127 replies to this topic

[Scratx]

(in between the Kekekeke~ )

If you want an alternate build for the Cicada 3C that uses those ballistics.... Try the following.

XL100.
3 AC2.
5 tons of ammo.
Full armor.
Fill the rest of the tonnage with heat sinks.

Enjoy the mobile turret. Don't forget advanced zoom module.


(Yes, that's my Trollcada, and it actually pwns face... now and then)

[Coralld]

I think before we do to much to buff MGs we need to see how well they do with having their spread reduced, because once you get through an enemies armor is when MGs work their magic as 3 or 4 MGs will shred internals in no time. The problem is applying that damage effectively with out having half of your rounds spraying all over the enemy.

Edited by Coralld, 01 December 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[FupDup]

This issue should just be solved with weapon manufacturers when CW comes around. Let PGI keep the Coventry Light Autogun as their dumbass crit-seeking experiment-fantasy, and give us the Gatling Gun 20mm for no critical hits whatsoever in exchange for pure anti-armor damage.

[stjobe]

Thorqemada, on 01 December 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

"Two things will always keep the MG sub-par:
* Constant-fire mechanic
* Projectile spread"

MGs are "Hitscan" according to the Devs - that means they work like Lasers and the visual are fluff, you can perfectly mix them with Lasers.
Simply aim directly at your target and ignore the delay of the bulletstream!

That does not in any way change the fact that they're still continuous-fire and have spread.

Thorqemada, on 01 December 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

PS: "Quotes" no longer work for me - what is up with that?

Get a better browser™. IE 10 sucks.

[FupDup]

Holy {Scrap}, where did 16 people suddenly come from and vote to nerf MGs? It was just at only 1 vote to nerf only a few minutes ago...

Edited by FupDup, 01 December 2013 - 08:29 AM.

[PappySmurf]

NO! NO! NO WAY!!!!!! We already had the days of OP machinegun lights and I never want to see them return. Leave the machineguns just like they are. If you want machine gun wars go play Hawken

[Nryrony]

MGs are just fine, the dps is right on the spot, possibly even a tiny bit too good.

You simply have to consider tonnage, ammo consumption and especially heat if you compare it, its only draw back is its range/spread.

Edited by Nryrony, 01 December 2013 - 08:39 AM.

[stjobe]

PappySmurf, on 01 December 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

NO! NO! NO WAY!!!!!! We already had the days of OP machinegun lights and I never want to see them return.

When on earth was this fantasy time you speak of?

It must have been somewhere before August last year, because from when I joined until now the MG has never even been close to OP. For the longest time it did 0.4 DPS and had no extra crit chance or anything; just straight up 0.4 DPS.

[Thorqemada]

I use IE11 and every Browser sucks...

Spread is what prevents MGs from being OP and PGI should take a lesson from it!

PS: And come on Guys - who has faked Accounts here to nerf a not OP weapon even more and sabbotage MWO again?

Edited by Thorqemada, 01 December 2013 - 08:44 AM.

[Diego Angelus]

Victor Morson, on 01 December 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

But by that same token, 6 MGs are NOWHERE NEAR as good as 6 Small Lasers, even when you can mount them. Not even in the same league.



No, he is right, MGs are awful and "kicking ***" with them is kind of a relative joke.

I guess you never saw jag with 6 MGs kick ***

[BlackIronTarkus]

MGS ARE EFFECTIVE AGAINST INTERNAL AND GENERATE NO HEAT, USE THEM CONSTANTLY IN A BRAWL, 2000 ammo per ton is more than enough for 2 mgs, 4000 for 4 mgs.

There are perfect where they are.

I use them a lot.

Edited by BlackIronTarkus, 01 December 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[clanwolf3050]

I think MGs are good where they are. Once Armor is gone, or a section open that's when its MGs time ti shine. I have had many of my weapons destroyed by MGs. To be honest I get nervous when I see MGs near me when I have important 'mech sections with no armor.

[Diego Angelus]

clanwolf3050, on 01 December 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

I think MGs are good where they are. Once Armor is gone, or a section open that's when its MGs time ti shine. I have had many of my weapons destroyed by MGs. To be honest I get nervous when I see MGs near me when I have important 'mech sections with no armor.

Yeah MGs are terror when you see your back armor is red and spiders is there shooting at you I usually freak out and start to do strange manoeuvres.

[Nick Makiaveli]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 December 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

I think the constant stream of bullets is what is hampering it most.

I'd tweak it into 1 second long bursts followed by a 1 second cooldown or something like that. You might actually be able (or need to) lower the DPS and it would still be more viable, since it finally gives the player a chance to torso twist without losing damage output.

Especially since there's no way to stop shooting and torso twist right before the enemy's guns recharge....

[Bront]

Machine guns are fine.

Pros:
No heat
Light Weight
High DPS per weight
Point and shoot damage
Do extra damage on internals

Cons:
Short range
Need to be fired constantly to get full DPS Effect


They're fine. They're in a good spot, and infinately more useful than they are in TT. Though they could stand an ammo boost given the high rate of fire.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thorqemada, on 01 December 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

"Two things will always keep the MG sub-par:
* Constant-fire mechanic
* Projectile spread"

MGs are "Hitscan" according to the Devs - that means they work like Lasers and the visual are fluff, you can perfectly mix them with Lasers.
Simply aim directly at your target and ignore the delay of the bulletstream!

PS: "Quotes" no longer work for me - what is up with that?

I am not sure what your reply has to do with what the posters said. Yes, they are hit-scan, but the projectiles spread despite being hit-scan, and you need to fire them constantly to deliver your DPS. With a Small Laser, you need to hold it on target for less than a second, and then you have about 2 seconds or so to torso-twist or get in a better position before you need to fire again.

[Nick Makiaveli]

MustrumRidcully, on 01 December 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

I am not sure what your reply has to do with what the posters said. Yes, they are hit-scan, but the projectiles spread despite being hit-scan, and you need to fire them constantly to deliver your DPS. With a Small Laser, you need to hold it on target for less than a second, and then you have about 2 seconds or so to torso-twist or get in a better position before you need to fire again.

Hit-scan means if they contact any part of the target then they hit. and normally this means the damage is applied over the whole target or randomly to a location.

Secondly, once again, what's stopping you from using them like a SL? HIt the target for a second, then TT to avoid incoming fire. Then simply open up again. MGs are not meant to be a primary weapon system, so use them as an auxiliary weapon and they work great. I often team them up with MLs even though it often means I am wasting ammo, but it's sweet when I get a MG kill out of the blue with them!

[stjobe]

Nick Makiaveli, on 01 December 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Hit-scan means if they contact any part of the target then they hit. and normally this means the damage is applied over the whole target or randomly to a location.

That is not what hitscan means, there's no "whole target" or "random location" to it - it just means that the effect is immediate and not following a slower than instant projectile.

Nick Makiaveli, on 01 December 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Secondly, once again, what's stopping you from using them like a SL? HIt the target for a second, then TT to avoid incoming fire. Then simply open up again.

With a SL, you can be on-target for 0.75 seconds and then do whatever you want for 2.25 seconds without losing DPS. If you do the same with a MG, the effective DPS becomes 0.25 - or a quarter of the SL's DPS.

So I guess that's what's stopping people - a knowledge of the game mechanics.

Nick Makiaveli, on 01 December 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

MGs are not meant to be a primary weapon system, so use them as an auxiliary weapon and they work great. I often team them up with MLs even though it often means I am wasting ammo, but it's sweet when I get a MG kill out of the blue with them!

And out of the blue is just about the only kind of MG kill you'll get - between the continuous-fire mechanic and the spread, the weapon has nothing near its listed DPS.

Edited by stjobe, 01 December 2013 - 01:40 PM.

[qki]

Sorry OP, I'm gonna have to call bullcrap on this.

MGs are fine - in fact, after taking a long break, I find them to be really good - a bit too good maybe.

I've killed cats and other heavies with it, no problem - just don't expect it to tear up a brand-spanking-new mech, but once the internals are exposed, you can tear them a new one. And having to keep the stream of bullets on target is fine, since making it a burst weapon, would turn it into another boom and zoom gun, and that's just too much.


And all this comes from an avid MG user, so don't you go accusing me of crying because I get killed by MGs too often. The machine gun is fine as it is, and a nice option for mechs with 2+ ballistic slots and a little free tonnage (2t per two MGs) - just fine for when you can't take an AC20, and have too few hardpoints for a laser boat.

[stjobe]

qki, on 01 December 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

just don't expect it to tear up a brand-spanking-new mech, but once the internals are exposed, you can tear them a new one.

The difference is 1 DPS.

MGs do
1 DPS to armour
2 DPS to internal structure, and
somewhere around 7 DPS to internal components (but that won't kill anyone).

So going from don't-expect-them-to-tear-anything-up at 1 DPS to tearing-them-a-new-one at 2 DPS, is it? With continuous-fire mechanic and spread both making the actual DPS way less than that theoretical max?

MGs are only "fine" when mounted six by six on Jagers, they are very much "in need of a small buff" when mounted in quads on e.g. a Spider or a Locust, and "a waste of tonnage" when mounted in singles, pairs or triples on anything.