38 replies to this topic

[Carrioncrows]

Gentleman's guide to using the UAC5

Edited by Carrioncrows, 28 November 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

I've had three jams after the first shot before in my illya I should not happen but it does, that's why I carry a trio of mlas just for such occasions.

The first double shot should be exempt and then you get the chance to jam.

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 November 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

RAT 7. Quality mouse don't jam son! Don't blame the gear, blame the operator!

And yeah, in this case, I am as sure as humanly possible neither human nor mechanical error are involved on this end of things. Other instances, well, this operator can make plenty of errors.

Also, not one bullet comes out. If it was a double-click, one shot would still happen. Hence...BUG.

[Bagheera]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I have actually encountered this too, though it seems to come in spurts. I would be OK, if after the second shot, I got a jam, even if It should only be about a 10% chance. But the whole first shot, jam, annoys me.

And this is why I stopped using ultras. Between jamming with no shot fired and jamming when only using the single-shot mode they're not worth the frustration. Jam chance is supposed to be only when double-tapped, iirc.

[Oppresor]

I use the UAC as my secondary weapon. I can normally get three rounds of before it jams; if I then go over to my primary 4 x ERLarge Lasers synced for a while then go back to the UAC it works again. The jamming is intermittent; I figure this is how PGI have set up the jamming mechanic.

Overall the UAC is a great weapon, its just not reliable so you need a backup. For me this comes in the form of a single Streak 2 Battery at close range and an LRM 15 Artemis Battery for mid to long range.

What would be nice is if they were to give us the UAC 20 that was in MW4.

[D04S02B04]

Carrioncrows, that is a great video explaining the selective use of the UAC5. However, I feel that in doing so, you are paying the cost of 2 extra tons for the fast fire capability which doesn't make sense. You are better off taking the AC5 which is lighter, marginally further range and use that 2 tons to get heatsinks or more ammo or more medium lasers to increase DPS.

I assume RNG = Random Number Generator.

As mentioned by others, computers are logical things. They are not capable to producing truly random numbers. To do so requires very expensive equipment and algorithms which are used for special purposes (e.g. casinos, lottery etc.)

[Corvus Antaka]

thats the uac5. ive had times ive managed to drop 70 rounds on dual uac and niether gun jammed, other times they both jam after the first shot. nature of the beast.

[CarpetShark]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 28 November 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

thats the uac5. ive had times ive managed to drop 70 rounds on dual uac and niether gun jammed, other times they both jam after the first shot. nature of the beast.

Lots of you keep saying this, but I think you're missing a very important point.

It's almost always jamming ON THE FIRST SHOT. Not an attempt to double-tap. The first single shot. So it doesn't fire at all. So it is a useless gun and all its ammo sits on my mech, waiting to explode.

This is apparently not supposed to happen. So, ticket submitted.

We'll see...

[Carrioncrows]

D04S02B04, on 28 November 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

Carrioncrows, that is a great video explaining the selective use of the UAC5. However, I feel that in doing so, you are paying the cost of 2 extra tons for the fast fire capability which doesn't make sense. You are better off taking the AC5 which is lighter, marginally further range and use that 2 tons to get heatsinks or more ammo or more medium lasers to increase DPS.

I assume RNG = Random Number Generator.

As mentioned by others, computers are logical things. They are not capable to producing truly random numbers. To do so requires very expensive equipment and algorithms which are used for special purposes (e.g. casinos, lottery etc.)

AC5 = 8 tons.
UAC5 = 9 tons.

I am paying 1 extra ton for the ability to occasionally Double Tap which as I stated in the video is the intent.

I don't use it like a chaingun, I don't Mash it down and hope for the best. I use it like an AC5, and occasionally when I want to put 10 damage into someone I do.

Sometimes I ride the tiger and do this 2-3 times back to back dealing twice the DPS of the a regular AC5 at the risk of jamming which is the whole point of the gun.

It's a risk based weapon, one that you can help minimize the risk with knowledge, patience, and a decent rhythm but you by no means eradicate it.

Yes the AC5 is a much safer bet for consistent damage and is my weapon of choice when it is grouped with other heavier class weapons.

But as a singular and primary weapon I prefer the UAC5, as i feel I can occasionally work small miracles to do burst damage with it, especially when I need it.

[Bagheera]

Carrioncrows, on 30 November 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

<only quoted to direct the question>

As someone who uses the UAC often, are you finding the same problems others are with the weapon jamming either with no shot fired or when a single round is fired?

Also (for anyone), is my memory correct on the mechanic? Pretty sure they are only supposed to check for a jam when double-tapped in TT, which I realize is only a starting point but I don't really think a gun that jams with no shot fired is in the spirit of the weapon.

Edited by Bagheera, 30 November 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[xCico]

Sometimes UAC5 jam without I fired a bullet(I clicked)

[Carrioncrows]

Bagheera, on 30 November 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

As someone who uses the UAC often, are you finding the same problems others are with the weapon jamming either with no shot fired or when a single round is fired?

Also (for anyone), is my memory correct on the mechanic? Pretty sure they are only supposed to check for a jam when double-tapped in TT, which I realize is only a starting point but I don't really think a gun that jams with no shot fired is in the spirit of the weapon.

The only time I find the UAC5 jams after the first shot is when I hold down the trigger or accidentally double click too fast and out of sync.

Let me pull this question and Answer from another thread over in Player help on how to use the UAC5.

----

Iron Harlequin, on 24 October 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

I swear my UAC always jams on the first shot....

Because you are holding down the trigger.

I have no proof of this besides my own observations but this is the way the UAC5 seems to work.

When you hold down the button the game checks to see if the gun jams 4 times every second.

so
1. Fire's first shot
2. checks to see if weapon jams
3. checks to see if weapon jams - Double rate shot fires
4. checks to see if weapon jams
5. checks to see if weapon jams
6. Weapon is cycled and next shot is fired.

So by holding down the trigger you are needlessly rolling on the RNG table more times than is necessary where as if you "Tap

1. Fires shot and you let go of key.
2. Zero chance to jam
3. checks to see if weapons jams - Double Rate shot is fired
4. Zero chance to jam
5. Zero chance to jam
6. Weapon is cycled and next shot is fired.

So by using the Tap method you are really only rolling a 20% chance to jam, Once. But if you hold it down there are 4 different times that it has a potential to jam on you.

Like I said I have no proof but the my observations seem to correlate to this theory.

[Bishop Steiner]

Carrioncrows, on 30 November 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

The only time I find the UAC5 jams after the first shot is when I hold down the trigger or accidentally double click too fast and out of sync.

Let me pull this question and Answer from another thread over in Player help on how to use the UAC5.

----



Because you are holding down the trigger.

I have no proof of this besides my own observations but this is the way the UAC5 seems to work.

When you hold down the button the game checks to see if the gun jams 4 times every second.

so
1. Fire's first shot
2. checks to see if weapon jams
3. checks to see if weapon jams - Double rate shot fires
4. checks to see if weapon jams
5. checks to see if weapon jams
6. Weapon is cycled and next shot is fired.

So by holding down the trigger you are needlessly rolling on the RNG table more times than is necessary where as if you "Tap

1. Fires shot and you let go of key.
2. Zero chance to jam
3. checks to see if weapons jams - Double Rate shot is fired
4. Zero chance to jam
5. Zero chance to jam
6. Weapon is cycled and next shot is fired.

So by using the Tap method you are really only rolling a 20% chance to jam, Once. But if you hold it down there are 4 different times that it has a potential to jam on you.

Like I said I have no proof but the my observations seem to correlate to this theory.

I'm a tapper, and I have had it jam on the first shot. That said, between ping and such, i wonder if our control impùlses always translate perfectly, like you have a 250 ping, tap, but because of all the delay and stuff in between it reads it server side as a longer stroke?

[TercieI]

Bishop Steiner, on 30 November 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

I'm a tapper, and I have had it jam on the first shot. That said, between ping and such, i wonder if our control impùlses always translate perfectly, like you have a 250 ping, tap, but because of all the delay and stuff in between it reads it server side as a longer stroke?

I wonder similarly, but I've taken very intentional single taps (at fleeting targets) and gotten no shot.

[D04S02B04]

Confirmation bias. Tapping does not change the outcome. The problem you're encountering is simply because a Random Number Generator is never truly random because of computers being a logical device and for RNG to approach near "true" random behaviour requires high end processors and complex algorithms.

Tested in testing grounds.

[Bagheera]

@Carrion - It's an interesting theory, but I have a comment. When I 'click and release,' intending only to fire one round, the weapon has jammed both after firing that shot and without the shot ever being fired. I understand checking for a jam chance before and after the "bonus round" is fired, but if I release the mouse button and do not attempt to fire the bonus round, it really should not be rolling that roll. I get that holding down the button could possibly increase the number of rolls (though really, it shouldn't), but "click and release" single shot should be at least somewhat reliable.

@D04S ...

Testing grounds is worthless for anything except setting weapon groups and exploring maps. Almost nothing there operates as it does in a live match, from damage done to hit detection to pretty much anything else. It's possible the UAC functions the same in TG, but since TG is so woefully unreliable no one uses it for serious testing.

I'm not knocking your theory, it's also solid, but no one really uses TG for hard data.

Bishop may be onto something, which could explain some of the inconsistency I experience. Depending on who is streaming what in my building I can get some pretty inconsistent pings during "prime time."

[Carrioncrows]

I can't speak for others, only my own observations.

But every single time I've had the UAC5 jam on the first shot it was because I lingered too long on the button holding it down or was indecisive pushing the button (double clicking)

*shrug*

I can only tell ya the above method is what I have found to get the maximum potential out of my UAC5.

[Bagheera]

Fair enough.

In all honesty, the "jam with no shot fired" (on single shot click) is the one that concerns me the most. I should probably just use one again for a while and see what results I get - admittedly I'm working off observations from several patches ago.

Good thing I have a shiny new SHD for testing.

Edited by Bagheera, 01 December 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[Galaxy Drifter]

Sandpit, on 27 November 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

Am I missing something here............?

If you think it's glitching then submit a ticket. That's the best way to bring attention to it and get them to look into it if they're not aware of it. if it's not a glitch and it's the RNG doing what RNGs do at times then we should continue talking about alternative mechanics for it.

It's like I'm trying to make suggestions and it's like a brick wall. I don't know if it's a glitch or the RNG. We can't know for sure if it's a glitch or if it's working as intended with the RNG. Tickets get things looked at, apathy and cynicism aside, and if it isn't a known issue they find out. Tickets also indicate bigger issues when more players submit a ticket on the same problem.....

If it's a glitch and 5 people submit a ticket on it, the DEVs could look at that and say "Well it's an issue but it's not affecting very many players so it's not a real high priority"
The flipside to that is is 500 people submit a ticket on it, the DEVs could look at that and say "We've got a big issue here so we need to move this up on the priority list"

I get the cynicism but at some point you have to either accept that you can help fix things by taking a few seconds to submit a ticket or just groan about it on the forums. Seriously guys, if you really want to help improve the game that's a great place to start even if you don't get the answer you're wanting

It has been about a year since I first summited a ticket on this issue, so don't hold your breath.

The U/AC SHOULD only have a chance to jam when you fire a second shot within one cooldown (or double tap as some put it.). If you only fire one shot per cooldown, the chance to jam should not apply.

This is the way it use to work (but then it was permanently jammed unless you did the secret handshake thing to manually unjam it)

Then they introduced new code about a year ago. It sort of works ok, but the chance to jam applies to every shot, not just the double shot.

It needs to be fixed, but they have been aware of it for a long time, so I have doubts it ever will.