing still!

Now for ACs and lasers?
Yes ACs are better

That's your opinion though. I think they're great right where they're at. Just like anything else, they require a certain skill set to use and in the right hands are just as effective as any other weapon in the game.

[Escef]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 23 November 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Pulse lasers in general are pretty bad although LPL are certainly the worst of the lot. Pulse lasers really need to do 3-5 pulses of damage rather than be hit scan weapons IMO.

What pulses need is a range buff. The LPL should be optimum out to 360 (instead of 300), and the MPL should go to 210 (not 180). The SPL... Really, no one uses any kind of small laser much, they could Urbanmech-through-armor-crit buff them and no one would notice.

[Lykaon]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

You don't have to agree with me! I just wish I could duel you ingame to prove what I am doing. But alas there is not an arena to do it on yet.

Situation is as follows.

A Jagermech breaks cover from around a corner and comes rushing straight towards you uleashing a hail of AC ammo at you.Your Battlemaster (with it's 20 ton weight advantage) fires off a PPC and 6 medium lasers.The PPC registers a good hit but somehow the medium lasers under perform for damage and hit reg. The Jager now has some moderate damage you have some significant damage from the Jager and you also have high heat.The Jager is cool and continuing a constant hail of fire.

You now fire a second volley minus the PPC (min range and ER-PPC is way to hot to use on a Batlemaster 1G with 6 med lasers) The 6 medium lasers again fail to register the damage they should and now your mech is in critical condition and near critical heat levels.The still cool Jager is still firing a constant hail of ac ammo.

You now fire off the final volley of 6 medium lasers before the Jager cores you out without it ever hitting critical heat levels or a breach in it's armor.

I frequently experienced this so I stopped using medium lasers on my BLR I now use 2 AC 5 and a single PPC with much improved results.

This is very strange to me because I do not see the medium lasers performing as poorly on other builds I have that also use massed medium lasers.My hunchback 4P does fine my Jenner does fine my Battlemaster can't dish damage???

[Sandpit]

Lykaon, on 24 November 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Situation is as follows.

A Jagermech breaks cover from around a corner and comes rushing straight towards you uleashing a hail of AC ammo at you.Your Battlemaster (with it's 20 ton weight advantage) fires off a PPC and 6 medium lasers.The PPC registers a good hit but somehow the medium lasers under perform for damage and hit reg. The Jager now has some moderate damage you have some significant damage from the Jager and you also have high heat.The Jager is cool and continuing a constant hail of fire.

You now fire a second volley minus the PPC (min range and ER-PPC is way to hot to use on a Batlemaster 1G with 6 med lasers) The 6 medium lasers again fail to register the damage they should and now your mech is in critical condition and near critical heat levels.The still cool Jager is still firing a constant hail of ac ammo.

You now fire off the final volley of 6 medium lasers before the Jager cores you out without it ever hitting critical heat levels or a breach in it's armor.

I frequently experienced this so I stopped using medium lasers on my BLR I now use 2 AC 5 and a single PPC with much improved results.

This is very strange to me because I do not see the medium lasers performing as poorly on other builds I have that also use massed medium lasers.My hunchback 4P does fine my Jenner does fine my Battlemaster can't dish damage???

Did you stop to consider the MLs were outside of optimal range.........?

[Victor Morson]

Some energy weapons are great.

Most are handicapped by Ghost Heat.

[Blue Hymn]

So I heard you say that energy weapons aren't bad.
If they aren't bad, then why is it so damn rare to see an energy hunchback, quickdraw or an Awesome?

[Whatzituyah]

Blue Hymn, on 24 November 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

So I heard you say that energy weapons aren't bad.
If they aren't bad, then why is it so damn rare to see an energy hunchback, quickdraw or an Awesome?

Bad heat management?

[Victor Morson]

Blue Hymn, on 24 November 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

So I heard you say that energy weapons aren't bad.
If they aren't bad, then why is it so damn rare to see an energy hunchback, quickdraw or an Awesome?

Check the my post directly above yours. The answer is in two words, pretty much.

[KinLuu]

Really good:

PPC
MLas

Ok:

LLas
ERLLas

Meh:

MPLas
SPLas
SLas

Unusable:

LPLas
ERPPC

[MustrumRidcully]

If you really want to know how much heat sinks and ammo of ballistics and energy weapons you need to fight for a while, and how the investment compares to the damage you can achieve, check my signature.

But the overal result:
At close range, energy weapons, particularly the medium laser and small laser, are superior to pretty much any ballistic weapon, pretty much independnt of how long the engagement will last.
At longer ranges and longer durations, balllistics dominate over energy weapons, and energy weapons only compete if you keep it to very short engagements (5 seconds, typical sniping engagement times).

The only thing that you still need to consider is how important pinpoint projectile damage is to you - unless you consider it as a serious drawback, that will usually shift things further in favor of ballistics and PPCs, and against lasers. (But at close range, the MLs still look great.)

[Blurry]

they are great when you run out of ammo

[GalaxyBluestar]

Blue Hymn, on 24 November 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

So I heard you say that energy weapons aren't bad.
If they aren't bad, then why is it so damn rare to see an energy hunchback, quickdraw or an Awesome?

lol believe me it's not energy weapons which gives those chassis a low count on the battlefield.

[VIPER2207]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

...energy weapons have a huge advantage over ammo weapons...