50 replies to this topic

[New Day]

Piipu, on 28 November 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

There was nothing wrong with collisions after they fixed the Dragon having 600 tons of mass in the collision calculations. I don't know why people keep bringing that up as the reason they were removed. They were removed because people who were on the ground kept teleporting around and you couldn't hit them since we didn't have HSR in those times.

And that was easily solvable by waiting ~2s after they stopped teleporting. Then you had another ~1/2s before they started moving.

stjobe, on 28 November 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

How can you kill him at 500m when his team-mate the designated hitter just bowled you over? Team work isn't just for the one team, you know.

And if you think it was only Dragons, think again. A Jenner at full tilt could knock down an Atlas by jumping just before the collision. Good luck trying to stay away from a Jenner in your Atlas.

Well kinetic energy is velocity squared times mass(divided by 2)...

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 28 November 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[LordBraxton]

stjobe, on 28 November 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

How can you kill him at 500m when his team-mate the designated hitter just bowled you over? Team work isn't just for the one team, you know.

And if you think it was only Dragons, think again. A Jenner at full tilt could knock down an Atlas by jumping just before the collision. Good luck trying to stay away from a Jenner in your Atlas.

Ugh, cmon man, I wasn't picturing a 12v1 when I wrote my post

The idea is, if your team has good positioning, you'll have eyes on that 'designated hitter' long before he is bowling anyone over, and when he shows his big fat probably dragon nose, he is ******.

Even if he tackles one mech, he'll be taking fire from a lance or more of yours.

A whole team of suicide rushing bowlers can be scary, but if you have good recon and can see their team composition early enough, you can find a position that creates the longest engagement range possible. Even 300m of decent killing ground can ruin an advance

So whatever team has superior positioning will end up with less mechs on their *** and more mechs focus firing targets.

Also, Im not arguing for collisions to be the same, they were an important feature that needed fixing and balancing, not removal. So jenners should not be tackling any assaults, they should break their round little heads on atlas kneecaps and die.

Edited by LordBraxton, 28 November 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[FupDup]

LordBraxton, on 28 November 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

---
If you get caught alone by a heavier mech, and they knock you on your ***, you deserve a helpless death.

---

Dont want to get stun locked? Dont get in a fist fight with a heavier mech, kill him at 500meters

Because we definitely need more reasons to pilot heavies and assaults.

Edited by FupDup, 28 November 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Adiuvo]

LordBraxton, on 28 November 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Dont want to get stun locked? Dont get in a fist fight with a heavier mech, kill him at 500meters

Hm I wonder what class you play...

[Bagheera]

stjobe, on 28 November 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

How can you kill him at 500m when his team-mate the designated hitter just bowled you over? Team work isn't just for the one team, you know.

And if you think it was only Dragons, think again. A Jenner at full tilt could knock down an Atlas by jumping just before the collision. Good luck trying to stay away from a Jenner in your Atlas.

There were hordes of problems with the old KD system, but that still doesn't obviate the need for actual calculated collision damage.

The jenner in your scenario would have been functionally destroyed from that collision using TT damage scales. Frankly, if charging damage was done properly in the first place "bowling" would have been too suicidal to be spammed.

Edited by Bagheera, 28 November 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[TercieI]

Greyboots, on 28 November 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

The last thing we need is low ping players being not only able to pin high ping players and make them rubber band but also doing damage as the high ping players bounce around under them.

Netcode needs to be much better first.

^This. It's problematic when mechs get too close now in some situations, Collisions would encourage it. Until these issues are fixed, collisions are a non-starter.

[verybad]

Piipu, on 28 November 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

There was nothing wrong with collisions after they fixed the Dragon having 600 tons of mass in the collision calculations. I don't know why people keep bringing that up as the reason they were removed. They were removed because people who were on the ground kept teleporting around and you couldn't hit them since we didn't have HSR in those times.

BS.

They could still lead to perpetual knockdowns, even from your own team. I saw some of the most ridiculous bugs in the collisions package that I've ever seen in ANY game.

The game is much better without them, and while WORKING ones might be fun, a bugged system is far worse than not having them at all.

[stjobe]

Bagheera, on 28 November 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

There were hordes of problems with the old KD system, but that still doesn't obviate the need for actual calculated collision damage.

The jenner in your scenario would have been functionally destroyed from that collision using TT damage scales. Frankly, if charging damage was done properly in the first place "bowling" would have been too suicidal to be spammed.

Using TT rules, a Jenner charging an atlas at 150kph (15 hexes moved) would do 3*15=45 damage to the Atlas and takes 10 damage itself. Not "functionally destroyed" by any means, not even with the TT armour values.

I understand that the bus drivers of MWO (slow heavy/assault pilots) find it irritating that fast lights are hard to hit and get up close where they're even harder to track, but you shouldn't be calling for collisions, you should be calling for physical attacks.

A kick from an Atlas did 20 damage to the legs of whatever it kicked, and a punch did 10 damage. Nothing really says "keep your distance" like a swift, AC/20 damage level kick to the legs.

[Murphy7]

Piipu, on 28 November 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

There was nothing wrong with collisions after they fixed the Dragon having 600 tons of mass in the collision calculations. I don't know why people keep bringing that up as the reason they were removed. They were removed because people who were on the ground kept teleporting around and you couldn't hit them since we didn't have HSR in those times.

It was also removed because the recovery mechanic forced you into 3pv (well before that was a regular option, evil portent?) and you could not control your mech at all, nothing could be done to defend yourself. This became a tactic, MWO had a stun-lock mechanism, essentially. It could be abused, and it was.

That doesn't negate the fact we need collisions back in the game, it just needs to be handled a bit differently. I'm hoping for quicker recovery, and retention of your native POV settings myself. An anti-grieving measure such as knockdown immunity for a few seconds after recovery would be clunky, but better than not having collisions at all.

[LordBraxton]

Adiuvo, on 28 November 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Hm I wonder what class you play...

Do Shadowhawks count as a class?

[Coralld]

To be honest, I wound't mind if they brought knockdown back as long as melee is in and only heavy melee weapons could knock down mechs which would give them a big advantage for the weight needed to mount them.

[Tekadept]

Honestly I don't think collisions will ever be back. Call of duty and Bf3 doesn't have them.

[Murphy7]

Tekadept, on 28 November 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Honestly I don't think collisions will ever be back. Call of duty and Bf3 doesn't have them.

Oh, well played.

[Captain Stiffy]

I agree that we need collisions but they need to be HORRENDOUSLY FING BAD for both mechs involved. This is the only thing that will prevent abuse.

Charging or DFA absolutely ARE intended to be a last-ditch tactic... having it do mass damage to both parties puts it squarely in that ballpark.

Having it do terrifying damage also makes it useful and by proxy will cause players to avoid collision at all costs except when they really need it.

[Mavairo]

The amount of face hugging, ramming and the like has risen steadily since they dropped collisions.
Really they should bring them at least partially back.

[Redshift2k5]

The big problems were:

• poor detection (get nicked by an elbow, full force)
  
• crazy teleporting when standing leading to wonky hit detection and visual bugs

AFAIK neither has been fixed yet. Dragon bowling wasn't the problem.

[Dirk Le Daring]

I'm just gonna add my vote to bringing back collisions.

I do understand that it has to be refined, but I also wonder how it will be received by those who never experienced it. It could be a (insert expletive here) of a situation. (just thinking about the people who need a crutch)

I liked the collisions, even when I was being bowled by a dragon. It made you play better, smarter, and I think helped to induce a fair bit of situational awareness.

Bottom line, we have to wait.

Anyway, I agree with you Mr 144.

[Diego Angelus]

I agree that we need collisions but i don't know if they can deliver I mean we still hit invisible walls and get stuck and other stupid things imagine what kind of problems we might face if they don't implement collisions perfectly. So I hope devs utilize test servers for some time before they implement it that is if ever get to have collision

[Dymlos2003]

I miss the old lasersounds... I want them back

[Livewyr]

Shameless plug, but appropriate!

http://mwomercs.com/...61#entry2845261