95 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

To reassure you a bit more...
http://www.pugetsyst...erformance-518/

and (sorry... spanish, but it was the first video I found with side by side comparison)

[Sybreed]

Egomane, on 29 November 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

To reassure you a bit more...
http://www.pugetsyst...erformance-518/

and (sorry... spanish, but it was the first video I found with side by side comparison)

Thx for the article, I tried searching for such info myself, but failed.

As for the CPU, I'll contact a local retailer that also installs fans when you buy one, it should do the trick for the next few years.

Edited by Sybreed, 29 November 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[Goose]

CryEngine likes more then four cores: It likes HT on quadcores, it likes six real cores. Have you notice how it assigns jobs to cores using numbers zero through five?

What it doesn't like is your GHz, but I'm not a go-to source on overclocking.

What is intersting is how you went from Fermi to Kepler and got an improvement under DX9: Support had me go back to my GTX580 this one time, 'cause "Keplers don't do DX9." I saw no change, but I was still on my i7-920.

Don't do moar then sort out your CPU cooler, consider overclocking, but mostly wait for the DX11 version of the game, unpark your cores, and learn to tweak CryEngine.

http://forums.guru3d...ighlight=winsat

http://www.tweakguid.../Crysis3_8.html

http://forums.guru3d...ad.php?t=379506

So sayth the i7-990X/ GTX680 Problem Childe …


And, just 'cause I'm hot at the commentary in this thread:

Quote

http://www.anandtech...mber-2013/10]If you were lucky/rich enough to jump on the extreme end of Westmere (i7-980, i7-980X or i7-990X), then having that hex-core system will keep a small advantage in multithreaded tests over the top performing Haswell solution (PovRay on 4770K = 1612.68, on i7-990X = 1636.40). The IPC advantage that Haswell comes with shows itself to be useful in most multi-GPU setups, whereas for our other single and some dual GPU benchmarks the performance difference between the two processors is almost negligible. When you hit three-way GPU configurations, it is all about the lane counts.

Quote

http://www.tomshardw...1-8.html]Crysis 3 appears to be one of those rare games optimized for multi-core processors, as evidenced by the six-core Sandy Bridge-E's strong result compared to quad-core Ivy Bridge.

"gigaherz" is the phrase: Derp

Edited by Goose, 29 November 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Egomane]

How do I say it best?

Crysis 3 is Crysis 3 and MWO is MWO. Just because both are based on the same engine, they don't have to perform the same or even use the same resources the same way. You can't just say: "Because Crysis 3 does it, all Cryengine games do it."


Just because an engine support multithreading with more then four threads, doesn't mean that it will always be used.

I'll use one of the always dreaded car analogies (it will be a bad one, I promise*)...
- You buy a Ferrari with a 490 PS Turbo engine. The car can make 200 mph with that engine. The engine only has to put the power onto one axis.
- Now you take the engine and put it into a Dumptruck. Suddenly the best it can do is 80 mph (or even less) and instead of one axis it has to power three.
It's the same engine but it performs completly different and distributes that power differently.
*(for that example I simply looked for automobiles with similar power to the engine)

It's the same in programming. Instead of axis you have threads. Ok... I promised it is a bad analogy. You get more power on one axis if the car engine doesn't have to distribute it to others. It's the other way around with threads. But it is still up to the programmer how many threads his programm will be able to use.

[Goose]

But: It's the way to bet.





So that's two heavily loaded, one at about half load, two more in the double digits, then we've got Core 0 - Thread 1, whom finds reasons to poke up thought the 30s in the middle of games; Feel free to ignore the guys down at 6% or less …

More importantly: I've gotten all kinds of mileage out of the TweakGuide for Crysis 3, so I'm guessing it's relevant and accurate.

As an aside: Ferraris' aren't known for their torque, so even though they will have ~twice the horsepower, it's all RPM; Whereas the Caterpillar in your dump truck has the torque needed, at the low RPMs necessary, to get a load moving in the first place.
Moar interesting might be the Diesels' Audi has been running at LeMans …

Edited by Goose, 19 December 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Sybreed]

Goose, on 29 November 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

CryEngine likes more then four cores: It likes HT on quadcores, it likes six real cores. Have you notice how it assigns jobs to cores using numbers zero through five?

What it doesn't like is your MHz, but I'm not a go-to source on overclocking.

What is intersting is how you went from Fermi to Kepler and got an improvement under DX9: Support had me go back to my GTX580 this one time, 'cause "Keplers don't do DX9." I saw no change, but I was still on my i7-920.

Don't do moar then sort out your CPU cooler, consider overclocking, but mostly wait for the DX11 version of the game, unpark your cores, and learn to tweak CryEngine.

http://forums.guru3d...ighlight=winsat

http://www.tweakguid.../Crysis3_8.html

http://forums.guru3d...ad.php?t=379506

So sayth the i7-990X/ GTX680 Problem Childe …


And, just 'cause I'm hot at the commentary in this thread:

I'm too much of a neophyte too understand all this

I got the basics, but when you say "tweak cryengine" I'm like whaaaaaaaaaaaat. I got no idea how to do that and I'm mostly afraid of breaking stuff.

And when you say the game doesn't like my Mhz... what does this mean exactly?

And going from fermi to kepler... huh?

You're way more informed on this than me

[Biglead]

Sybreed, on 29 November 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I'm too much of a neophyte too understand all this

I got the basics, but when you say "tweak cryengine" I'm like whaaaaaaaaaaaat. I got no idea how to do that and I'm mostly afraid of breaking stuff.

And when you say the game doesn't like my Mhz... what does this mean exactly?

And going from fermi to kepler... huh?

You're way more informed on this than me

This is what he meant. http://mwomercs.com/...-core-machines/

One quad core user tried it and claimed close to or around a 10fps jump.

Edited by Biglead, 29 November 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Goose]

Hoss: You need to be reading up on them thar links. ;-)

Your GTX580 is from the Fermi family, and the 780 is from the Keplers.

It is an open question as to weather any stock CPU has enough gigahertz to make CryEngine 3 happy. MW:O, which seems have the same number of … Pixels? Data points? … per yard as the actual Crysis 3, a pedestrian scale game, and so has that a much heavier load. Your i7-980 ( https://en.wikipedia....22_.2832_nm.29 ) should be up to 3.46GHz while the game is running, assuming your cooling is worth a turkey. But "3.46GHz" isn't enough for a poorly tweaked copy of MW:O.

So now things are up to you: Tweaking can be arcain and time-consuming to figure out, whereas Overclocking is a little simpler to google, but the underlying risk of frying something you can't afford to replace shouldn't be ignored …




"gigaherz" is the phrase: Derp

Edited by Goose, 14 December 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Grrzoot]

so i am going to jump in on this here. I too have an older udp58 systen with a core i7-920. It is almost 5 years old now and i haven't had to upgrade the board for any game including this one. I did recently upgrade my vid card from a 470 to a 660ti and saw a marked improvement in frames lowend is never less than 35 and under the heaviest load for this game i stabilize at 50 fps.

The main difference is i overclock my half decade old cpu, the i7 series love to overclock. stock on my 920 is 2.2ghz but i run in constantly at 3.6ghz with 1600 ram. It will run at 4.1 ghz stable on air but it does get up into the 80's

currently i use this cpu cooler http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835118003

under full gpu/cpu load my cpu never gets about 48 degrees celsius and its on air. if you can put a good cooler on that cpu you can crank it up bigtime and you will see a huge improvement over stock.

[MavRCK]

^^ Listen to what Goose has to say. It's your CPU at the moment. Cryengine3 is just problematic - for anyone that uses it.

[Durant Carlyle]

When he said the game doesn't like your MHz, he meant your CPU doesn't go high enough on the MHz/GHz scale.

MW:O currently has a sweet spot at 4 physical cores.

Once you have four cores, MW:O rewards CPU speed (MHz/GHz) more than it does extra cores.

As I explained in another thread, a 3.0GHz Xeon with 16 cores would perform worse than a 3.4GHz i5 with 4 cores simply because of the MHz/GHz difference.

You need to get your CPU up to 4.0GHz or higher to get that monster of a GPU performing to its full potential in MW:O.

[Goose]

Grrzoot, on 29 November 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

… stock on my 920 is 2.2ghz but i run in constantly at 3.6ghz with 1600 ram.

Pardon me for asking, but my i7-920 was listed as 2.66GHz, and spent most of it's time at 2.8GHz without me doing anything …

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I am always amazed at how daft people are to spend money on a new parts thinking it will solve the issues. Research and ask questions, CPU is the bottleneck and poor optimization in concert with Cryengine being utter {Scrap} to work with. You just blew a stack o money on something you didn't need to buy. Brilliant, I hope you've learned a lesson and in the future will consult others before you throw money at the problems.

[Egomane]

Werewolf486, on 29 November 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

I am always amazed at how daft people are to spend money on a new parts thinking it will solve the issues. Research and ask questions, CPU is the bottleneck and poor optimization in concert with Cryengine being utter {Scrap} to work with. You just blew a stack o money on something you didn't need to buy. Brilliant, I hope you've learned a lesson and in the future will consult others before you throw money at the problems.

No need to be rude! The card is perfectly fine for other games. As I read it, Sybreed didn't get the card to fix his MWO problems. He only expected it to perform better.

[Grrzoot]

Goose, on 29 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Pardon me for asking, but my i7-920 was listed as 2.66GHz, and spent most of it's time at 2.8GHz without me doing anything …

ok maybe it was 2.66 it's been alot of years, i just remember that i got the D0 step that had the unlocked mulitiplier

i used to run it over 4 with watercooling but that turned to be more of a pita than it was worth

Edited by Grrzoot, 29 November 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[Sybreed]

Werewolf486, on 29 November 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

I am always amazed at how daft people are to spend money on a new parts thinking it will solve the issues. Research and ask questions, CPU is the bottleneck and poor optimization in concert with Cryengine being utter {Scrap} to work with. You just blew a stack o money on something you didn't need to buy. Brilliant, I hope you've learned a lesson and in the future will consult others before you throw money at the problems.

hmm let me check:

I can now run Rome 2 Total War at max settings
I can now run Company of Heroes 2 at max settings
I can now run Star Citizen at max settings (although the real test will be in dogfights and etc)

Of the dozens of games that will benefit from this upgrade in the future, MWO is likely to be the only one who will not and well, MWO is about 10% or less of my "gaming time" nowadays (although this can change with new patches). So yeah, it's not a waste of money.

And what was I supposed to upgrade, if not build a completely new computer? It would have cost me around 2k (we're in Canada ) and my CPU still has 2 cores that aren't even used. The best thing I can do in a near future (say, 2 years or 3 years from now) is to build a new computer THEN and keep my current 780 GTX TI to go SLI with another one, which will probably be a pretty beastly setup.

edit: Finally, like Egomane said, I never had issues with MWO but with other newer games, issues which are now solved. I just expected MWO to also benefit from this upgrade.

Edited by Sybreed, 29 November 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[Flapdrol]

i7 980's usually clock really well because they're 32nm parts instead of 45nm like 920.

Overclocking the chip will increase performance in all titles that don't scale well to 3+ cores, like the Arma series, total war series, mechwarrior online, etc.

Actually only battlefield and crysis 3 scale well, usually games do so little with the cpu it's no problem, but in arma, total war and mechwarrior it's very easy to be cpu limited.

[Sybreed]

Flapdrol, on 29 November 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

i7 980's usually clock really well because they're 32nm parts instead of 45nm like 920.

Overclocking the chip will increase performance in all titles that don't scale well to 3+ cores, like the Arma series, total war series, mechwarrior online, etc.

Actually only battlefield and crysis 3 scale well, usually games do so little with the cpu it's no problem, but in arma, total war and mechwarrior it's very easy to be cpu limited.

that's what I was thinking as well. After Christmas I'll shop around and get a better cooling unit. I got a question for the knowledgeable people... are air coolers good enough to overclock? Or should I go water pump? (had a bad experience with water coolers...)

[Egomane]

There are some air cooler that are close in performance to the closed loop watercoolers. Some of them are massive, so you need to make sure that they fit into your case.

I listed two very good ones in my earlier post on page one and if you want me to, I can name some more. I'm using the be quiet! myself and I am very much satisfied with it, but it could be hard to obtain in north america, because they only recently started to expand to that market.

Edited by Egomane, 29 November 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[Sybreed]

Egomane, on 29 November 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

There are some air cooler that are close in performance to the closed loop watercoolers. Some of them are massive, so you need to make sure that they fit into your case.

I listed two very good ones in my earlier post on page one and if you want me to, I can name some more. I'm using the be quiet! myself and I am very much satisfied with it, but it could be hard to obtain in north america, because they only recently started to expand to that market.

aright, I took those in note. I have a pretty huge case, so I'm not really afraid of the size of the fan