229 replies to this topic

[sneeking]

im attached to my wang

[BSK]

Hard to agree on the Yen Lo Wang. It is hard to cripple and endures at the hulk waltz in the end game when all mechs lost their arms and circle around each other. I put 3 consumables in the 3 modules and still make 100k to 150k credits.

[Victor Morson]

Modo44, on 03 December 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Having so few 2s means you did not spend time to learn (not master in the game, learn) the weaker mechs. It completely misses the importance of the brain behind the controls. A good pilot will own you in an Awesome, and a bad one will suck in a Carrylander.

If two pilots of equal skill encounter each other and one is in an Awesome and one in a Highlander, the Awesome pilot isn't going to even hurt the other guy. This whole "You can pilot junk if you are l337 enough!" logic is really amusing and has been here since day 1.

VIPER2207, on 03 December 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

i really don't want to start the discussion about Awesomes and Dragons again, but placing these two chassis on the same level with the Locust is a bit harsh, isn't it?

My logic was at least the Locust is only going to set someone back about the cost of two AC/20s where as an Awesome is more expensive than a Cataphract, but I agree, I would rather take an Awesome or Dragon over a Locust any day. It might deserve 0 stars.

sneeking, on 03 December 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

totaly wrong about centurion dont diss the right arm and you didn't even mention the wang !

Arms on the Centurions are like damage magnets. They are very, very easy to hit. If you put any major amounts of firepower on the arm (The AL can get away with a couple meds or something) you are both having to spend tonnage on to armor it, but also, accept that those guns are going to be gone very rapidly into the fight. The Yen-Lo-Wang is a speed bump if as veteran player runs into it because we just gun the right arm off and leave it to rot.

The big advantage of the 9A, for example, is that it can afford to not spend armor on either arm (or put a minor amount on as a soak) and then use them to eat the first blows.

sneeking, on 03 December 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

could this all just be subjective ?

The vast majority of it is in line with current competitive configurations, so no, this is a pretty objective list. It only veers away from that when you cross into "trash 'mechs."

CarnageINC, on 03 December 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

I would take a lot of this with a grain of salt, I mean the man can't even remember the Trebuchet's in his list. Some people can make what Victor says is a bad mech shine. It really comes down to play style and outfitting IMO.

Corrected oversight. Given I own all four mastered Trebuchets, I assure you this was just an oversight. And no matter how much you polish a **** to make it shine, ultimately, that's what it is.

I cannot count the number of times I've dealt with new pilots who insist they can make, say, Awesomes work only to watch them consistently scrape the bottom of the damage charts.

VIPER2207, on 03 December 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

The CN9-YLW is one of the fastest (maybe THE fastest, not sure) AC20 you can get, this fact should count to the calculation.

Blackjack is a far, far better high speed AC/20 platform. So is the Treb 7K. Neither have the "massively easy to remove" arm weakness of the Centurion.

Also, the Shadow Hawk.

RamsoPanzer, on 03 December 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:

Yen-lo-wang 1.5 stars? fails... Really, one of the most useful mechs, used a lot in top competition matches.

hahahaha... no.

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 December 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[arghmace]

Victor Morson, on 03 December 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Blackjack is a far, far better high speed AC/20 platform. So is the Treb 7K. Neither have the "massively easy to remove" arm weakness of the Centurion.

Also, the Shadow Hawk.

AC20-Wang goes 106.9 km/h. AC20-BJ goes 93.1 km/h. That there is a huge difference. AC20-SHD is even slower than BJ and Treb the slowest of them all. Wang is an entirely different speed category than any other AC20 mech.

Edited by arghmace, 03 December 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Victor Morson]

sneeking, on 03 December 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

no he skipped the wang, he didn't even call it a centurion and it didn't even get a write up.

It's in Hero 'Mechs at the end.

Zerberus, on 03 December 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Nice guide.. "somewhat" biased but otherwise nice...

But still, Eff you, Vic!! I was so waiting to see your rant about how ghost heat makes the Boar`s Head and Misery {Scrap}, but you totally disappointed me on that one.

Fixed and added. Both got decent ratings, actually.

sneeking, on 03 December 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

put a lbx in with an xl300 engine and burn your amo off before losing your arm,

"Make yourself easy to kill and fire wildly until you have no ammo left." I see. Tactics! ... ?

Buckminster, on 03 December 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Same with the Wang. In the right hands it's fantastic. For new players, it's two medium lasers in an armless mech.

There are no right hands for the Wang.

Literally, because they are always blown off!

VXJaeger, on 03 December 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Seems that OP ain't fan of Kintaros, have they killed you too many times in your Jenner

They are absolutely inferior to the 2D2. Notably I do give an exception to the KTO-18 as a light hunter, even put it in the description. It is the ONLY thing they do well, and only that one model, and again it's outclassed by a far better chassis already.

sneeking, on 03 December 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

maybe one day he can get on the wrong end of my wang while im having a good moment

It's hard to tell if I'm looking down your barrel when your arm is on the ground.

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 December 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Victor Morson]

BSK, on 03 December 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Hard to agree on the Yen Lo Wang. It is hard to cripple and endures at the hulk waltz in the end game when all mechs lost their arms and circle around each other. I put 3 consumables in the 3 modules and still make 100k to 150k credits.

That is the exact reverse of the problems with the Wang - it's way too easy to cripple. It'll be down to 2 ML or 1 LL in almost no time.

Compared to the 9A, which is like a Terminator, well.. there is no comparison.

[Alaskan Nobody]

sneeking, on 03 December 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

could this all just be subjective ?

It is Victor saying it so as everyone knows^tm you can take it as gospel truth.
/sarcasm_off

CarnageINC, on 03 December 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

I would take a lot of this with a grain metric ton of salt

FTFY

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf builds bad 'mechs.

Just saying. If you want to know what the best 'mechs are, this really is a pretty accurate list.

[Victor Morson]

It's too early to rank the Oxide yet, but things are looking like another 5/5 Hero. I think it's a safe bet if you're curious.

No jump jets is a drawback, but 4 Streaks is really awesome.

[August55]

I dunno about you, but I love my Locusts D:

Getting 340 damage in a match in a LCT-3S is very satisfying.

Edited by August55, 03 December 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 03 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Shar Wolf builds bad 'mechs.

Because mockery ALWAYS^tm proves your point.

[Atlai]

August55, on 03 December 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I dunno about you, but I love my Locusts D:

So do i, but they're definitely not a go to light for beginners.

I also like Dragons

[Victor Morson]

Shar Wolf, on 03 December 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

Because mockery ALWAYS^tm proves your point.

Stated fact isn't mockery. You tend to recommend terrible 'mechs.

August55, on 03 December 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I dunno about you, but I love my Locusts D:

If you enjoy them because they're a fun gimmick/handicap, that's cool. It doesn't make them recommendation worthy, though.

I've said before and I'll say again: If they release an Urbanmech I am totally buying it. It will be horrible of course, and I'll never seriously field it, but by God I'll run it in pugs. Doesn't mean I'd tell people to get one too.

Edited by Victor Morson, 03 December 2013 - 06:39 PM.

[luxebo]

I think this guide is overall better than the first. I see a lot of arguing which mech is better than which, however, Victor is only recommending what a beginner should get, not what the bunch of us that have been here since closed beta (or even from open beta) but to those that just finished their Cadet Bonuses. I don't agree with everything Victor has said in this guide, but I think he is leading them to the best starting direction. On the contrary, while a lot of the ratings of each mech are well-placed, the players shouldn't be restricted by Victor's guide from, say a Locust if the player wants to play it. I don't agree with everything Victor has said in the guide, but I think it's a good lead to the better starting point.

Edit: Victor, can you potentially look at rating all the variants of each mech? That would provide even more insight. I appreciate your effort for continuously trying to give advice to the beginners even though not all of us always agree with you!

Edited by luxebo, 03 December 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 03 December 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Stated fact isn't mockery. You tend to recommend terrible 'mechs.



If you enjoy them because they're a fun gimmick/handicap, that's cool. It doesn't make them recommendation worthy, though.

I've said before and I'll say again: If they release an Urbanmech I am totally buying it. It will be horrible of course, and I'll never seriously field it, but by God I'll run it in pugs. Doesn't mean I'd tell people to get one too.

I saw something someone said in another thread, and I thought of you, good buddy.

anubis969, on 03 December 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

Translation: "Stop liking what I don't like!"

Look mate, at the end of the day you are entitled to your opinion but so is everyone else. I have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing with me, in fact I welcome it, what I do have an issue with is you trying to force your opinion on other people. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. It is no more right or wrong than anyone else's in this thread. If you wish to disagree with someone, go ahead, a forum is a place of discussion after all but if you want anyone to take you seriously and show you respect you need to show them some.

Edit: forgot to separate the two quotes here.

luxebo, on 03 December 2013 - 07:05 PM, said:

I think this guide is overall better than the first. I see a lot of arguing which mech is better than which, however, Victor is only recommending what a beginner should get, not what the bunch of us that have been here since closed beta (or even from open beta) but to those that just finished their Cadet Bonuses. I don't agree with everything Victor has said in this guide, but I think he is leading them to the best starting direction. On the contrary, while a lot of the ratings of each mech are well-placed, the players shouldn't be restricted by Victor's guide from, say a Locust if the player wants to play it. I don't agree with everything Victor has said in the guide, but I think it's a good lead to the better starting point.

While I apparently agree less with Vic than Lux does, this was well put.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 03 December 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[Mycrus]

and here i am to rain on Vic's parade (yet again)..

listen up kids... don't believe everything you read on the interwebs!!!1

since i know Vic hates screenshots i made several of them...

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Boar's Head - [3.5 Star]
Atlas
The Boar's Head is a fairly decent Atlas, in particular when it runs 6 Medium Laser configurations. It's easily one of the better models of the chassis, really. The downside, of course, is that Atlas are generally unseen sights outside of the DDC, as anything the Atlas can do, the Highlander can do better except ECM. If you really enjoy Atlas, this isn't a bad PUG 'mech, but you're likely to get limited use out of it in serious teams. If Ghost Heat were removed, 6 Large Lasers could be a devastating configuration for this chassis but is currently not recommended.

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Battlemaster - [3.5 Stars]
If Ghost Heat were to go away, the BattleMaster would be a 5 Star Chassis in my opinion, though many debate the Stalker would continue to reign supreme. Either way, with the current metagame, the Battlemaster is merely a faster and inferior Stalker. The Battlemaster's status could easily change with the flow of the metagame so don't count it entirely out yet.

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Awesome - [1 Star]
The Awesome is a tragedy if you enjoyed the TT version. Suffering from Ghost Heat restrictions in it's load out, huge torsos, a slow maximum engine outside of the inferior 9M and a terrible hero, the Awesome is all around a huge failure. Avoid this chassis at all costs.

Pretty Baby - [1 Star]
Awesome
The Pretty Baby is an inferior Awesome 9M Hardpoint wise, with a special paint job. While it can move much faster than the typical Awesome, it can still be kept up with by Victors that carry far, far more effective firepower. Avoid this one entirely. One of the worst heroes, on one of the worst chassis.

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Commando - [2.5 Star]
The Commando isn't terrible, for 25 tons. The problem is right now, 25 tons isn't something you ever need to even consider. Outclassed horribly by 35 ton 'mechs (and with good reason - that's nearly a third bigger!), the Commando can still mount some somewhat usable Streak configurations. It will never stand up to a Jenner in a fight, and without jets, it's too easy for heavies to strike down as well. I'd avoid this one.

Death's Knell - [2 Star]
Commando
There's nothing really wrong with this hero except it's a Commando. There's no getting around that. It was doomed from the start for being too light to cut it in even moderate weight drops.

the death knell is my "go-to" mech for 12-man drops...

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Dragon - [1 Star]
With the exception of the Flame, the Dragon is the worst chassis in the game. It's hard points are placed so you can't use them effectively, the hit boxes are bad, and it's just generally terrible. It also works poorly with Gauss now. Avoid this heavy at all costs.

Fang - [1 Star]
Dragon
Released as the "Twin Dragon" with the Flame, this is more like the movie Twins. Everywhere the Flame goes right to exceed it's class, the Fang goes wrong, ultimately being a regular dragon with a dumb skin. Skip this 'mech.

btw, see the other screenshots as well of my guild mates running dragons...

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Yen-Lo-Wang - [1.5 Star]
Centurion
The YLW goes wrong in exactly one place: It has Centurion arms. Centurion Arms are notoriously easy to hit and are a good reason for the 'mechs legendary durability. It's also why all the successful designs don't put any heavy guns in the arms - no guns at all most of the time. Long story short is if any experience player sees a YLW, they know it has 90% of it's firepower in an easily destroyed area and will cripple you instantly.

haven't whipped my WANG out in a long long time... 1 drop last night...

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Trebuchet - [4 Star]
The Trebuchet hit boxes and hardpoint layout make it slightly inferior to the Centurion, despite it's jumping capability. It's not a terrible 'mech and can carry similar loadouts to the Cent, but without the Cent's durability, it merely falls slightly short of being an equal replacement. One strength the Trebuchet does have is the 3C, which is the best 50 tonner that can move at Jenner speeds. Outside of leagues with chassis restrictions, however, I cannot recommend most Trebuchets for serious games.
Popular Configs: 3 SRM6 3 ML, 4 ML 2 Streak2, 2 LRM15 1 TAG

2 things in this post that i agree with Vic... trebs are good... if you can't do well in a Treb, you are a baaaaaaaaad pilot...

Spoiler

Victor Morson, on 02 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Locust - [0.5 Star]
This is the worst light 'mech. The forced heat sink minimum means that you can't even fill all the hard points on half the models. It's easy to hit and pops with minimal effort. An awful 'mech that you should totally avoid, always.

this is the 2nd thing... Locusts are hard to pilot... that said, i have a guild mate that has positive KDR on all his variants and sometimes... just sometimes... you can pull off memorable games like this...

Spoiler

so wut is the moral of the story boys & girls... don't believe in the meta... after the pee pee cee & goose nurfs, there isn't a "real" meta... even the sevem thwee thwee charlee carrylander's AC+2PPC build is and can be countered by either LURMs / LIGHTs / BRAWLERS...

btw, as you can see i have baaad 260ms ping... and i use joystickzzz (well a full hotas, foot pedals + throttle)... if i can achieve that kind of scorez anybody can...

[Tekadept]

Don't be a Dragon Hater First drop in one tonight

[sneeking]

"Make yourself easy to kill and fire wildly until you have no ammo left." I see. Tactics! ... ?

yes victor, I use its speed ( 300xl + tweak ) its fast ( 2xbasics ) its agile ( 2x adv sensor stacked with beagle ) it sees for miles holds locks through mountains at 1.6km.

the tactic is run ahead like a light get loads of locks pop up and laser a bit ( gets the attention of both sides drawing them together ) then dissappear back among the blob, then use terrain and speed.

once introductions are over im offen comming from behind an engaged friendly towards the enemy at full speed usually go up and off a wall that the enemy is trying to use so wont get surrounded, lbx and laser in face ( point blank range ) on way up and past. lbx and laser in back on way down ( point blank again ) and now im behind him while he is still busy with friendly lol.

love using the terrain especialy jumping off stuff rock n roll wrestling style from top rope lol guns blasing mid air

wang is supreme fun and you'd be surprised how often i survive the match ( out of ammo but both arms still attached ) die a lot too but thats to be expected

[Kotzi]

I would rather point the essential different playing-style than create a sentimental ranking. There rather is a fitting Mechchassis for each playing-style rather than saying this is better than that. Hell, even a light pilot could kill a Highlander if he keeps outta sight, in his back, out of his fire range etc.

[Ewigan]

Nice, well placed out list Victor.
I do not fully agree with you of course, my two fav. heroes are very low on your list as they are the TDK and the WANG, i wholeheartedly agree that i wouldn't recommend those for new players.
For 12 mans in a skilled team... Well, if you are capable of keeping your arm alive and land constant hits with your wand i will take ya with me. the TDK.... sad to say, but bein 20kp/h faster then a jenner doesn't magically give you JJs.