34 replies to this topic

[BlackIronTarkus]

Hello fellow mechwarriors. To get an idea of what people think of certain mech and to help new player decide what kind of battlemech they spend their starter CB on I made this thread to rate battlemech overal difficulty.

Be it, difficulty to use, make a viable build out of them or simply how hard it is to master them. For instance its harder to master atlas because of their cost unlike jenners. But this is all subjective, you can give a low score for your own reasons, but we love to know why.

So, let me start! (you can simply copy and paste my list, then change the numbers)

(1 is very easy, and 10 is very hard to use.)

lights

locust-------------- 10/10 So light that you can't make a difference, die easily, no jumpjets.
commando-------- 9/10 Very light, barely make a difference, die easily, no jumpjets.
spider-------------- 5/10
jenner-------------- 4/10
raven--------------- 6/10

medium

cicada-------------- 8/10 Nothing a jenner can't do, no jumpjets, not enough speed.
blackjack---------- 6/10
centurion---------- 4/10
hunchback-------- 3/10
trebuchet --------- 9/10 Way too big.
kintaro------------- 8/10 Too big and not enough tons for heavy armaments
shadowhawk----- 2/10

heavies

dragon------------ 10/10 center torso is constantly exposed, torso twist is null.
quickdraw--------- 6/10
catapult----------- 5/10
jagermech-------- 1/10
thunderbolt------- 3/10
cataphract-------- 3/10
orion--------------- 5/10

assault

awesome--------- 10/10 Low speed, no ballistic, wider than a barn
victor-------------- 2/10
battlemaster----- 3/10
stalker------------ 3/10
highlander------- 1/10
atlas-------------- 4/10

Have fun!

[Marmon Rzohr]

I would put the Stalker as 2 and victor as 3/4.

The stalker is friendly and has lots of firepower, I renember I usually did best with it when I started MWO, while to get the best in the Victor you need to be handy with JJs.

I'd also put the Centurion as 2. It's one of the best mechs to start in. It's durable even if you don't torso twist very well, fast, but not too fast, and packs a punch.

Other than that interesting idea with the ratings

[LowSubmarino]

Are we talking about sheer survivability? Or a mechs ability to dish out dmg? Or a mix of both. And what about speed.

It is too complex to apply a rating system like this to all available mechs. Based on the general tone in the forums I'd smply point out those variants in all weightclasses that have more disadvantages then advantages.

Examples would be quickraw or locust to name some. Those I would not recommend for somebody just starting to play. Or to anybody else for that matter.

[DONTOR]

Interesting I disagree with alot, but Im not new so theres that. Really good effort on trying to support new players though! Jaeger is absolutely a 1. That would be my first suggestion for new players.

[Marmon Rzohr]

oneda, on 26 November 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Are we talking about sheer survivability? Or a mechs ability to dish out dmg? Or a mix of both. And what about speed.

It is too complex to apply a rating system like this to all available mechs. Based on the general tone in the forums I'd smply point out those variants in all weightclasses that have more disadvantages then advantages.

Examples would be quickraw or locust to name some. Those I would not recommend for somebody just starting to play. Or to anybody else for that matter.

How easy a mech is to use. Let's give an example. While a Uac5 + PPC 733C poptart can do a lot more damage then a Centurion 9A, it takes more skill to use the UACs which jam and the PPCs which have a 90m dead zone, not to mention the jump jets, hence the Cent is a better mech to start with if you've just gotten into the game.

That's at least my reference. The easiest mechs to use would be ones that require the least learning of things very specific to the game or to weapon system. Weapons like the SRM, the ML, the LL and the AC20 are self explanatory and quite easy to use since they are best at close to medium ranges, don't require much heat management or landing successive shots (like an AC2 or an UAC5 would). Consequently the mechs that can use these weapons well are the easiest to start in. Especially if the mech in question has good hitboxes that will allow it to survive lots of fire even without torso twisting. And, if possible, some speed to let you get out of trouble and move around the map - in a slow assault you usually need to know where you want to go, which is not the case when you don't know the maps

That's why the top 4 starters IMHO, would be the Cent (#1), the Hunch(#2), the Stalker(#3) (even has high mounted weapons to make shooting from cover easier - when you can see a target in a stalker, you can hit it with the arm mounted weapons), the Jager(#3) and with a good build the Shadow Hawk(#4).

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 26 November 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[luxebo]

Make sure to put everything in consideration, like cost (means something like Hunchback would do better than a Centurion, due to the CN9-D being pretty pricey unless you get Yenlo), survivability, usefulness, easiness of using, etc. Good idea though.

[GalaxyBluestar]

scores are too subjective just use them as fleeting opinion.

i rate all lights high difficulty because my lappy can't handle their speed required.

i rate brawler mechs high in difficulty because it's not my playstyle and again too many explosions in the face equals 10-20FPS

so really it doesn't make sense when you get down to the details. everyone's different and there's a mech for everyone, i know it's rare but some people swear by some of those harder to use mechs.

[Sandpit]

(1 is very easy, and 10 is very hard to use.)

lights

locust-------------- 8/10 As with all lights there's a steep mastery curve. They seem like a good first mech choice at times because of low cost to purchase. This is offset by the ease with which they are killed if not piloted well

commando-------- 6/10 This my be the best "entry" level light. It gives you a good feel for learning to maneuver without jump jets and carries decent armor for a light mech. The hardpoints allow a player to turn it into a decent light hunter and skirmisher

spider-------------- 5/10 This is a great chance for new players to learn ECM mechanics while being able to move anywhere on the map. It's speed and hardpoints can actually make it a great spotter/sniper

jenner-------------- 3/10 In the eyes of many this is the premiere light mech. It is heavily armored, fast, and deadly with tons of variants for just about any kind of weapon configuration a player might want. This is by far the easiest light mech to use while learning how to be effective under 35 tons

raven--------------- 8/10 ECM and a variety of hardpoints may make this seem like a good "starter" mech but its relatively limited speed and mobility (compared to other lights) make it a bit harder to master. The Raven is easy to use but very hard to master. It is best used in support roles as opposed to direct combat.

medium

cicada-------------- 8/10 Nothing a jenner can't do, no jumpjets, not enough speed.
blackjack---------- 6/10
centurion---------- 4/10
hunchback-------- 3/10
trebuchet --------- 9/10 Way too big.
kintaro------------- 8/10 Too big and not enough tons for heavy armaments
shadowhawk----- 2/10

heavies

dragon------------ 10/10 center torso is constantly exposed, torso twist is null.
quickdraw--------- 6/10
catapult----------- 5/10
jagermech-------- 1/10
thunderbolt------- 3/10
cataphract-------- 3/10
orion--------------- 5/10

assault

awesome--------- 10/10 Low speed, no ballistic, wider than a barn
victor-------------- 2/10
battlemaster----- 3/10
stalker------------ 3/10
highlander------- 1/10
atlas-------------- 4/10


EDIT: Filled in Lights

Edited by Sandpit, 28 November 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Sandpit, on 26 November 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

I'm placeholding. I like the idea but Galaxy is right, this will be very subjective and depends almost entirely upon play style

I think this is the wrong approach. Most new players don't have a play style. They deveolp one. Think back to when you first started. I just hopped from one trial mech to the next until i got enough cash, in the mean time i looked up builds on the forums, found this thread, looked the prices up, and since I always like the hunchback I went with that.

While playing the Hunches I was learning the game. You get to see all the mech types there are, how they perform and what they do. Once you do, you start thinking, hey for my next mech I could do some heavy that's good with ranged weapons. So I went for the Catapult, because there were lots of cool builds for the K2, it looked sexy and people agreed it was a good mech.



That is the point of threads like this. To give people info for reference. You can say, "Hey mechs X,Y and Z are your best bets when starting the game because they are easy to learn". Ultimately people will find new mechs they like better maybe, or go for a completely different play style then the started with. But even then, when someone wants to try lights out after mastering 3 heavy mechs they can look up and see, "Hey, the easiest starting point for lights is the Jenner".

As far as subjectiveness goes, well, there always is some, but I think we can all agree on some things like that the centurion is easier then the blackjack. Which brings us to the next point, if let's say 100 people respond to this thread and most of them, let's say rate the Stalker low so it has an average difficulty rating of 2.3, then it really is an easy mech to master if a lot of varied people found it very usable.

[GalaxyBluestar]

having said all that marmon would you agree with the OP's list? i'm sure if this was brought to more people's attention there would be disagreements in many parts. there are some general easy mechs for ease of use more usefull tactics and some mechs considered too hard to be usefull but regardless of what people grow to learn with their newfound playstyle, different people will have different ideas, there's no one list to rule them all.

[Mr David]

I love the OP list. Generally, I think it is very well organized. One thing to consider is the need for XL engines or non-stock standard engines for good builds. As a new player, cbills are really hard to come by after the cadet bonus. Some mechs need an XL to carry a decent loadout, but those are very intimidating to purchase. Mechs that can run good loads on standard engines could use a buff. Mechs with one or two weapons groups on typical loadouts are also good for new players.

The lights are spot on. The mediums are good too, but I would drop the Kintaro to a 4 since it will have only two weapons groups and nearly all of them have streaks which require no skill. They will all need an XL though to be decent. Trebs are also great for new players as a chassis group. While they are big, they spread damage incredibly well, similar to Shadowhawks which share the same towering profile. Each shadow hawk can carry all three weapons groups and almost requires them to be useful. Each Treb allows two, a benefit to new players who have a tough time pressing 3 mouse buttons. Some may only have 2 buttons to begin with. Trebs are also one of the lowest priority targets in the game. LRM 30 w/ 2ML backup, 2xAC5+ 2ML (dont even need DHS), 2LL+3ML all on actuated arms w/JJ are 3 very basic Treb chassis configurations friendly to new players. I would drop Trebs to a 4.

I would also drop the Orion to a 2-4 after the patch. STD Engine friendly, massive armor, great damage spread. Perfect nice level stock engine, AC20 for good damage and kill power, lasers in both arms for not getting light molested too. The VA can be a streak ***** or LRM boat which is very noob friendly. All variants have the generous tubes for LRMs as supporting weapons at least. The K can run huge lasers in the arm for when aim is 'improving'. It's also not terribly slow or a high priority target like assault mechs.

I would raise the Highlander to a 4-5. The most effective builds rely on good pinpoint aim which new players won't have. They also often can't protect specific torsos, which Highlanders require.

Thuds suck. I will duel any thud with a treb or shadowhawk. 7/10. Still better than a Jester.

Lastly, Battlemasters are in no way easy to pilot. They are XL friendly like Victors but lack JJs and AC20 capabilities. Most have 3 weapons groups. Loads of torso mounted lasers do not make for a good mech when beam duration is so long. Assault chassis that twist slow are even worse. Only one variant can do LRM or streak boating, but it has all torso mounted energy. LRM BM's are a light's dream target. I normally pilot mediums and heavies. I find BM's a great way to pad damage and kills stats with low risk (except a well equipped D variant!). Only Awesomes are still less dangerous in the assault class. Sorry, patch helped it, but hardpoints still suck hard on the Awesome.

Aside from my few constructive criticisms, I really love the list. I think it would be valuable for any new player getting into MWO. To me, to top noob friendly mechs in no particular order are: Centurion, Hunch, Treb, XL Victor, Orion, Cataphract, Shawk.

Edited by Mr David, 27 November 2013 - 05:34 AM.

[Sandpit]

Marmon Rzohr, on 27 November 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

I think this is the wrong approach. Most new players don't have a play style. They deveolp one. Think back to when you first started. I just hopped from one trial mech to the next until i got enough cash, in the mean time i looked up builds on the forums, found this thread, looked the prices up, and since I always like the hunchback I went with that.

While playing the Hunches I was learning the game. You get to see all the mech types there are, how they perform and what they do. Once you do, you start thinking, hey for my next mech I could do some heavy that's good with ranged weapons. So I went for the Catapult, because there were lots of cool builds for the K2, it looked sexy and people agreed it was a good mech.



That is the point of threads like this. To give people info for reference. You can say, "Hey mechs X,Y and Z are your best bets when starting the game because they are easy to learn". Ultimately people will find new mechs they like better maybe, or go for a completely different play style then the started with. But even then, when someone wants to try lights out after mastering 3 heavy mechs they can look up and see, "Hey, the easiest starting point for lights is the Jenner".

As far as subjectiveness goes, well, there always is some, but I think we can all agree on some things like that the centurion is easier then the blackjack. Which brings us to the next point, if let's say 100 people respond to this thread and most of them, let's say rate the Stalker low so it has an average difficulty rating of 2.3, then it really is an easy mech to master if a lot of varied people found it very usable.

........
uhm ok, you just told me your opinion was right and mine was wrong in a thread that's nothing but opinions on mechs lol when I haven't even rated any mechs yet

[Marmon Rzohr]

Sandpit, on 27 November 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

........
uhm ok, you just told me your opinion was right and mine was wrong in a thread that's nothing but opinions on mechs lol when I haven't even rated any mechs yet

I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I wasn't trying to say that you were wrong or I right, merely to suggest a way of looking at the list.

Because, you are completely right, opinions are opinions and by virtue of ppl being different, someone will learn lights faster then assaults and vice versa. But if we just think of what mech was easiest, most natural to learn for us when we started (not how they look to us now that most of us have a preferred role, playstyle etc.) and everyone does the same thing we'll have a quite decent pile of info and some mechs will shine through as being the easiest on average.

Plus some things we can try to work out from an objective standpoint. Hitboxes and possible loadouts for example. (a mech that works best with LRMs is probably not the way to get when starting the game etc.)

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 27 November 2013 - 10:36 AM.

[Sandpit]

Marmon Rzohr, on 27 November 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I wasn't trying to say that you were wrong or I right, merely to suggest a way of looking at the list.

Because, you are completely right, opinions are opinions and by virtue of ppl being different, someone will learn lights faster then assaults and vice versa. But if we just think of what mech was easiest, most natural to learn for us when we started (not how they look to us now that most of us have a preferred role, playstyle etc.) and everyone does the same thing we'll have a quite decent pile of info and some mechs will shine through as being the easiest on average.

Plus some things we can try to work out from an objective standpoint. Hitboxes and possible loadouts for example. (a mech that works best with LRMs is probably not the way to get when starting the game etc.)

I gotcha

I agree but there are some mechs that are simply harder to learn to use effectively. To me, for a new pilot, mediums and heavies are the easiest to learn the game with. Lights and Assaults have steeper learning curves to use effectively.

Lights sound good but learning how to pilot them, use your speed, and not stand there toe to toe with just about anything can be rough to learn. Assaults have tons of armor and weapons but they're also prime targets that most others will target first when possible which means you're always a priority target taking fire from multiple enemy mechs.

Heavies and mediums can get you the best of both worlds. You can stack up tons of different weapons and armor combinations and even find a few that have terrific mobility. They don't tend to attract more attention then their light and assault counterparts and can get you a longer lifespan on the field.

[Corbon Zackery]

You don't put rookie pilots into a assault slot its a waste of a high damage mech. Plus they can't afford one anyways. I would go with cent, or a shadowhawk. You need to Learn how to brawl before you mess around with XL and LRM snipe builds.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

First, this should really go in the New Player forum, since it seems to be geared toward comprehensive mech ratings to help new pilots pick their early rides.

Second, you really should have multiple ratings. Power, Durability, Mobility.

Using your low-is-better rating system, the Shadow Hawk, for instance, would get something like this:

Power: 4/10
Durability: 3/10
Mobility: 2/10

I give it only a 4 on power since its weight and hardpoints means you can't punch in the same class as weapon carriers like Jagers and Stalkers, nor can you out-slug things like Victors and Atlases. Still, most Shawks can manage very respectible weapon payloads, so they're still rated pretty well.

3 on durability since, with proper use of your arms and torso twisting, you can absorb an unreal amount of damage and still keep fighting. It has some zombie potential (head and/or CT missile hardpoints on all variants), but even with an XL a really good pilot can take way more fire before going down than you might expect.

2 for mobility since the thing can run super fast if specced for it, and with JJs it's one of the most maneuverable rides in the game. It's pure joy to drive one, without the sluggishness or inertia of a larger mech and without the "leg yourself on every bump" aspect of lighter mechs.

You could probably set up aggregate scores for each mech (the Shawk would be 3 for me I think).

[Sandpit]

Guys, instead of telling the OP how to "improve" the list, why not just rate the mechs and help out players who might be looking for a new ride?

[LowSubmarino]

I'd say the easiest playstyles is a mix of lrm and laser builds with mechs like the stalker. Those builds don't require great piloting skills and even new players can dish out dmg with their lrms.

On the other hand, anybody with some shooter experience will find piloting a mech pretty easy as it is basically a slow motion shooter.

Light's and mediums or heavies designed for brawling require better battle awareness. The most rewarding gameplay experiences are in the middle of a brawl with something like the shadowhawk though in my opinion. Jumping over mechs firing left and right is a lot of fun.

More important than mech choice is gameplay though. I see so many ppl runnin ahead of team and getting killed in seconds. I've seen lights, mediums, heavies and assaults do that. You die so quickly that it doesnt matter what mech u pilot.

For somebody completly new I would suggest the stalker with lrms and some lasers. Tell them to always stay within the main group. That way they will not die until midgame and even in a brawl with their side losing they will last for a while.

After some experience with that - and heatmanagment, piloting, maps and terrain - I would tell them to try out the shadowhawk, jager or cataphract with more close range loadouts.

Is what I would suggest to a friend who's never played a mechwarrior game...

[RavensScar]

I'll comment on the mech's I have experience with:

Cicada - 8/10 sounds about right. I'd say your points probably cover it.

Blackjack - 6 or 7/10. Not very beginner friendly. The stock loadouts are pretty awful, and they suffer from being really quite fragile. Can be great if you're dedicated, but not a good mech to start with.

Hunchback - 3/10 again, I agree. I started in Hunchies, and still love 'em. Not the absolute easiest, but very beginner friendly and a great learning mech.

Catapult - 3/10, in my opinion. A friend I introduced to the game jumped into a Catapult, and was racking up 500-600 damage relatively quickly. LRMs are quite beginner friendly in PUG matches, and the Cat's aren't too difficult to build or pilot.

Cataphract - 6/10. They're great mechs, but I don't think they're at all beginner friendly. The stock loadouts are almost uniformly awful, and you do need to be pretty bold with good aim to make them work. My first mech was a 1X. I basic'd it, then sold it for a Hunchie.

Orion - 5/10. Much more durable with the hit-box changes, but suffer similar problems to the Cataphract. The stock builds aren't great, and you need to either have good aim, or be happy at close-quarters to do well. Slightly better than the 'Phract for the fact they can carry LRMs.

Highlander - 4/10. Assaults have a pretty steep learning curve, so I don't feel any of them deserve a 1/10. That being said, the 'Landers have good hardpoints, and good durability so they're a good one to learn on.

[Corbon Zackery]

Sandpit, on 28 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Guys, instead of telling the OP how to "improve" the list, why not just rate the mechs and help out players who might be looking for a new ride?

The list is flawed because its pointing noobs to Assault mechs. You don't put rookies in line busters.