565 replies to this topic

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Azargo, on 12 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

I won't be trying to paint PGI all white here, because I too think PGI does development with a quite slow pace, but I think I just owe some corrections on objective truth to the potential readers of this that have no idea what War Thunder is, because you make it look like it's a game to die for. It's not.

Let's go point by point.

• "War Thunder went into Open Beta Nov 1, 2012. For all intents and purposes, they're the same age."
  
  Sure, they didn't do any premature launch, but that launch line is pretty blurred for all F2P MMO games.

• "War Thunder just went over 5,000,000 accounts with over 30,000 playing simultaneously at any one time."
  
  Not sure about accounts, but at 4 AM at GMT+4, when daily bonuses reset (and when I play) online peaks at 13-15k players. Sure, it's higher at Russian prime time, but it seems to me that it has a lot more audience in Russia, given its lineage.

• "War Thunder is entering OPEN BETA for it's first real expansion - ground combat."
  
  Which includes tanks, that have like whole 1 ballistic weapon compared to our battlemechs, and is just adding a new unit type to existing game on existing maps. Good effort? Sure, considering how hard Gaijin is trying to steal players from World of Tanks. True Expansion? Please. Did you see tank physics? Or the amount of whine about how unrealistic they are?

• "War Thunder radically redoes it's UI in March 2013. Reaches 1 million ACTIVE accounts."
  
  War Thunder has a minimalistic UI with basically text on buttons. It also has some icons for crew training and aircraft upgrades right now, but those are getting removed in favor of text-on-buttons in 1.37 (good thing we get to keep icons we have for upgrades). What exactly is so great about that UI? The fact that it turns green from gray in new patch? Please. It just gets the job done, but so does MWO's.

• "War Thunder had proper factions implemented as of April 2013."
  
  I'm surprised to even see this. Isn't that because nations in WW2 had distinct vehicles to manufacture? Or would you like to be unable to buy Cat K2 because it's a Kuritan mech? I'm glad that MWO has no faction restrictions for mechs. I swear I am.

• "War Thunder also has full VOIP implementation as of April 2013."
  
  Which is never used. Because noobs even in Arcade just roll out their fighters and manage to lose games with one enemy tank left (which they can kamikaze into to win), while 2 enemy bombers roll over your 15+ tanks and grab a win for their team. I've been playing WT for 4 months, I've NEVER heard anyone use VOIP.

• "War Thunder had a big graphical overhaul in June 2013."
  
  This might be subjective, but even with DX-11 on 1.37 dev server, WT doesn't look nearly as pretty as MWO. Sure, it kicks *** performance-wise, but If you have a proper rig, MWO is still a treat to look at, while WT is just "hey nice shadows, but I still have hexagonal barrels for most of my guns on most of my planes".

• "War Thunder has a proper ranking system in July 2013."
  
  Say what??? WT doesn't have player ranking AT ALL. You're being thrown with 15 absolutely random people every time. Yes, the aircraft are "balanced" by era (which is getting simplified in 1.37 from 20 tiers to 5), but don't even get me started on poostorm on the forums, about how many aircraft are placed in wrong eras and balanced against wrong opponents, ranging from 4 x 20mm Cannon premium Mustang buyers complaining that it's not pay 2 win enough for their money, to poor Me-262s being thrown against MiGs and Sabres and being owned with no chances to win. I happen to speak Russian as a second language. Trust me, Russian whine is like no whine you've ever seen.

• "War Thunder has at least 9 UNIQUE maps which are FAR larger and FAR more complicated than MWO's."
  
  Once again, this is a silly argument. Should I start explaining why aircraft maps CAN NOT be more detailed than ground combat maps? Or why they're larger? Or that Earth in 1940s had far less complicated landscapes than alien worlds in 3050s? On a side note, weather in WT is nice, and very rare night maps are really good. Now that random time and weather would be really nice to get in MWO, along with floodlights on mechs.

• "War Thunder has 9 plane categories with each category having way over10 different chassis in there."
  
  Please, enlighten us, what 9 categories are you talking about? Because I recall fighters, bombers and attackers (or do you count naval fighters and torpedo carriers among different categories?). Once again, should I even mention how my beloved bombers have no chances of survival in arcade, because of negligible efficiency of their gunners, or how they still have not much to do in historical, so much that Gaijin is addressing this just now in upcoming 1.37?

• "Even though WT has what I consider a more than adequate UI presently, we're getting another UI update soon to accommodate tanks."
  
  See above

• "Also, we're getting some new passes on graphics, again, to make the game as pretty on the ground as it has been in the air."
  
  See above.

• "Let's not forget also, the cost of premium planes, the most expensive costing approx. $12 ......"
  
  Ah yes, those premium planes that have many cannons and lowered ranks like that premium Typhoon, or those captured planes allowing you to fly P-47 as German. All of them being either P2W or useless, so much that 1.37 is overhauling the entire leveling system to make you "research" a plane by flying another plane and earning research points before you can even buy it, which suddenly makes premium planes a lot more viable for farming research points in 1.37, since half of them were pointless in 1.35.

• "And.. the New Player Experience.... 10 in depth tutorials, that teach the entire core game, and give rewards for completing them. Some missions even require you doing the tutorials. I did them, and was 100% prepared for the game, where all I had to do was learn to aim."
  
  Learn to aim with a mouse, while instructor is flying your plane, with an aim indicator that makes it sooooooo easy for casual crowd to aim and hit. So much that youtube is ripe with commercials of aimbots for WT that abuse that aim marker. Except the aim marker is sometimes a horrible liar, making it impossible to hit with weapons like German MG/FF, because the marker only takes into account one of your weapons. I call a double fail experience-wise, but a pure win commerce-wise. Now housewives know how to fly WW2 planes. Yeah. On an irrelevant side note, Gaijin is pushing some more realistic engine thermodynamic models in 1.37. And players are now required to manually open radiators to keep their engines cool, because autopilot just keeps radiators closed. Amount of whine about this?: Godzillastic.

• "And... the November Event where they GAVE OUT premium currency. You won X amount of missions, you got PREMIUM currency."
  
  Which is worth a lot on low levels, but ain't worth jack blast beyond 10. You got 400 eagles from the event, now you can get half the lions you need for that overpriced overtiered F4U-Ic Corsair with a repair cost so high you could buy buy a tier 5 plane (smth like 34k for RB?). Generous eh?. NGNG is doing giveaways of 1-day premium time codes during their drops. That, I think, is no less generous.

• "Oh, and they have bundled packs and have for quite some time. I spent the money I had aside for Phoenix, and spent it on WT instead. Their top tier pack war normally $80, was on sale for 25% off, nabbed it for $60, got 2 premium campaigns, 5 premium planes, 90 days Premium account, and 10,000 in premium currency."
  
  Not a bad value, but what are you gonna do with those campaigns? Premuim planes, ok. I hear that premium Zero us quite a cheat in HB. Not in arcade though, all Zeros are fodder in arcade. Also, good luck flying that XP-38G with tier 11 opposition, potentially facing off against tier 13 planes. Good thing you at least got those eagles. Take an advice, spend those on crew slots and training. Frankly, I've been playing MWO for a year and WT for about 4 months, I've invested a lot of cash in both, and it's my firm belief that premium planes in WT aren't nearly as much bang for a buck as premium mechs in MWO.

• "Their MM is a great bit better than ours, yet does need additional tweaking, but the new tiering system is being done to fix that. There are some Flight Model, and Damage Model issues, like we have, but they don't stretch out nearly as far as we have here."
  
  Once again there is no MM in WT, just a rank balancer that tries to place you within 2 ranks of the rest of players within a game. Here's a shout-out to all guys in tier 8 P-47s facing off against FW-190s with 4 x 20mm Cannon + Minengeschoss ammo and UFO Yak-3s and Spitfire IX's. Also, damage models don't mean much in a world of 37mm Cobras and 45mm Yaks. I wish every player that got 1-shotted by those got $10 for every time that happens. And yeah, flight model. No. You should look at how much whine there is about flight models on the forums. Actually, there's a dev topic that describes how many planes have only relatively accurate settings. Now, that's a whole lot.

• "Read their forums. Vast difference in public posts' attitude. Mostly because the community isn't polarized like we here at MWO, as the large part of the userbase there is quite content, which is a reflection on Gaijin."
  
  Really? I disagree. There's just as much whine about just as many things, with people simultaneously screaming NERF X and BUFF X in adjacent topics, also multiplied by the fact that those planes really existed, and everyone thinks they know better than Gaijin how it all was in 1940s. Actually, Gaijin follows public opinion a bit too much IMO. Game designers should know better than asking their audience about how their game should work. Isn't that why they get professional education?
  
• "It's baffling how in 2013, an IP like MWO can end up like this. WT doesn't even have an IP, it's simply WW2."
  
  The reason MWO is getting so much flak fire is exactly because it's an IP, which wasn't designed to be a realistic game, just an abstract tabletop.

I wish WT was oh so much better than MWO, but it's not. It's got all sorts of problems, and the new research system in 1.37 that means that you'll have to put time into your plane in addition to buying it at quite angry prices (which won't change, despite the additional burden of research) is as questionable, as the decision, to make mixed setups in historical and realistic battles, as opposed to nation- and era-limited setups that exist now in 1.35. Bash PGI whenever you have something to really bash them for, but don't make Gaijin look like saints. MWO, if slowly developed, is just as good (or bad) a game as any other title out there. I'm sorry that you wanted Star Citizen in BT universe. MWO is what it is. And if you can't cope with it, there is always WT, as well as a myriad other games out there.

That whole rebutal stinks of putting a spin on the whole thing, Oh, look, they actually have done a ton more than PGI but in reality, the stuff isn't all that mind blowing as the stuff that PGI has done...erm....yeah!!!! If you're going to do a rebutal, at least don't make it sound like you're a shrill. The whole point is that both games have a similar devellopment time, dev team size and ambitions. The only difference is that WT has had enormous success because they've implemented the vast majority of what they intended to whilst MWO has done nothing to that effect save giving us (overpriced) mechs. Actually, as far as we know, and going by the initial sales figures for founders and by extrapolation, Phoenix and mech sales, PGI should be in a very healthy position and should have already pumped out a whole lot of content. This lends more credence to people who think that at least part of PGI's funding and attention is deviated to projects like MWTactics and the 360 port. For the record, MWO doesn't look anything as good as WT in my humble opinion, at least, with that horrible filter on. And remember, I never even played WT, I am sticking with MWO... for how long, that remains to be seen.

[Vaan]

One day we should visit PGI studio and see what are they really doing..

[Ensaine]

Azargo, on 12 December 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

I won't be trying to paint PGI all white here, because I too think PGI does development with a quite slow pace, but I think I just owe some corrections on objective truth to the potential readers of this that have no idea what War Thunder is, because you make it look like it's a game to die for. It's not.

Let's go point by point.

• "War Thunder went into Open Beta Nov 1, 2012. For all intents and purposes, they're the same age."
  
  
  
  
  Sure, they didn't do any premature launch, but that launch line is pretty blurred for all F2P MMO games.

Except MWO's launch was touted all over the interwebz. We got a craptastic CW video, cold chicken, and really crappy pizza, and broken feeds. Epic ....

• "War Thunder just went over 5,000,000 accounts with over 30,000 playing simultaneously at any one time."
  
  
  
  
  Not sure about accounts, but at 4 AM at GMT+4, when daily bonuses reset (and when I play) online peaks at 13-15k players. Sure, it's higher at Russian prime time, but it seems to me that it has a lot more audience in Russia, given its lineage.

I just logged off at 5:45am EST, and there were 15k players on. Last night, there were over 35k on ....we'll say fail on this ...

• "War Thunder is entering OPEN BETA for it's first real expansion - ground combat."
  
  
  
  
  Which includes tanks, that have like whole 1 ballistic weapon compared to our battlemechs, and is just adding a new unit type to existing game on existing maps. Good effort? Sure, considering how hard Gaijin is trying to steal players from World of Tanks. True Expansion? Please. Did you see tank physics? Or the amount of whine about how unrealistic they are?

Are you serious? Same age game, already beta testing their next game mode .....? REALLY going here?

• "War Thunder radically redoes it's UI in March 2013. Reaches 1 million ACTIVE accounts."
  
  
  
  
  War Thunder has a minimalistic UI with basically text on buttons. It also has some icons for crew training and aircraft upgrades right now, but those are getting removed in favor of text-on-buttons in 1.37 (good thing we get to keep icons we have for upgrades). What exactly is so great about that UI? The fact that it turns green from gray in new patch? Please. It just gets the job done, but so does MWO's.

Like, where in WT do I have to click on 4 things to hit my ready button. Where in MWO can I right click on a friend, and invite to group? In the lobby you say? Oh wait ........



Like who cares about text over buttons? Does the UI work? Yes. Is it more functional and robust? Yes. EOF

• "War Thunder had proper factions implemented as of April 2013."
  
  
  
  
  I'm surprised to even see this. Isn't that because nations in WW2 had distinct vehicles to manufacture? Or would you like to be unable to buy Cat K2 because it's a Kuritan mech? I'm glad that MWO has no faction restrictions for mechs. I swear I am.

Prolly just should have skipped this one .....

• "War Thunder also has full VOIP implementation as of April 2013."
  
  
  
  
  Which is never used. Because noobs even in Arcade just roll out their fighters and manage to lose games with one enemy tank left (which they can kamikaze into to win), while 2 enemy bombers roll over your 15+ tanks and grab a win for their team. I've been playing WT for 4 months, I've NEVER heard anyone use VOIP.

Hey, to me, all in-game VOIP is horrible when compared to Teamspeak..... no comment from me here

• "War Thunder had a big graphical overhaul in June 2013."
  
  
  
  
  This might be subjective, but even with DX-11 on 1.37 dev server, WT doesn't look nearly as pretty as MWO. Sure, it kicks *** performance-wise, but If you have a proper rig, MWO is still a treat to look at, while WT is just "hey nice shadows, but I still have hexagonal barrels for most of my guns on most of my planes".

So much for your reading of their forums. MWO's art department is the only thing keeping this thing afloat IMO.

• "War Thunder has a proper ranking system in July 2013."
  
  
  
  
  Say what??? WT doesn't have player ranking AT ALL. You're being thrown with 15 absolutely random people every time. Yes, the aircraft are "balanced" by era (which is getting simplified in 1.37 from 20 tiers to 5), but don't even get me started on poostorm on the forums, about how many aircraft are placed in wrong eras and balanced against wrong opponents, ranging from 4 x 20mm Cannon premium Mustang buyers complaining that it's not pay 2 win enough for their money, to poor Me-262s being thrown against MiGs and Sabres and being owned with no chances to win. I happen to speak Russian as a second language. Trust me, Russian whine is like no whine you've ever seen.

As a lvl 17 Pilot, and 13 US, I say no such thing as 'no chance'. THAT is the whine I see on their forums mostly... people who can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle (name that movie

• "War Thunder has at least 9 UNIQUE maps which are FAR larger and FAR more complicated than MWO's."
  
  
  
  
  Once again, this is a silly argument. Should I start explaining why aircraft maps CAN NOT be more detailed than ground combat maps? Or why they're larger? Or that Earth in 1940s had far less complicated landscapes than alien worlds in 3050s? On a side note, weather in WT is nice, and very rare night maps are really good. Now that random time and weather would be really nice to get in MWO, along with floodlights on mechs.

Shouldda skipped this one too .....

• "War Thunder has 9 plane categories with each category having way over10 different chassis in there."
  
  
  
  
  Please, enlighten us, what 9 categories are you talking about? Because I recall fighters, bombers and attackers (or do you count naval fighters and torpedo carriers among different categories?). Once again, should I even mention how my beloved bombers have no chances of survival in arcade, because of negligible efficiency of their gunners, or how they still have not much to do in historical, so much that Gaijin is addressing this just now in upcoming 1.37?

You twice now, have completely debunked your own rebuttal due to the 'no chance' thing.....which is total bull. And I play both AB and HB, but mostly AB. Even with a few FM's and DM's being borked, any plane has a chance... my bombers gunners are maxed out ..... go ahead, get behind my B-25 for a few seconds

• "Even though WT has what I consider a more than adequate UI presently, we're getting another UI update soon to accommodate tanks."
  
  
  
  
  See above

See above ...

• "Also, we're getting some new passes on graphics, again, to make the game as pretty on the ground as it has been in the air."
  
  
  
  
  See above.

You too ....

• "Let's not forget also, the cost of premium planes, the most expensive costing approx. $12 ......"
  
  
  
  
  Ah yes, those premium planes that have many cannons and lowered ranks like that premium Typhoon, or those captured planes allowing you to fly P-47 as German. All of them being either P2W or useless, so much that 1.37 is overhauling the entire leveling system to make you "research" a plane by flying another plane and earning research points before you can even buy it, which suddenly makes premium planes a lot more viable for farming research points in 1.37, since half of them were pointless in 1.35.

This is moar of the whine I see on the WT and MWO forums........regarding the WT forums, this whine is usually based on the skillset of the poster. I own 6 premium planes, including Thach's..... only one I played for any amount of time was Thach's .... my XP-38G is growing weeds.... haven't touched the other 4 from y pack purchase.......OH, BTW, most of my 5 premiums are lvl 10+ ....

• "And.. the New Player Experience.... 10 in depth tutorials, that teach the entire core game, and give rewards for completing them. Some missions even require you doing the tutorials. I did them, and was 100% prepared for the game, where all I had to do was learn to aim."
  
  
  
  
  Learn to aim with a mouse, while instructor is flying your plane, with an aim indicator that makes it sooooooo easy for casual crowd to aim and hit. So much that youtube is ripe with commercials of aimbots for WT that abuse that aim marker. Except the aim marker is sometimes a horrible liar, making it impossible to hit with weapons like German MG/FF, because the marker only takes into account one of your weapons. I call a double fail experience-wise, but a pure win commerce-wise. Now housewives know how to fly WW2 planes. Yeah. On an irrelevant side note, Gaijin is pushing some more realistic engine thermodynamic models in 1.37. And players are now required to manually open radiators to keep their engines cool, because autopilot just keeps radiators closed. Amount of whine about this?: Godzillastic.

I turned off the instructor after my 3rd day playing, which is when I found out HOW to turn it off... don't tell me you still have it on? And anyone worth their salt in that game has learned how to REALLY aim... I dunno, took me like 10 minutes?

• "And... the November Event where they GAVE OUT premium currency. You won X amount of missions, you got PREMIUM currency."
  
  
  
  
  Which is worth a lot on low levels, but ain't worth jack blast beyond 10. You got 400 eagles from the event, now you can get half the lions you need for that overpriced overtiered F4U-Ic Corsair with a repair cost so high you could buy buy a tier 5 plane (smth like 34k for RB?). Generous eh?. NGNG is doing giveaways of 1-day premium time codes during their drops. That, I think, is no less generous.

BUT, they DID it. Period. PGI gives away nothing. Not even belly button lint. And who really cares what No Guts No Spine does......


Dunno why you have issues with the standard currency. I'm sitting on almost 2mil SL's atm.......after purchasing both P-51's ......my F4U-1c is a beast btw.....

• "Oh, and they have bundled packs and have for quite some time. I spent the money I had aside for Phoenix, and spent it on WT instead. Their top tier pack war normally $80, was on sale for 25% off, nabbed it for $60, got 2 premium campaigns, 5 premium planes, 90 days Premium account, and 10,000 in premium currency."
  
  
  
  
  Not a bad value, but what are you gonna do with those campaigns? Premuim planes, ok. I hear that premium Zero us quite a cheat in HB. Not in arcade though, all Zeros are fodder in arcade. Also, good luck flying that XP-38G with tier 11 opposition, potentially facing off against tier 13 planes. Good thing you at least got those eagles. Take an advice, spend those on crew slots and training. Frankly, I've been playing MWO for a year and WT for about 4 months, I've invested a lot of cash in both, and it's my firm belief that premium planes in WT aren't nearly as much bang for a buck as premium mechs in MWO.

I enjoy the single player part of the game. Good way to warm up, and get to play some historic-based stuff, as I really like WW2 history.


Man, I don't think you really played the game much at all. Zero's are one of the best turn fighters in the game........I think it's YOU who need advice dude ........$4-6-8-$10 for your average premium plane? VS. $35-40 for a mech? I much prefer the smaller transactions, and costs to play the game.

• "Their MM is a great bit better than ours, yet does need additional tweaking, but the new tiering system is being done to fix that. There are some Flight Model, and Damage Model issues, like we have, but they don't stretch out nearly as far as we have here."
  
  
  
  
  Once again there is no MM in WT, just a rank balancer that tries to place you within 2 ranks of the rest of players within a game. Here's a shout-out to all guys in tier 8 P-47s facing off against FW-190s with 4 x 20mm Cannon + Minengeschoss ammo and UFO Yak-3s and Spitfire IX's. Also, damage models don't mean much in a world of 37mm Cobras and 45mm Yaks. I wish every player that got 1-shotted by those got $10 for every time that happens. And yeah, flight model. No. You should look at how much whine there is about flight models on the forums. Actually, there's a dev topic that describes how many planes have only relatively accurate settings. Now, that's a whole lot.

The whine I see here is pretty much the only whine I see consistently on their forums. Initially, I felt the same as a lot of you. Once I learned how to fly, avoid, and reverse, plus aiming well, I average 1200 damage, 3-5 kills, and I usually toss in a few ground units to boot. My P-47's, though they handled like {Scrap} due to an unfinished FM, was a meat grinder, and I did well with them. You evidently did not........

• "Read their forums. Vast difference in public posts' attitude. Mostly because the community isn't polarized like we here at MWO, as the large part of the userbase there is quite content, which is a reflection on Gaijin."
  
  
  
  
  Really? I disagree. There's just as much whine about just as many things, with people simultaneously screaming NERF X and BUFF X in adjacent topics, also multiplied by the fact that those planes really existed, and everyone thinks they know better than Gaijin how it all was in 1940s. Actually, Gaijin follows public opinion a bit too much IMO. Game designers should know better than asking their audience about how their game should work. Isn't that why they get professional education?

Dude, I read them every day. General Discussion, AB Battles, HB Battles, and still, the Academy, plus the Missions. Most common whine: I ain't doing well' kind of like your posts ........

• "It's baffling how in 2013, an IP like MWO can end up like this. WT doesn't even have an IP, it's simply WW2."
  
  
  
  
  The reason MWO is getting so much flak fire is exactly because it's an IP, which wasn't designed to be a realistic game, just an abstract tabletop.

Oh, ok. See, I thought it was 'The Thinking Mans Shooter', and a Mech combat sim. Cleared that up thanks .....



I wish WT was oh so much better than MWO, but it's not. It's got all sorts of problems, and the new research system in 1.37 that means that you'll have to put time into your plane in addition to buying it at quite angry prices (which won't change, despite the additional burden of research) is as questionable, as the decision, to make mixed setups in historical and realistic battles, as opposed to nation- and era-limited setups that exist now in 1.35. Bash PGI whenever you have something to really bash them for, but don't make Gaijin look like saints. MWO, if slowly developed, is just as good (or bad) a game as any other title out there. I'm sorry that you wanted Star Citizen in BT universe. MWO is what it is. And if you can't cope with it, there is always WT, as well as a myriad other games out there.

Summary: Games same age more or less, studio's about the same size more or less, and I have to form a group, click more, and invite people, click more to hit ready, and help us all if I click on something else, 2-3-4 more clicks to get a ready button/Launch button, and have mercy, another Ready button in game. Love our Game Lobby ...... wait ......never mind. How about our tutorials ......

I wanted Mechwarrior, not SC. What I got was ripped off, and an Alpha game.

Ooo look Bullet Points and all.......but way to miss a point. Like, completely clueless.......

So, here's a summary:

Lysander Voidrunner, on 12 December 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

That whole rebutal stinks of putting a spin on the whole thing, Oh, look, they actually have done a ton more than PGI but in reality, the stuff isn't all that mind blowing as the stuff that PGI has done...erm....yeah!!!! If you're going to do a rebutal, at least don't make it sound like you're a shrill. The whole point is that both games have a similar development time, dev team size and ambitions. The only difference is that WT has had enormous success because they've implemented the vast majority of what they intended to whilst MWO has done nothing to that effect save giving us (overpriced) mechs. Actually, as far as we know, and going by the initial sales figures for founders and by extrapolation, Phoenix and mech sales, PGI should be in a very healthy position and should have already pumped out a whole lot of content. This lends more credence to people who think that at least part of PGI's funding and attention is deviated to projects like MWTactics and the 360 port. For the record, MWO doesn't look anything as good as WT in my humble opinion, at least, with that horrible filter on. And remember, I never even played WT, I am sticking with MWO... for how long, that remains to be seen.

MY point was, as both games timeframe and studio's are of approx equal scope, WT has out-delivered (yes, new word) PGI by an extreme amount.

A second point can be gleaned also: I waited for a MW title for 13 years, but, I'm PAYING and PLAYING WT .......and still waiting for a MW title.

See how easy that was? Fixed your rebuttal to boot.

Edited by Ensaine, 13 December 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[DOMDOM]

DOMDOM, on 09 December 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

MWO is dead. They aren't going to close their doors tomorrow but they are definitely circling the drain. It's now a question of how long they can continue to milk what's left of the diehards supplemented by the occasional new player who wanders in for a few hours before giving up.

The problem is you really only get one shot with most folks and by choosing to arbitrarily launch so feature incomplete they squandered all hope of getting this game off the ground. These people aren't coming back.

How long you let them string you along is up to you, but you are deluding yourself if you think pgi is capable of executing this game. At this point there's serious concern that they are just cash grabbing to recoup investments and that there is no long term plan beyond a tearful farewell in the next year or so.

This again.

[Timelordwho]

JDH4mm3r, on 02 December 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Regarding the NEW MAP... if it's in space, what is the outside temp on the surface? According to a website, it all depends on where you are:

Away from everything: -270C

If you're between Earth and Moon, and the Sun is shining on a metal bar, it could get as hot as 240C and as cold as -100C in the shade... so....

if it is indeed colder than frozen city night, I suppose we're to expect to see a return of PPC heavy + ERL heavy Mechs again for just that specific map..........

i'm almost sure you could chain fire a 6ERL stalker on a -270C map...

Note that there is no convection or conduction acting in open space, only blackbody radiation ( heat sinks will have trouble in this environment) so it depends more or less only on how far away from a star they place this thing. There can also be a huge variance based on whether or not there is sunlight on the location.

For example: If pluto didn't have an atmosphere (IE it was in the open star ocean )the T would be ~ 43K which is ~ -230C (it does though so it's ~53K) If we were looking at a mining platform in the asteroid belt T would be -103C to -73C.

[Wolke]

I feel sorry for those who were just trying to do thier jobs properly working on this title, but were unable to do so because of apparenty terrible management and assinine community-relation decisions.

This game has no life left in it - and noone at the controlls with an idea on how to revive it.

Edited by Wolke, 13 December 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[fratzenballermann]

eh.... all this negativity

i'm happy with the game already and looking forward to any new stuff coming in. as long as bugfixing has top priority IMO PGI can take their time, better than rushed content that won't be stable.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

We were happy with the game back in 2012. As time went on and the promises came and went to to-do-later-land, we became a little jaded. I lived through the whole 3pv fiasco without a problem, I lived with the PPC boats well enough but I'm finding myself less and less attracted to the game.

[Ashvins]

I'm still here and still playing, that being said..........

Empty promises.

It has been over a year since the first talk about community warfare started with an estimate of 3 months from open beta. Here we are 9 months PAST that point and it's only in engineering phase of development ????????

UI 2.0 was promised by Jan 2013. Look it's 3 weeks til JAN 2014 and I doubt it will be out by then even.

DX 11 should have been out before open beta, yet nothing still.

Light a fire under the ***** of your programmers or FIRE them and hire people who can do the job already. You've had a mediocre review from all the gaming review sites, been accused PUBLICLY of breaking promises constantly, and have a dwindling player base. The game is slowly going down and I for one don't want to see this happen.

You need to turn it around NOW or eventually you will reap what you sow. Meaning No game,No Company, No job, No money, No home. It's not that hard guy's were not talking quantum physics here. Decide on the features you want, program those features, get the art people to give you a UI for the features, merge the 2 and debug. Working SOLO I could have run out any one of the 3 features listed above in the past year. That's 3 people to get out the features you've promised to us your PAYING and non-paying customers. I know there are more than 3 people who work for PGI so why don't we have them?

The only thing we as a community can think is that your taking our money (for those of us who have given it) and using your assets (programmers) to give us EYE CANDY we can wait on, to avoid doing any real work on the features promised. Which many of us, myself included, started playing this game for.

Please get to work, fire the slackers, and give us the game we have been waiting for.

[Sneakypoop]

Arkus Bethla, on 02 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

(I am with the respondent that is hearing impaired, so if I may paraphrase the excellent post)


Okay, let me be frank and to the point:

I'm NOT deaf.

Yes, I'M serious.

so i'll repeat: I'm NOT deaf but reading a text document outline is superior to a video report in every way.

Thanks, I was planing on saying the exact same.

Especially true when it comes to the "news" format. I am fine with any text feed.
I bet you can put your time in much more efficient and useful work.

Edited by Sneakypop, 13 December 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Correction, it's going on 13 months past open beta and 3 months past launch. The game feels as if it's still in Alpha. I remember telling myself that at launch they would have a big surprise for us. Hell, it's "LAUNCH" so they have to launch something, right? I know I wasn't alone in that. It would be nonsensical to think otherwise. We did, in fact, get a big surprise. A map, admittedly, one that has generally been well received. But that's it. What we also got is more of the same promises that were made a year and a half before. That CW was just around the corner, whilst in reality, not even having been started yet. We were supposed to get UI 2.0 a few weeks after launch. September 17th. That's been over 12 weeks and now we're told the USER INTERFACE is going to come out after new year? This is beyond unacceptable. It's a fiasco that Russ allows this kind of pervasive and wanton disregard for promises to occur. This is why the vast majority of the people that really care about the franchise distrust PGI. It's also where people extrapolate that PGI's attention is elsewhere and that they're using MWO as a way of funding other projects that they see as more important.

I'll be blunt. Living legends did more in a shorter space of time, delivering us more, better content with a far more concrete and tangible plan of expansion. Sure, their art wasn't anywhere near MWO's but then again, their art department was held together by duct tape and a shoe-string. Russ, do us all a favour and hire the people who did LL as your core staff. That MIGHT save this side-project of yours.

[Heffay]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 13 December 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I'll be blunt. Living legends did more in a shorter space of time, delivering us more, better content with a far more concrete and tangible plan of expansion. Sure, their art wasn't anywhere near MWO's but then again, their art department was held together by duct tape and a shoe-string. Russ, do us all a favour and hire the people who did LL as your core staff. That MIGHT save this side-project of yours.

Living legends had everything necessary to make an incredibly successful game except for players.

The only thing PGI seems to have is a lot of players.

[Silent]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 13 December 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

I'll be blunt. Living legends did more in a shorter space of time, delivering us more, better content with a far more concrete and tangible plan of expansion. Sure, their art wasn't anywhere near MWO's but then again, their art department was held together by duct tape and a shoe-string. Russ, do us all a favour and hire the people who did LL as your core staff. That MIGHT save this side-project of yours.

Sorry, pretty sure the Living Legends crew either have jobs at Crytek or Cloud Imperium right now.

Anyway, even if you could hire a bunch of them that's not going to magically make this game better or make things come out faster. It's obvious that the issues with this game are issues that wind through many different aspects of the company, and hiring some artists or coders isn't going to stop that from continuing its course.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

I know, Silent, but it couldn't do any harm, could it? To be entirely frank, it's just the utter incompetence at every level that gets to me. If PGI was like any place I ever worked at, these companies would be out of business by now with their CEO's replaced ten times over and the staff having been fired long ago.

[Deathlike]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 13 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I know, Silent, but it couldn't do any harm, could it? To be entirely frank, it's just the utter incompetence at every level that gets to me. If PGI was like any place I ever worked at, these companies would be out of business by now with their CEO's replaced ten times over and the staff having been fired long ago.

Would you and others like to make projections or make a bet on that? Otherwise, a new drinking game can be made!

Note: I completely agree with you, but that's the only form of response I can give you without trying to get ragey about it.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 December 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[Heffay]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 13 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I know, Silent, but it couldn't do any harm, could it? To be entirely frank, it's just the utter incompetence at every level that gets to me. If PGI was like any place I ever worked at, these companies would be out of business by now with their CEO's replaced ten times over and the staff having been fired long ago.

And yet they've survived 13 years in a cutthroat industry through one of the worst economic downturns since the GD.

Yup... must be a poorly run company.

Edited by Heffay, 13 December 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

So has AGI. Your point being? Besides, having success with Bass Hunter and expecting success with a F2P Mechwarrior game is like expecting Honda to make great Jet Engines because they know how to do ok Car Engines.

Actually, come to think about it, since PGI has 0 experience with this kind of environment and IGP is the one who specializes in "AAA free to play", I am inclined to think that it is in fact IGP that pulls the strings and takes design decisions based on short-term economic models.

Edited by Lysander Voidrunner, 13 December 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

Heffay, on 13 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Living legends had everything necessary to make an incredibly successful game except for players.

The only thing PGI seems to have is a lot of players.

"Seems to" is a vital part of this. We still ain't got **** to tell us what the player numbers are like.

[Heffay]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 13 December 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

Actually, come to think about it, since PGI has 0 experience with this kind of environment and IGP is the one who specializes in "AAA free to play", I am inclined to think that it is in fact IGP that pulls the strings and takes design decisions based on short-term economic models.

And yet here we are, moving forward to UI 2.0 and CW.

[Pope RW]

Lots of tease with little substance