44 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

The Blackjack meta has been AC20 + Mlas for months. Where have you been?

[Diego Angelus]

I hate idea of silly builds that doesn't make any sense I mean hunchback has that big shoulder for a reason and yet BJ can mount same weapon in a freaking arm , I love it but it doesn't make sense and I'm all for harder hardpoint restrictions.

[Fate 6]

Jazzbandit1313, on 03 December 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Ok sure maybe it's standard for a hunchy sure, but now everyone thinks that because one build is successful with the AC/20, then that's what we should use on our mechs because maybe its the medium class "standard"

The standard, really? I have 16 different medium chassis, and I've got 3 of them using AC20s (I'd load up the same build as the champion BJ if I wanted to get the right XL engine).

I've been using a lot of my AC20 mechs recently, but that's just because of my preference. I miss my SRMs, so I've turned to the next best brawling weapon. Lasers are garbage, so what other choice to I have? AC10s are incredibly weight inefficient for a medium mech, and LB10-X is just not good. Gauss is well...it makes me sad now. So, AC20. Old faithful.

So my question is, you'd rather mediums conform to the meta of AC5/PPC/LL than man up and get in close?

[Don Ino]

Sorry but the meta is always going to involve high alpha/ direct fire. Better aim = Better killing effeciency = LESS damage per kill. Hence why teams like SJR and SOK do so well.

Edited by Don Ino, 04 December 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Fate 6, on 04 December 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

So my question is, you'd rather mediums conform to the meta of AC5/PPC/LL than man up and get in close?

Well maybe that would be good who knows. (mannig up has nothing to do with weapon choice) I'd also like to see lots of pulse and AC/2 builds. I don't want 70% of all mediums using the same setup or similar. and you may only use 3 AC/20 builds, but newbies see that and they slap it on everything.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jazzbandit1313, on 04 December 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Well maybe that would be good who knows. (mannig up has nothing to do with weapon choice) I'd also like to see lots of pulse and AC/2 builds. I don't want 70% of all mediums using the same setup or similar. and you may only use 3 AC/20 builds, but newbies see that and they slap it on everything.

i see far more idiotic SHAD builds with 3 AC2 or 3 MG than ac20s. But the BJ champ did bias that, especially since the BJ-1 is kinda like the poor man's medium CTF-3D, in that it is the only one you really can metarape in.

Fate 6, on 04 December 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

The standard, really? I have 16 different medium chassis, and I've got 3 of them using AC20s (I'd load up the same build as the champion BJ if I wanted to get the right XL engine).

I've been using a lot of my AC20 mechs recently, but that's just because of my preference. I miss my SRMs, so I've turned to the next best brawling weapon. Lasers are garbage, so what other choice to I have? AC10s are incredibly weight inefficient for a medium mech, and LB10-X is just not good. Gauss is well...it makes me sad now. So, AC20. Old faithful.

So my question is, you'd rather mediums conform to the meta of AC5/PPC/LL than man up and get in close?

try the ac10 and 2 larges on the Shad. WOnderful combo.

[Dino]

Isn't it awful that there is close range brawling ballistic weapon that works and is actually being used? Hmm, maybe if other brawling weapons worked we'd see some of those too/instead. You know, like when we used to see srms? Or long ago in another galaxy far away where pulse lasers, lbx 10s, flamers, and machine guns were actually useful.

Never mind, you're right. Nerf the ac20. It's completely ridiculous to give anyone a reason to close in under 400 meters. Should probably find some way to marginalize the standard medium while we're at it.

[CDLord HHGD]

Everyone wants to be a HBK-4G.

[Harlock1980]

I use AC20 and ML on 2 of my Heavy´s

The Flame 4 ML + AC 20 (35 Ammo)
Orion K 4 ML + AC 20 (42 Ammo) .. more Armor and Speed vs. the Flame but bigger Model

and i like it, good Brawlers for my Playstyle

Medium only the Hunchback 4G 2 ML + AC 20 (28 Ammo)

like it too

Edited by Harlock1980, 04 December 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Ok so i took a SHD put a ac20 in there with a pair of medium lasers a 275 engine and 3 JJ, i expected it to do fairly poorly, i ended up killing 4 lights with the ac20, 2 spiders a jenner and a raven, colour me surprised.

[Barantor]

DarkDevilDancer, on 04 December 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Ok so i took a SHD put a ac20 in there with a pair of medium lasers a 275 engine and 3 JJ, i expected it to do fairly poorly, i ended up killing 4 lights with the ac20, 2 spiders a jenner and a raven, colour me surprised.

I have a 3 streak, 1 lbx, 1 mdlas SHD I got 711 damage and 7 kills/5 assists with the other day... it is more about what you do with the weapons rather than what you have.

I don't like the ac/20, lots of damage but tonnage/ammo ratio is too low for me. I like staying alive and having lots of shots .

[Bishop Steiner]

DarkDevilDancer, on 04 December 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

Ok so i took a SHD put a ac20 in there with a pair of medium lasers a 275 engine and 3 JJ, i expected it to do fairly poorly, i ended up killing 4 lights with the ac20, 2 spiders a jenner and a raven, colour me surprised.

It's decent, just so limiting. And that is on a chassis that can be so versatile, and unlike most "non-boats" actually excel at being an all purpose mech.

[DarkDevilDancer]

The point was not my performance it was that with 3 weapons it worked surprisingly well, i normally run 1 ac10 2 mlas and streaks with a 315 XL i was just experimenting.

[Jazzbandit1313]

You guys need to focus on the point. We're not discussing nerfing the AC/20, but making the other weapons as viable as the AC/20. Im thinking:

Reduce AC/10 weight to 11 tons
Make MPlas 1.5 tons
Make LPlas 6 tons
Reduce AC/2 heat a tad bit

Stuff like this will bring more light to the other weapon systems that are (imo) being pretty ignored at this point by many.

[DONTOR]

Amsro, on 03 December 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

I see pretty much every random load-out in matches.

Meta is OP and needs to be nerfed.

Most mediums can't even mount an AC20.

Hmmm. AC20 capable mediums. Cicada, Blackjack, Cent, Hunch, Trebuchet, Shawk. And the only one that cant is the kintaro... soooo no.

[Amsro]

DONTOR, on 04 December 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Hmmm. AC20 capable mediums. Cicada, Blackjack, Cent, Hunch, Trebuchet, Shawk. And the only one that cant is the kintaro... soooo no.

You can't pick variants and group all the mechs in. Only the 7K treb has ballistics for example.

CDA-2A = No
CDA-2B = No
CDA-3C = Yes
CDA-3M = Yes
CDA-X5 = No
BJ-1 = Yes
BJ-1DC = Yes
BJ-1X = No
BJ-3 = No
CN9-A = No
CN9-AL = No
CN9-D = No
CN9-YLW = Yes
HBK-J = No
HBK-H = Yes
HBK-G = Yes
HBK-4P = No
HBK-4SP = No
TBT-5J = No
TBT-7M = No
TBT-7N = No
TBT-3C = No
TBT-7K = Yes
KTO-18 = No
KTO-19 = No
KTO-20 = No
KTO-GB = No
SHD-2H = Yes
SHD-2D2 = Yes
SHD-5M = Yes

19 variants can't use AC/20 and 11 can use AC/20, I would say that most mediums cannot use AC/20.

And there are another 6 mediums incoming that also can't mount AC/20.

[Ghogiel]

Mister Blastman, on 03 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

The Blackjack meta has been AC20 + Mlas for months. Where have you been?

The BJ1 Meta finally filtered down after it got the champion mech I suppose.

Which was several months late to the BJ party.

[FupDup]

Jazzbandit1313, on 04 December 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

You guys need to focus on the point. We're not discussing nerfing the AC/20, but making the other weapons as viable as the AC/20. Im thinking:

Reduce AC/10 weight to 11 tons
Make MPlas 1.5 tons
Make LPlas 6 tons
Reduce AC/2 heat a tad bit

Stuff like this will bring more light to the other weapon systems that are (imo) being pretty ignored at this point by many.

PGI ain't gonna touch tonnage or crits, for better are for worse. We'll have to rely on other stats.

[Deathlike]

Ghogiel, on 04 December 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

BJ party.

QFT

[Jazzbandit1313]

Maybe an AC/20 range change? i see that idea getting thrown around a lot.