269 replies to this topic

[VoltarDark]

Hello pilots !

Because in my book the ac20 is by far the best weapon in the game causing it to be too wide spread on the battlefield. (Just try a lance of full of dual ac20 mechs, giving 8 ac20 to see what it can do...)

2 of those beasts can cripple any mechs way too easily under 300m, better then anything else.

At 540m it's still do 10 dmg, the same as an ac10 at long range...It's way to good, for a short range weapon.(forget the «canon law» and think fun here.)

My remedy :

Ac20 : Long range at 180 m for 20 dmg and max range at 540m , add 1 shot by ammo /t so 8 instead of 7.

Now the ac10 have more usefulness and the game is more fun.

[Joseph Mallan]

AC20 was the most powerful weapon on TT too.

[FupDup]

The only change the AC/20 might need is to have their maximum range cut down to lower than 810 meters to indirectly help out the AC/10. That's about it.

[Bobdolemite]

AC20 is currently the largest caliber gun in the game, and its damage shows this (best/highest pinpoint damage)

I dont think anything else needs to be done to this gun, especially with its standard range, its already short enough that most mechs can just walk OOR of its full damage. Its ammo is woefully tonnage intensive and its heat is already the highest of any cannon type weapon.

I wont get into this again since there are numerous (dual ac20 is OP) threads but its squarely not OP IMO.

The only thing in my mind that is debatable is the fall off distance for damage, doing 10 damage at 540 m is pretty good, though if your taking shots at that range your damage will be low and you will be out of ammo in a flash (so as to it replacing AC10 usefulness, I dont see it unless you carry 10t of ammo)

[Mystere]

Is this another one of those "I got killed by XXX, please nerf XXX" threads?

I'm just asking.

Edited by Mystere, 26 November 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

AC20s are only too good because there is no radar to predict where mechs are running and because the range x3 addition on ACs allows the AC20s to actually do great damage out to twice their effective range. To show how stupid it is, an AC20 does 10 damage at 540m where as an AC10 does a little over 8 damage at that range.

[Sandpit]

VoltarDark, on 26 November 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Hello pilots !

Because in my book the ac20 is by far the best weapon in the game causing it to be too wide spread on the battlefield. (Just try a lance of full of dual ac20 mechs, giving 8 ac20 to see what it can do...)

2 of those beasts can cripple any mechs way too easily under 300m, better then anything else.

At 540m it's still do 10 dmg, the same as an ac10 at long range...It's way to good, for a short range weapon.(forget the «canon law» and think fun here.)

My remedy :

Ac20 : Long range at 180 m for 20 dmg and max range at 540m , add 1 shot by ammo /t so 8 instead of 7.

Now the ac10 have more usefulness and the game is more fun.

Except that hypothetical lance? is going to get rolled by ANY team that has ANY clue as to what they're doing.

Stay outside of 300m when you see them?

My remedy is to keep it for what it is. Big boombad damage at short range

I'm glad somebody finally got ther nerve to post on this btw

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 26 November 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

The only change the AC/20 might need is to have their maximum range cut down to lower than 810 meters to indirectly help out the AC/10. That's about it.

Trauglodyte, on 26 November 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

AC20s are only too good because there is no radar to predict where mechs are running and because the range x3 addition on ACs allows the AC20s to actually do great damage out to twice their effective range. To show how stupid it is, an AC20 does 10 damage at 540m where as an AC10 does a little over 8 damage at that range.

These are good logical ideas.

2 AC20 hurt as much as a single AC20 on TT. Break up convergence, and all the bellyaching will go away!

[Nubsternator]

Staying out of range would be possible if the maps were larger or if Mechs could move fast enough before you get wasted by the ac20. In theory, yea, being out of it's range is a good idea. In practice it's much harder. There are few opportunities to get away from someone safely.

[Trauglodyte]

By the way, the one reason why the AC20 is so often seen in this game and why it is so potent is because this game only works at two ranges: very far away with pin point damage (JJ cheese) or very close up (AC20s). The game doesn't do a great job of filling the medium range and, in a game where sawing off a single location is the most efficient and best method of winning, weapons like lasers and missiles pale in comparison. This just leads to what you're seeing the most: PPCs and ACs. The real irony is that people (and these are poor mech designers and/or lowe ELO players) are running mass amounts of AC2s thinking that they're good when, in truth, they're only good at maxing DPS (not something you want) and forcing people to twist and backoff. They're pin point suppression weapons.

[VoltarDark]

AC20 is far too common on the battlefield, It's make the game boring.

Check your profile to see how you fare with your dual ac20 mechs versus all other mechs you own and you should understand my point.

Equal success for all weapons !!!

[Joseph Mallan]

VoltarDark, on 26 November 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

AC20 is far too common on the battlefield, It's make the game boring.

Check your profile to see how you fare with your dual ac20 mechs versus all other mechs you own and you should understand my point.

Equal success for all weapons !!!

That is just a foolish notion. Dual AC 20 should make shorter work of the enemy than other weapon combos. It is after all 2 of the biggest guns in the game.

Also just imaging the whine as you get hammered by AC20 rounds every 1.5 seconds (the slowest RoF for ACs) and all the screen shake that would come with that stream of depleted uranium!

[Trauglodyte]

The ROF on ACs should probably be dropped down a bit along with some range adjustments (see the AC20). As it is, the AC2 and AC10 both do 4 DPS, the AC5 does slightly less, and the AC20 does 5 dps. They get this all while being low heat and pin point where as everything else in the game is spread based, sans the PPC. Even the Gauss Rifle doesn't achieve 4 DPS and it has a charge up timer.

[Sandpit]

Nubsternator, on 26 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Staying out of range would be possible if the maps were larger or if Mechs could move fast enough before you get wasted by the ac20. In theory, yea, being out of it's range is a good idea. In practice it's much harder. There are few opportunities to get away from someone safely.

You can't stay further than 500 meters away? That's typically the distance I'm at when in a furball.

[Alexandrix]

How awesome would it be if auto cannons fired a short burst of bullets every time you pulled the trigger?

*BBRRRRRTTT* 4 rounds fire - 5 damage each for the AC20

would solve a lot of problems,and be more fun than just lobbing one big slow *** round.That's just me tho.

ammo of course would be 1 trigger pull = 1 ammo count deducted (not 4 in the case of the ac20)

Edited by Alexandrix, 26 November 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Piney II]

VoltarDark, on 26 November 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Just try a lance of full of dual ac20 mechs, giving 8 ac20 to see what it can do

I drive a Boom Jager every now and then for fun and I can attest to the fact that it's not the almighty easy button "press the trigger for the win" machine some think it is. Staying alive is a huge concern - the Boom Jager is squishy and needs to be piloted VERY carefully. You need to work in fairly close to lay down the pain, and that requires planning to keep from getting killed. Alpha strikes generate LOTS of heat that requires cooldown. You're not carrying a bazzillion rounds of ammo, so you need to pick your shots carefully. If you get singled out from the mechs you're supporting and focus fired, you don't have the armor to brawl and you will go down quickly.

Want to counter a Boom Jager? It's easy. Stay outside of 300 meters, keep moving, and hammer those side torsos - chances are there's a XL engine in there just waiting for the chance to explode. Bring a friend or two to help you do this for faster results.

The AC40 build can be high reward, but the risks are commensurately high. They really are Glass Cannons.

[Gallowglas]

I'm going to completely disagree. The AC/20 seems perfectly fine. I'm all about calling out for a weapon to be tuned to bring it in line with other weapons, whether or not it's one I actively use. The AC/20 isn't being used at long range except by idiotic pilots. Why waste ammo that is so heavy and, thus, extremely limited for reduced damage? It's like using an LB10X at long range. Can you? Sure. Why the heck would you? Frankly, if you're firing your AC/20 at long range, come play against me. I want enemy pilots to waste their ammo in those situations.

The advantages the AC/10 has are improved rate of fire, higher ballistic speed, lower weight, more ammo, lower heat, and increased range at which it can do full damage. Yes, the AC/10 probably needs a bit more love to bring it in line overall, but can you honestly say that the AC/20 is more ubiquitous than the AC/2, AC/5 or the UAC/5? I'm willing to bet it's not. I'd also be willing to bet the damage per match per weapon is heavily in favor of the AC/5 and UAC/5.

Is the AC/20 a great close-in weapon? Sure. It should be. Is it a great long range weapon? No.

Edited by Gallowglas, 26 November 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[Gallowglas]

Trauglodyte, on 26 November 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

The ROF on ACs should probably be dropped down a bit along with some range adjustments (see the AC20). As it is, the AC2 and AC10 both do 4 DPS, the AC5 does slightly less, and the AC20 does 5 dps. They get this all while being low heat and pin point where as everything else in the game is spread based, sans the PPC. Even the Gauss Rifle doesn't achieve 4 DPS and it has a charge up timer.

I think you're probably comparing apples and oranges. The better number would be to compare damage per weapon per match. Sure, you can compare weapon damage per second at optimal range, but how much of the match is spent outside the AC/20 optimum range? A lot, I'd wager.

[DyDrimer]

There's a great post on here that break's down the damage AC's do. The AC20 is a strong scary weapon, but true to form with the AC break down my AC5 mechs do a lot more damage then ac20 does. I have started running a uac5/ac5 combo on my victor and it has brought it back from the dead for me. So i don't see were the ac20 is OP, even if you run an ac40, it seems to have to give up way to much just for that punch.

[Turist0AT]

For that tonnage and ammo count it better be that good!