229 replies to this topic

[King Arthur IV]

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT AWESOMENESSSSS

Spoiler

and I haven't even brought out the OP varients.

L2P, it aint easy but it sure is worth it.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 04 December 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Victor Morson]

King Arthur IV, on 04 December 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT AWESOMENESSSSS

...

L2P, it aint easy but it sure is worth it.

1: Scores don't mean anything in a pug except that people stopped and let you shoot them.
2: Those aren't very good numbers, doubly so for an assault.

I mean comparison, I can pull nearly 1k damage in a 55 ton Shadow Hawk far more consistently than you can limp in with 500ish. In fact, I've seen much higher damage totals from Jenners.

Finally remember the Awesome's big problem is huge hitboxes and bad engine caps, meaning if your teammates draw more fire than you, yeah you can do damage. But that's about it.

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 December 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Ewigan, on 04 December 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

For 12 mans in a skilled team... Well, if you are capable of keeping your arm alive and land constant hits with your wand i will take ya with me.

I'm guessing you don't get to play in many of the 12 man leagues, but nobody and I mean nobody fields the YLW. On the rare occasion it shows up it really does go like this:

"Yen Lo [Charlie], get his arm."
-3 seconds later-
"Got his gun, neutered."
"NEXT TARGET..."

Tekadept, on 04 December 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Don't be a Dragon Hater First drop in one tonight

This is how all standard engine 'mechs should look at the end of a good fight!

[Victor Morson]

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

yes victor, I use its speed ( 300xl + tweak ) its fast ( 2xbasics ) its agile ( 2x adv sensor stacked with beagle ) it sees for miles holds locks through mountains at 1.6km.

XL Centurions are dead Centurions, even after the hitbox change.

It cannot hold a lock through a mountain no matter the situation. You are literally mistaking teammate locks as something you are doing.

Did you just say you run 2 adv. sesimics? What?

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

the tactic is run ahead like a light get loads of locks pop up and laser a bit ( gets the attention of both sides drawing them together ) then dissappear back among the blob, then use terrain and speed.

This doesn't work. Why? Every light is faster than you. If you run off to "get attention" you get swarmed. The end.

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

once introductions are over im offen comming from behind an engaged friendly towards the enemy at full speed usually go up and off a wall that the enemy is trying to use so wont get surrounded, lbx and laser in face ( point blank range ) on way up and past. lbx and laser in back on way down ( point blank again ) and now im behind him while he is still busy with friendly lol.

... LBXs are a terrible weapon for this.

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

love using the terrain especialy jumping off stuff rock n roll wrestling style from top rope lol guns blasing mid air

In a 'mech without jump jets.

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

wang is supreme fun and you'd be surprised how often i survive the match ( out of ammo but both arms still attached ) die a lot too but thats to be expected

When you fight super low ELO people who always shoot center, yeah. This will happen.

Kotzi, on 04 December 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

I would rather point the essential different playing-style than create a sentimental ranking. There rather is a fitting Mechchassis for each playing-style rather than saying this is better than that. Hell, even a light pilot could kill a Highlander if he keeps outta sight, in his back, out of his fire range etc.

Nobody argues that a light can kill an assault, and there is a reason there are 5 star 'mechs in each weight class on the list.

However, this is not "sentimental ranking." If two pilots of equal skill clash in a similar weight range but with mismatched 'mechs, the bad 'mech is not walking away. i.e. Commando vs Jenner is going Jenner every single time. Same with Victor vs Awesome, Shadow Hawk vs Dragon, you name it.

[Victor Morson]

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

and here i am to rain on Vic's parade (yet again)..

listen up kids... don't believe everything you read on the interwebs!!!1

since i know Vic hates screenshots i made several of them...

First:
For those that haven't read it:
Why PUG screenshots mean less than nothing.

Second:
I specifically state that the Atlas is a decent cash grinder and all around not bad 'mech, and would work great in pugs. It was rated a 3.5 because if you're doing anything other than solo dropping, taking an Atlas and NOT bringing a DDC is hurting your whole team. Thus it is a 3.5 'mech that gets a rather glowing review to suggest it for a money maker anyway. Nothing you've shown me is inconsistent with that review.

Third:
I can regularly pull those kinds of numbers with a Shadow Hawk for 45 less tons.

Honestly, my parade is looking pretty sunny.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

... More screenshots of the battlemaster ...

Again, any 'mech - even an AC/2 Raven - can pull massive damage numbers in a pug game with some luck. Many 'mechs that can score in 500+ damage consistently in pugs end up not even getting enough shots off to break 100 in a serious game.

But like the Atlas, the BattleMaster is rated as "slightly above average" which would 3 and I hardly say that it cannot work in pugs. Are there better options? Yes, there are, and the list reflects that.

Is the BattleMaster something I talk tons of {Scrap} about and put next to the Golden Boy? Absolutely not.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

btw, see the other screenshots as well of my guild mates running dragons...

This does bring up an interesting point. Most of Mycrus's runs have been in a group with his team. This is important because I have seen really good teams take pathetic joke builds on purpose and pull even higher damage numbers, because when you have more people with you, dealing huge damage is far, far easier.

Those shots are really all absolutely invalid as proof of anything except that there were a few people who didn't know how to play on the field, and that the 'mechs that I think are decent to good are in fact decent to good, but not great.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

haven't whipped my WANG out in a long long time... 1 drop last night...

See above on all of this. If someone had been awake this screenshot would show something under 200 because they'd taken your arm.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

2 things in this post that i agree with Vic... trebs are good... if you can't do well in a Treb, you are a baaaaaaaaad pilot...

Trebs have been 2nd fiddle to Cents for ages, and are now 3rd fiddle to Shadow Hawks. I own all of them and think the 3C is still the best high-speed 50 tonner - far better than the 9D for the role - but I cannot recommend tham over either chassis right now.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

They were always second fiddle to the Centurion, and are now third fiddle to the Shadow Hawk, though. I like Trebs. I think the 3C is an exceptionally good fast-50 tonner for leagues that need it. I won't recommend anyone buy them over a Hawk though, ever.this is the 2nd thing... Locusts are hard to pilot... that said, i have a guild mate that has positive KDR on all his variants and sometimes... just sometimes... you can pull off memorable games like this...

See the below comment.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

so wut is the moral of the story boys & girls... don't believe in the meta...

Or you could do the right thing and don't believe a bunch of damage screenshots taken from inside 4-man groups in PUG games.

I am absolutely serious when I say you can take JOKE builds, and as long as you control one third of the team, you're going to get exceptionally high damage factors no matter what you are driving. It doesn't mean you would not have been far more effective in better equipment. At all.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

after the pee pee cee & goose nurfs, there isn't a "real" meta... even the sevem thwee thwee charlee carrylander's AC+2PPC build is and can be countered by either LURMs / LIGHTs / BRAWLERS...

2 PPC 2 AC/5 beats LRMs and most brawling configs. Also you don't think 2 PPC 1 AC/20 can brawl? What?

LRMs are almost never, ever used in a serious game either. I personally have a theory about a way to make them work effectively in a serious match, but it's a hard sell and positively is not the norm.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

the death knell is my "go-to" mech for 12-man drops...

If you think the Death's Knell is even worth the price of a crippled Jenner, you are wrong. Again, I say the Death's Kneel is a great hero.. for the Commando, which ties it to 2 points. You stand absolutely no chance against a Jenner and frankly the Oxide will just make the Commando's fate painful.

Mycrus, on 04 December 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

btw, as you can see i have baaad 260ms ping... and i use joystickzzz (well a full hotas, foot pedals + throttle)... if i can achieve that kind of scorez anybody can...

You're right. Anybody can.

I mean that. All it takes is:

• Get into a four man
  
• Play PUGs until you hit a really bad team
  
• Focus fire somewhat
  
• Revel in that fact your damage numbers are higher than a low of newbies in the game running even worse gear

In fact, even if you solo drop all the time, you can cherry pick pretty easily.


The fact is if your four man ran into a 4-man of similar weight classes from my 5-star list, you guys would be deader than Disco.

EDIT: PS if anyone is going "Where's your screenshots?" this is just from a build I was toying with last night. Notably the whole team is piloting a sea of garbage 'mechs so the outcome wasn't surprising. I'd had another kill but finally ran out of ammo.

Spoiler

It means absolutely nothing but at least it was a solo drop, from a test build, and not really cherry picked since the whole reason I took it in the first place was testing my damage exclusively against AMS targets - I'd have done more if I went after non-AMS.

And it still has higher damage than every single screenshot you've posted including your assaults that had team backup.

Oh yeah, I'm still grinding this 'mech so it wasn't even elite yet. God help my targets then

PS: That YLW performance is way closer to the norm. His arm blew off immediately after first contact.

Edited by Victor Morson, 04 December 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[sneeking]

absolutely victor, in a mech without jj

running amok in puggers so I can focus purely on fun factor where I owe nobody anything and their win or loss is not a concern.

I am with them but not of them.

of course different behaviour would be expected in an organized team environment.

[sneeking]

mostly what I get from your list is discouragement to be creative, experimentatio is one of the most satisfying parts of the game.the last thing we want to see is new people following lists based on opinion and forming clone armys so all people are doing the same thing playing the same way with same combinations.

sad and booring it would become

[Victor Morson]

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

absolutely victor, in a mech without jj

running amok in puggers so I can focus purely on fun factor where I owe nobody anything and their win or loss is not a concern.

I am with them but not of them.

of course different behaviour would be expected in an organized team environment.

And people wonder why I say my "ELO doesn't work because of how random the games are and how little factor you have in them solo." This, this right here, is the guy who gets everyone killed every time.

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

mostly what I get from your list is discouragement to be creative, experimentatio is one of the most satisfying parts of the game.the last thing we want to see is new people following lists based on opinion and forming clone armys so all people are doing the same thing playing the same way with same combinations.

sad and booring it would become

The more people run the best stuff the more it encourages other things to be buffed so there are more options for "best stuff."

This list doesn't discourage you from buying an Atlas. It just says they aren't the best and they're not.

[luxebo]

Guys, once again I don't agree with all the things in Victor's guide, but you have to understand that he created this for the new players, and not for the veterans that have been here for ages. I personally think that a well-made Awesome/Dragon/Locust can still be used well, but it definitely won't be as good of a start for those barely finishing their Cadet Bonuses versus a Highlander/Cataphract/Shadow Hawk/Jenner.

[sneeking]

I realize such statements will be unpopular with some, but simply put if winning matters you will be on a team not dropping with randoms.
if you are solo and this behaviour is getting to you then make an effort find a team.
I am still assisting by making kills doing damage its just while im out doing my own thing been killed myself is par for the course solo drops are the only mode available for casual fun and untill an arena style death match arrives people will use whats available.

[Victor Morson]

sneeking, on 04 December 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

I am still assisting by making kills doing damage its just while im out doing my own thing been killed myself is par for the course

[Tekadept]

Victor Morson, on 04 December 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

The more people run the best stuff the more it encourages other things to be buffed so there are more options for "best stuff."
This list doesn't discourage you from buying an Atlas. It just says they aren't the best and they're not.

I'm not a fan of atlas's, but they are far from being sub par.
Nothing wrong with XL Centurions either, They ran perfectly find in 8mans, and still do in 12 mans. But you got killed in one once so it must be bad?

So in a nutshell, If "you" are {Scrap} at piloting a mech chassis, the chassis is {Scrap}.. What do they say about a tradesman blaming his tools?

Edited by Tekadept, 04 December 2013 - 05:37 PM.

[Gralzeim]

This really shouldn't be in the Newbie section. Like the previous lists, it's aimed at people wanting to get into the unofficial player-run tournaments etc. It's not for new players who will be pugging 99% of the time until they find people to run with regularly.

"But PUGs don't matter because anything works!" This is true...if your skill is high enough. What I'm saying is, this list is biased, assuming it's aimed at new players who will be pugging.

it's more of a list aimed at intermediate but not veteran players. Folks who are past the beginner stage and are now looking to optimize their gameplay in accordance with the game's current balance.

Remember when PPC+Gauss Cataphract 3Ds were said to be the 'best' 3D build? I tried that a little bit, it's much more difficult to use properly for an average player. I went back to my 4 ML+AC/20 setup. It's the only thing that's worked well for me consistently on that mech.

I guess my point is that not everything that works for the top of the top veteran elite players, works well for less experienced players. It's something that needs to be taken into account when giving new players advice. Applies to most games, really. New players don't need to know about the endgame (i.e. top end competitive play) when they're still learning.

Edited by Gralzeim, 04 December 2013 - 05:41 PM.

[Mycrus]

Victor Morson, on 04 December 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

I am absolutely serious when I say you can take JOKE builds, and as long as you control one third of the team, you're going to get exceptionally high damage factors no matter what you are driving. It doesn't mean you would not have been far more effective in better equipment. .

And bingo Vic finally is starting to see the light... Maybe just maybe after crossing an equipment treshold of say the "locust", pilot skill and teamwork is more important than any magical meta build...

Don't be dissing my TDK, I won 5 of the last
Series of 7 12-man matches I had.. The last 2 matches I was tired and wanted to call quits but they didn't have any replacements.. I haz video evidence if you want..

I also seem to recall beating you and your unit in 12-manz just with comstar pugs.. Again I haz video evidence just askz..

I roughly play only 6 drops a night before calling it quits and those shots were taken in the last 2-3 weeks so it aint cherry picking Brah..

Let's make this discussion interesting and post full base and mech stats.. I'm average Joe joystick so I'm sure the meta wizzard that is Mr. Morson will stomp me resoundedly...

Wadda u say Vic, game?

[Grrzoot]

Pretty decent start guide to get people moving in a direction of choice. I mean if you look at this and go buy a mech off the list as your first choice and hate it, well it really doesn't get a whole lot better and it can give people an idea of what mechs are considered good and give them a chance at trying them out vs buying ten diff chassis to find one you like, and then isn't used much.

And while I don't agree with everything I do agree with a lot. We run a bit of competitive drops and quite a few of the people i play with and against use these mechs. At that tier they don't use them because everyone else is, it's because players, after playing sooo many different mechs and loadout and trials and errors, they just gravitate to these mechs because they fill that specific role better than, or equal too, other mechs in that chassis line up.

And kintaro was pretty spot on, after playing with them for a couple days I mastered out the 18 and sold all the rest. Haven't regretted it since.

[sneeking]

in honor of victor when I return home this evening the 2xmpl shall be swapped out of wangs ct in favour of 2xflamer

[Mycrus]

Btw, work with your pugs and get to post 12-0 matches too... Regardless of the mech you riding..

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[Victor Morson]

Tekadept, on 04 December 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of atlas's, but they are far from being sub par.

Compared to Highlanders and Victors they are.

Tekadept, on 04 December 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Nothing wrong with XL Centurions either, They ran perfectly find in 8mans, and still do in 12 mans.

Nope.

Tekadept, on 04 December 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

But you got killed in one once so it must be bad?

I only run across them as victims.

Tekadept, on 04 December 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

So in a nutshell, If "you" are {Scrap} at piloting a mech chassis, the chassis is {Scrap}.. What do they say about a tradesman blaming his tools?

You'ved already failed as a pilot before you even get into the sim when you chose a bad 'mech, really, unless you are doing so knowingly as a handicap.

[Tekadept]

Victor Morson, on 04 December 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

....

All of your statements can be answered with

"IN YOUR OPINION"
Just because you are a {Scrap} pilot or come across {Scrap} pilots in non meta mechs doesn't mean everyone else is and the mech is bad.

Edited by Tekadept, 04 December 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[White Panther]

Lol Victor how are you always getting so much heat from these frankenmech players, you must almost be going nuts by now.