81 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

This thread made

me chuckle

Welcome to K Town.

[dal10]

the sad thing is the way you described everything role warfare IS working. the scouts are scouting. the jump jet mechs are actually making use of them. the fast striker mechs are striking. and the brawlers are finishing off the enemies.

[Tesunie]

Agamemnon78, on 01 December 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

Wheres the point in using the ground for your tactical advantage?
Wheres the point in getting to "good ground", where the one half can hold and the other half is going to flank?
Where the point of all that, when the only way to have a REAL advantage is through spreading out bunny-hopping, poptart with high-alpha-builds and spam arty and airstrikes every half a minute?
Role-Warfare?? LOL !
Tactical gameplay?? LOL !
Mech-Sim?? LOL !

Thnx a lot to all those smart-guys for destroying the game once more. It´s been good for some weeks, now you can throw it into the dustbin. Again.
Well done!

The alpha-poptarters not just returned, they are lag-shielded during flight and now they can get out of cover pop the arty and laugh.
That done for 3 times and your 3-4 assaults in the heavy lance are softended up to the point of bursting.
And theres no point in "getting away" with a 90-100ton Assault.
Even Heavies got problems with getting away.
But that would not be a problem, hence arty would be useless.
The problem is, that you can bring 24 arty/strikes in the game and throw them in dramatically short order, you just need to rotate (air - arty- air- arty...)



When giant mechs are the weapons of the superior future, why hasnt anyone noticed that half a dozen artillery-pieces from WWII are sufficient to burn them up ??


I bet next week just more 12mans will "have the idea" of depending on that lamer-{Scrap}, cause thats the "tactic of the week" .. lol.. "tactic"

So, you want to punish players for thinking tactically with a "weapon system" that has a "4 second delay (not sek)" and using it by placing them strategically across the battlefield? Last I knew, even in modern day warfare, artillery is considered a powerful piece of weaponry. It's been deemed powerful and very useful since the concept of the Trebuchet, Ballistas and Cannons of old. It also has a 4 second delay, reducing it's effectiveness even lower. It also has a refire "recharge" delay rate as well, making it even less effective for refire from a teammate. Doing 10 damage seems kinda of laughable, and you just stand in the rain. Doing 40 damage seems to be making it as deadly as it should be (though if it's splash damaging and killing the head component of mechs, that might be a bug and probably should be getting looked at. That I could see complaints and requests to fix).

Oh, and those "WWII" pieces are Long Tom Batteries and other high tech, high damage weapons of the future. The bombs are probably similar to the mech killer Arrow IV. Each are very high tech weapons to accompany the high tech nature of the mechs and the universe itself. Just be thankful we aren't being bombarded by space born PPCs from warships... can we say ground melting experiences?

Also, if 12 mans are so predictable, you should be able to come up with some good counter attacks and tactics to the issue. Or if you don't want that, drop out of 12 mans and play some PUGs for a while, or go to a 4 man group. This game isn't about just 12 man groups. There are other ways to play.

As far as LAG goes, I can not help you there. I do not have these lag issues on my game, as my ping seems to stay at a stable 30-40. I have never had the protection of any LAG shields, though I have seen it in effect with other mechs. What is your ping? How high is it? How stable is it? If you ping jumps around wildly, or your targets ping does, HSR develops issues and can't determine where those players are on the field. This leads to shots hitting but not registering, rubberbanding, and other assorted problems not related to just "poptarters". HSR and HR have confirmed problems. It is effecting everyone in the game. No one group is singled out with these problem. It is a bug that is being worked on, but is deeply rooted and hidden in the coding. It isn't an exploit of a known problem that can be prevented. It is a problem effecting everyone.

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

"Easy to avoid" = lol. For starters, you will only see it if it's in front of you. Even if it's to your left or right, you will not see the smoke unless by coincidence you happen to torso twist in that direction at the exact moment the smoke appears. Secondly, suppose someone does put it in front of you so you can see it. You have 4 seconds to react. Typical human reaction speed is about 0.5 seconds, but in addition to that, you have to get your mech facing in another direction (because it's in front of you), then, if you were standing still, you have to accelerate to speed, which takes a full second to get to top speed. Or, you can try just backing up, which will probably be more effective than trying to turn around, even at the greatly reduced speed of reverse. In anything other than a light/medium mech, this basically means that you will not be able to put any substantial distance between yourself and the air strike in your 4 second window of opportunity. At best you may get 15m further away than you were when the smoke appeared, which will certainly reduce the damage you take, but not eliminate it. Still, people who use them know to drop them slightly behind their target, so chances are you'll never get to see the smoke until after you've eaten the strike.

Anyway, nice attempt at pretending that strikes are easily avoidable. "Standing around twiddling your thumbs" really makes people who get struck seem like fools, doesn't it? They deserve what they get for *gasp* letting their mech come to a full stop anywhere on the battlefield. It's as if you're a light pilot who has absolutely no idea what gameplay entails for heavier mechs. Your contribution of false information is very helpful to consideration of this issue.

If my 50 KPH Shadowhawk can avoid it, you faster heavy and assault should be able to avoid it. If you are always on the move, even if it's a back and forth movement, you should be able to get going enough to avoid most of the damage. It might be you need to adjust your combat style a bit to help yourself aliviat the problem. I'm always in constant motion, even when I'm in the back of the lines with my LRM mechs, my Battlemaster/Stalker (the two Assaults I own), or even if I'm in my slow Shadowhawk. Moving back and forth a little bit keeps me alert and ready to move when and if it is needed.

As far as the smoke comes into effect, you wont see it all the time. Staying on the move should still help you either avoid the strike, or reduce it's damage. If you are moving, the person placing it wont know where to drop the strike for max efficiency.

Also, as a final tactic to reduce the effectiveness of either strike, don't stand shoulder to shoulder with your whole team. Spread out a little (but not too much if you know what I mean). The more you spread out, the less effect a single strike will have. If they can't land a strike off and nail 3 or more of you, it is being reduced. If a strike hits only you, but no one else on your team, you have reduced the possible damage that one strike could have caused.

To your last remark, standing still is normally not recommended, even for assault pilots. This doesn't mean one must run around the field at full movement, but moving in and out of cover keeps your feet churning. Stay on the move in some way, even if it is walking back and forth over and over again. If you see smoke, you should already be in movement somehow, or working your way there. This would lead to you at least being able to escape the worst of the blast, and instead of taking the full 6-10 rounds of 40 damage, you will probably reduce that to maybe a round to 3 of 20-10 damage.

All of these advices, which have been provided by more than just myself, are not false information. They work, even in assaults and slow mechs. As I said, if my 50 KPH Shadowhawk can manage it, your 60-70 KPH assault/heavy should be able to as well (seen as most Atlases out run my Shadowhawk). The trick is to stay alert, stay moving, and to try to minimize damage. (Which is exactly what the "poptarters" already understand, and the poptart conversation is different from the art and air strike.)

Agamemnon78, on 02 December 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

lol, young. . .

Last time I was called young, I got some hair left on my bald head.
I´m mid-thirty, got a wife since 2001 and a little daughter of 4 years, a little house, some cars and a nice Moto-Guzzi.
Also some nice papers at my personal "i-love-me-wall" from universities and military-academy.

So plz just do not be so quick in your judgement just because



That all-knowing "L2P" is the most annoying thing one can say. Besides it only shows what kind of player one is:
Obviously someone who needs victory in a computergame AT ALL COSTS just to cover up for his disappointing real-life.

And yet, despite your long life, this was the most disappointing thing in it? My breakup with my Fiance was far more devastating to me. Being fired from a job I liked for something that wasn't my fault was more disappointing than this. Having a professional mechanic from Monro take $600 of my money and cause $1,400 worth of damages to my car was more devastating than this... Just saying that there are much worse things than some small changes in a video game that is likely to see another change soon anyway...


As far as "L2P" comes in, it just means to learn to adapt to your surroundings, create counter measures to problems and tactics in the game, and play the game.

Poptarts being a problem? Bring a toaster! I mean... flank them and remove the cover. If you are on chat, have someone try to play distraction as you (or someone else) flank and remove the problem. Most poptarts I find can't seem to do anything else other than jump and shoot. You close in with them and remove the cover, and they tend to die fairly well.

LRMs being an issue (LRMagadon anyone)? Bring AMS, hug cover, use ECM coverage...

Fast and small mechs being a problem? Bring SSRMs.

Art and Air strikes being a problem? Stay on the move. Make your mechs go faster. Use team chat (or intuition for pugs) to maintain a safe distance from your teammates, while still being close to each other.

The little path to Theta on Terra Therma block by allies? Avoid the death trap, or work on a flanking tactic and come up another slop and break the foe holding defense. Get faster teammates to do this if you are too slow. Do it yourself even if you are too slow... (Wouldn't be the first time I've had to...)


There are always counter tactics to any gear or tactic in the game. If ECM is being a problem for your LRM boat, then stop boating and balance out the LRMs with other weapons. Bring a TAG or BAP... The list can go on. Any tactic in the game has a counter tactic.
(Just to say it again, if either strike is taking out the head on mechs before anything else, that probably is a bug, is a problem, and should be (nicely and politely) reported to support or a thread made to discuss the issue and see if anyone else suffers from the same problems...)

(EDITS: Fixed some grammar issues.)

Edited by Tesunie, 02 December 2013 - 10:39 AM.

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 02 December 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

massive wall of text

All right, frankly I didn't have the patience to read what you wrote in response to the other guys, but I do have easy access to a calculator, so let's have a little fun with that. Your 50 KPH mech can travel a maximum of 55.56 meters in 4 seconds. The radius of an artillery strike is 50m. Good luck getting out of the blast area if you aren't already going full throttle away from the smoke when it appears. Just hope there aren't any hills or obstacles around to worry about that might slow you down.

Now just for fun let's throw in latency plus 0.5 second human reaction time. We'll say 0.1 seconds, assuming we're on American soil. So, while you are actually aware of what is about to happen you can travel a maximum of 47.22 meters. Not quite enough to get out of the blast radius if you happen to be moving away from the center in a straight line, but keep in mind we're assuming that you actually got to see the smokes, so it is in front of you. Unless you were walking backwards at the time, you will actually start off moving TOWARD the center of the blast. Well, I guess you're pretty much boned, huh? Too bad your assertions and advice really just amount to another misleading anecdote. The bottom line is you can't avoid an artillery strike unless you basically weren't going to get hit in the first place, or you were already near the edge of it in a fairly fast mech.

Edited by Atheus, 02 December 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

All right, frankly I didn't have the patience to read what you wrote in response to the other guys, but I do have easy access to a calculator, so let's have a little fun with that. Your 50 KPH mech can travel a maximum of 55.56 meters in 4 seconds. The radius of an artillery strike is 50m. Good luck getting out of the blast area if you aren't already going full throttle away from the smoke when it appears. Just hope there aren't any hills or obstacles around to worry about that might slow you down.

Now just for fun let's throw in latency plus 0.5 second human reaction time. We'll say 0.1 seconds, assuming we're on American soil. So, while you are actually aware of what is about to happen you can travel a maximum of 47.22 meters. Not quite enough to get out of the blast radius if you happen to be moving away from the center in a straight line, but keep in mind we're assuming that you actually got to see the smokes, so it is in front of you. Unless you were walking backwards at the time, you will actually start off moving TOWARD the center of the blast. Well, I guess you're pretty much boned, huh? Too bad your assertions and advice really just amount to another misleading anecdote. The bottom line is you can't avoid an artillery strike unless you basically weren't going to get hit in the first place, or you were already near the edge of it in a fairly fast mech.

You forget in your maths, the artillery strike doesn't have 6-10 shots all hit the same spot that splash out the same way, all at the same time. It is a sequence of attacks that scatter around a little bit. This random chance does help you out, and the attack is spaced over time. So, even with 50 KPH, I can avoid most of the damage of the attack by starting to vacate as soon as possible. Also, the blast from each shot splashes out, so I might not even get hit with the full force of a blast.

So, even by your math, I should be able to escape the strike with minimal damage, or even none if the strikes hit other areas instead. Also, I shouldn't be taking 40 damage a shell unless I am directly under the impact zone. I'll actually probably get 20 damage a shell, unless I am unlucky and one lands right on me. So, unless I stand still on the smoke canister, and all shots hit somewhere near the smoke canister with maybe one hitting dead center, and presuming 10 shots max... you aren't going to see the 400 damage unless every strike hits dead on. You might see 200-300 damage in splash if you stand still in the middle of the danger zone. If you are wise and start to move as soon as you can, you probably will barely be hurt with 20-40 damage splashed all over your mech, even if it's in the middle of the strike sometimes.

Now, I'm not going to say that the strikes aren't deadly, they can be. However, for most of us, they aren't as bad as many others seem to make it out to be. They are time delayed, high spread, lots of splash damage weapons that take up a module slot and costs lots of c-bills to use. Only one may be active at a time, and I think there is a 30 second recharge before it can happen again.

It's most deadly to targets that bunch up together, and stand still. Yes, holding ground is a good strategy, but it looses it's tactical edge when artillery starts to come in, just like how it should. Stay on the move, even if it's only a little bit. Don't group up shoulder to shoulder, and try to stay aware of your surroundings. Will this work all the time? It shouldn't. No plans survive contact with the enemy.

So, does anyone know how much the shots spread out? We know how much damage each shot does (40) per shell, if it's a direct hit. However, I haven't seen any information on how far the splash damage reaches, what the interval between each shell is, and how far apart each shell lands from each other. If it drops one shell a second, and it takes someone 2 seconds to vacate the area, and each shell drops 20 meters from each other... it would be possible to get out of the way with minimal damage even in a slow mech.

To sum up, all I'm saying is that it doesn't apply all 10 shots of 40 damage in the same spot (dead onto your mech) instantly. It is time delayed and only effects a certain amount of area at a given time. It also spreads this damage across your whole mech, and not just on the CT or Head. So, 40 damage gets spread out to roughly 7 components... that's about 5 damage a section of a mech per direct hit of a shell. Of course I am estimating here with what I do know about the strikes, which some of it may be incorrect. (I don't use them. I haven't looked at them. I have no interest in them.)

Edited by Tesunie, 02 December 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Heffay]

Agamemnon78, on 02 December 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

Also some nice papers at my personal "i-love-me-wall" from universities and military-academy.

Well well well, look at our local VMI graduate! All proud of his "service"!

Or maybe you meant the Merchant Marine academy?

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 02 December 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Another wall of text

Yes, I know it's random where the shells fall within that 50m radius. No, it does not drop 1 shell per second, lol. The whole thing lasts about one second, maybe two tops, so 5-10 per second. The fact that you don't already know this makes me think you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to avoiding air/artillery. Also, it will only take someone two seconds to vacate the area "in a slow mech" if they are already halfway out of it, and already travelling at max speed toward the edge when it drops. I just demonstrated this earlier with some basic math, so I'm not sure why you're trying to whittle away at this point. You won't like what gets revealed if I actually calculate how much time it takes to accelerate to speed and get out of the area.

Here's an anecdote for you: just twenty minutes ago I did about 600 damage within 15 seconds to a team who was trying to do a big push around the platform inside the volcano in Terra Therma to come up behind our team and route them. There was pretty much no chance to avoid the blasts without jumping off into the lava, which would have completely screwed up their whole advance. They had absolutely no choice but to eat both the artillery and air strikes and keep going, because that's what it's like being in terrain that isn't just an open plane, and someone like me putting an artillery or air strike somewhere useful. My team lost anyway because they were severely outgunned, but just suffice it to say there are plenty of times where you will not be able to escape the strike no matter what.

So your "you can get out of it if you try" idea just won't pan out unless it's just a really poorly placed strike, or the strike wasn't going to hit you in the first place. I agree you can maybe somewhat reduce the damage you will take by getting lucky enough to see the smoke and attempting to react, but in reality you're not going to change your circumstances by much at all unless you are in a pretty darn nimble machine.

[Heffay]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Here's an anecdote for you: just twenty minutes ago I did about 600 damage within 15 seconds to a team who was trying to do a big push around the platform inside the volcano in Terra Therma to come up behind our team and route them. There was pretty much no chance to avoid the blasts without jumping off into the lava, which would have completely screwed up their whole advance.

That isn't the only way they could have avoided 600 damage.

[Atheus]

Heffay, on 02 December 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

That isn't the only way they could have avoided 600 damage.

Wow, awesome. It's like you presented an argument without actually presenting an argument. You're right, they could have just used their hearthstone! Why didn't I think of that?

[Heffay]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Wow, awesome. It's like you presented an argument without actually presenting an argument. You're right, they could have just used their hearthstone! Why didn't I think of that?

So much for leaving it as an exercise to the reader.

If your opponent is clustered in a way that doing 600 points of damage via a couple of arty strikes is possible, that is not a problem with arty strike.

Do I need to spell it out more for you? I can. Just let me know if you can't think through that brain teaser.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

[/size]
Yes, I know it's random where the shells fall within that 50m radius. No, it does not drop 1 shell per second, lol. The whole thing lasts about one second, maybe two tops, so 5-10 per second. The fact that you don't already know this makes me think you really don't know what you're talking about when it comes to avoiding air/artillery. Also, it will only take someone two seconds to vacate the area "in a slow mech" if they are already halfway out of it, and already travelling at max speed toward the edge when it drops. I just demonstrated this earlier with some basic math, so I'm not sure why you're trying to whittle away at this point. You won't like what gets revealed if I actually calculate how much time it takes to accelerate to speed and get out of the area.

Here's an anecdote for you: just twenty minutes ago I did about 600 damage within 15 seconds to a team who was trying to do a big push around the platform inside the volcano in Terra Therma to come up behind our team and route them. There was pretty much no chance to avoid the blasts without jumping off into the lava, which would have completely screwed up their whole advance. They had absolutely no choice but to eat both the artillery and air strikes and keep going, because that's what it's like being in terrain that isn't just an open plane, and someone like me putting an artillery or air strike somewhere useful. My team lost anyway because they were severely outgunned, but just suffice it to say there are plenty of times where you will not be able to escape the strike no matter what.

So your "you can get out of it if you try" idea just won't pan out unless it's just a really poorly placed strike, or the strike wasn't going to hit you in the first place. I agree you can maybe somewhat reduce the damage you will take by getting lucky enough to see the smoke and attempting to react, but in reality you're not going to change your circumstances by much at all unless you are in a pretty darn nimble machine.

To clearify:
1 Shell per second was a random number I generated. There was a reason I asked if anyone knew how many shells drop in a given increment of time.

2 Seconds to vacate the area was another randomly generated number, though there are mechs that can do so. I don't know how many seconds it will take for a mech to vacate the area. This leads to why I asked how much the shells blast radius was per shell, how long you had before the next shell, and how much each shell will land roughly away from one another.

I also was guessing that most people are not in the dead center of one of these strikes, and will be somewhere nearby the center to even on the outer edges. I wasn't thinking of people seeing the smoke cloud and trying to walk through the center of the area to "vacate".

Your math continues to fail at providing and including the random spread of the attacks, as well as the added momentum of not standing still. I rarely stop on the field of battle unless I believe I'm fairly safe from attacks. This leads me to believe that, if someone was to stay in some form of constant motion, one would maintain enough momentum that one would not need to gain momentum from a dead stop. Even in my LRM mechs, I always try to stay in some form of motion, even if it's just moving forwards and backwards.

I was pointing out as well that not all shells land on target.

I was also pointing out that there is also a small delay between shells landing. You don't have all shells hitting at the same time. That means that, yes, one might get hit with the first few, but one should also be able to leave the area, or at least increase their proximity to the worst of the damage. I in no way said that one could avoid all damage from all strikes with ease. You may/will eventually get hit with them, but if you react calmly and quickly, you should be able to avoid the worse of the damage.

I'm not sure why you are so intent upon proving with false math in a non-mathimatical situation that it can't be avoided. It can be, even if not completely. You can math some things out, but other pieces are intuition, reflexes and other parts that can't be placed into an exact mathematical equation. My personal reflex time will vary from moment to moment. You can't assign an arbitrary 0.5 seconds to react to this number. Just like I can't arbitrarily say that a bomb will drop every second (which was a random number as an example).



Now, for your situation you describe. My personal response to that strike would have been to seek cover and abandon the advance. I would have gladly jumped down into the lava to avoid the bulk of the damage. I would do so with the thoughts of trying to reposition to a better location so that I can come at a better angle. I also would recommend to that team to not cluster so close together, as when you do it becomes like shooting fish in a barrel. If your opponent misses one mech, they are likely to have not wasted their shot and will hit another mech. It's also referred to as not getting under each others feet.

I would also congratulate you for a well placed artillery strike and using the terrain against your foes and to your own advantage. You stuck them with a choice, continue your charge and take damage, or break and run and loose your advantage of the charge.

I would also like to mention, I never said that every artillery and air strike can be avoided. However, there is a lot you can do to mitigate or avoid the damage from such a strike. Staying in motion is one way. Standing still is usually not advised for most mechs and most situations, though there are times when standing still is a good enough advantage to counter the disadvantages it provides.



The Short Version:
There are ways to mitigate the damage, tactics to counter, and ways to play that can make any strike less effective. Just as on the flip side there are times when to use a strike for max effect, there are tactics to bring them to full effect, and there are ways to maximize damage by aiming for the best targets for the strike. For everything, there is a tactic and a counter-tactic. Adapt and learn how to handle things as they change.

The best commanders are not those that can devise a great plan, but those that can adapt and adjust a plan to the ever changing conditions of a battlefield.

[Roadbeer]

Topical in K Town!

Bad form

[Atheus]

Heffay, on 02 December 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

So much for leaving it as an exercise to the reader.

If your opponent is clustered in a way that doing 600 points of damage via a couple of arty strikes is possible, that is not a problem with arty strike.

Do I need to spell it out more for you? I can. Just let me know if you can't think through that brain teaser.

Nah brah, we all get what you mean without saying anything. Just continue implying people are wrong without backing it up with any arguments. You were cooler that way.

Tesunie, on 02 December 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

To clearify:
1 Shell per second was a random number I generated. There was a reason I asked if anyone knew how many shells drop in a given increment of time.

2 Seconds to vacate the area was another randomly generated number, though there are mechs that can do so. I don't know how many seconds it will take for a mech to vacate the area. This leads to why I asked how much the shells blast radius was per shell, how long you had before the next shell, and how much each shell will land roughly away from one another.

I also was guessing that most people are not in the dead center of one of these strikes, and will be somewhere nearby the center to even on the outer edges. I wasn't thinking of people seeing the smoke cloud and trying to walk through the center of the area to "vacate".

Your math continues to fail at providing and including the random spread of the attacks, as well as the added momentum of not standing still. I rarely stop on the field of battle unless I believe I'm fairly safe from attacks. This leads me to believe that, if someone was to stay in some form of constant motion, one would maintain enough momentum that one would not need to gain momentum from a dead stop. Even in my LRM mechs, I always try to stay in some form of motion, even if it's just moving forwards and backwards.

I was pointing out as well that not all shells land on target.

I was also pointing out that there is also a small delay between shells landing. You don't have all shells hitting at the same time. That means that, yes, one might get hit with the first few, but one should also be able to leave the area, or at least increase their proximity to the worst of the damage. I in no way said that one could avoid all damage from all strikes with ease. You may/will eventually get hit with them, but if you react calmly and quickly, you should be able to avoid the worse of the damage.

I'm not sure why you are so intent upon proving with false math in a non-mathimatical situation that it can't be avoided. It can be, even if not completely. You can math some things out, but other pieces are intuition, reflexes and other parts that can't be placed into an exact mathematical equation. My personal reflex time will vary from moment to moment. You can't assign an arbitrary 0.5 seconds to react to this number. Just like I can't arbitrarily say that a bomb will drop every second (which was a random number as an example).



Now, for your situation you describe. My personal response to that strike would have been to seek cover and abandon the advance. I would have gladly jumped down into the lava to avoid the bulk of the damage. I would do so with the thoughts of trying to reposition to a better location so that I can come at a better angle. I also would recommend to that team to not cluster so close together, as when you do it becomes like shooting fish in a barrel. If your opponent misses one mech, they are likely to have not wasted their shot and will hit another mech. It's also referred to as not getting under each others feet.

I would also congratulate you for a well placed artillery strike and using the terrain against your foes and to your own advantage. You stuck them with a choice, continue your charge and take damage, or break and run and loose your advantage of the charge.

I would also like to mention, I never said that every artillery and air strike can be avoided. However, there is a lot you can do to mitigate or avoid the damage from such a strike. Staying in motion is one way. Standing still is usually not advised for most mechs and most situations, though there are times when standing still is a good enough advantage to counter the disadvantages it provides.



The Short Version:
There are ways to mitigate the damage, tactics to counter, and ways to play that can make any strike less effective. Just as on the flip side there are times when to use a strike for max effect, there are tactics to bring them to full effect, and there are ways to maximize damage by aiming for the best targets for the strike. For everything, there is a tactic and a counter-tactic. Adapt and learn how to handle things as they change.

The best commanders are not those that can devise a great plan, but those that can adapt and adjust a plan to the ever changing conditions of a battlefield.

Yeah so I got through the first two paragraphs of your "clearification" and I can already tell it's a waste of time reading this. Let's just frame it up here:

Tesunie, on 02 December 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

If it drops one shell a second, and it takes someone 2 seconds to vacate the area, and each shell drops 20 meters from each other... it would be possible to get out of the way with minimal damage even in a slow mech.

Don't just pull numbers out of the air that clearly have no basis in reality. "I don't know how often the shells drop, so let's just err on the side of something advantageous to my argument despite being nowhere near accurate... one per second!"

At this rate, you may as well be warming up to "well I don't know what the blast radius is, so let's just say 3 cm"

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

Nah brah, we all get what you mean without saying anything. Just continue implying people are wrong without backing it up with any arguments. You were cooler that way.

Yeah so I got through the first two paragraphs of your "clearification" and I can already tell it's a waste of time reading this. Let's just frame it up here:



Don't just pull numbers out of the air that clearly have no basis in reality. "I don't know how often the shells drop, so let's just err on the side of something advantageous to my argument despite being nowhere near accurate... one per second!"

At this rate, you may as well be warming up to "well I don't know what the blast radius is, so let's just say 3 cm"

The key word in that quote you bolded, and it is now bolded for your own referenced was "If". I admitted, if you bothered to read, that I did not know how fast they dropped. The point was, and still is, they all don't drop at the same time, but fall over a given period of time.

I'd like to say, if you aren't willing to read in a conversation, then don't respond to that conversation. It just looks worse for you. I'll keep this short for you so you might be able to actually read it, I don't know all there is on artillery strike. I asked questions on it's specifications for a reason. You still didn't provide any clarification, and back your own point of view with half math. I'm trying to find information out, while making some loose comparisons. I know it doesn't drop one shell a second. It was an "if" number. An example. A reference to try and make a point from. It was not to be taken as a hard number.

When you actually decide to take the time to read, let me know. Otherwise, don't bother. You want technical information and more clarified explanations, expect "wall-o-text" remarks. I did you the favor of reading your responses to their entirety, yet you can't respect me enough to do the same...

(PS: If you know the thread the information is found in, you could link it and we can then read with more information for more conclusive "math".)

Edited by Tesunie, 02 December 2013 - 08:51 PM.

[Heffay]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 08:04 PM, said:

Nah brah, we all get what you mean without saying anything. Just continue implying people are wrong without backing it up with any arguments. You were cooler that way.

No worries. I'm sure at the Elo you play at, doing 600 damage in one arty strike is entirely possible.

Still not a problem with arty/air strike.

[Atheus]

Heffay, on 02 December 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

No worries. I'm sure at the Elo you play at, doing 600 damage in one arty strike is entirely possible.

Still not a problem with arty/air strike.

Yeah that's cool. It must be because I'm a bad player and I only play against bads. You don't need to back that up with anything either. On your way.

[Heffay]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Yeah that's cool. It must be because I'm a bad player and I only play against bads. You don't need to back that up with anything either. On your way.

Hey, you're the one who said you're dropping in matches where you can do 600 points of damage in one arty strike.

What else do I need to do to back that statement up?

[Atheus]

Heffay, on 02 December 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

Hey, you're the one who said you're dropping in matches where you can do 600 points of damage in one arty strike.

What else do I need to do to back that statement up?

Evidently nothing. According to you, you'll never find a lot of mechs in one area in a high ELO match, because of the power of the artillery strike.

Edit: by the way, it was both an artillery and an air strike, just for clarity.

Edited by Atheus, 02 December 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Agamemnon78]

my last words, trying to make my problems finally clear.

Its not the artillery strike as such.
Its, as a single strike, good where it is, because it cant be ignored and plays a role.

The problem:
You call in arty and after the arty ceased firing, you call in the airforce, after they ceased, another player calls arty, and so on.
There isnt a cooldown worth the word between arty and airstrike.

And thats leads to 12man games, where half the team spams continually arty and airstrikes without pause.

Next Problem:
No, not lag due to server-location, thats quite ok and we can handle it.
Lagshield of mechs, while they are mid-air is the problem
When those buggy shadowhawks, and meanwhile Highlanders also, are midair, they seem to have armour the value of an Atlas.

@Heffay: It really doesnt mean much to me, if a guy in the desert of arizona believes what I stated in a thread or not. I knew it was "dangerous" to write that down the moment I clicked the "post" button. But: so what?

But now, I´m cutting my notification on this censured K-Town-thread and all will be well
cu

Edited by Agamemnon78, 03 December 2013 - 12:54 AM.

[Heffay]

Atheus, on 02 December 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Evidently nothing. According to you, you'll never find a lot of mechs in one area in a high ELO match, because of the power of the artillery strike.

Edit: by the way, it was both an artillery and an air strike, just for clarity.

Video or it didn't happen. If you're going to make extraordinary claims, you better come to the table with extraordinary evidence.