102 replies to this topic

[Davers]

So according to this thread the only weapons that are ok are medium lasers, large lasers, PPCs, and AC5/10/20 and everything else should be buffed, right?

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Another thread calling out PGI for failing miserably at any semblance of weapon balance / weapon mechanics?

This thread wins my +1 and bump


So how's UI 2.0 going? Woulda been great if we had gotten in 7 weeks ago like they said, or DX11 exactly 14 months ago. And people wonder why I don't pay for this game...

Davers, on 04 December 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

So according to this thread the only weapons that are ok are medium lasers, large lasers, PPCs, and AC5/10/20 and everything else should be buffed, right?

Actually, yes. If you use any other weapons are you gimping yourself and your team.

Just to give you a rundown list of weapons to never put on your mech if you want to be considered a threat...

Mguns (damage)
Small Pulse (except 6 on a jenner, only exception -- and even then, meh)
Medium Pulse (weight, heat,range, poor weapon mechanic)
Large Pulse (weight, heat,range, poor weapon mechanic)
SRM2 ( poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
SRM4 ( poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
SRM6 (RoF, poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
ASRM2 (poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
ASRM4 ( poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
ASRM6( RoF, poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
LRM5 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
LRM10 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
LRM15 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
LRM20 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM, tonnage)
ALRM5 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
ALRM10 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
ALRM15 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
ALRM20 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM, tonnage)
Steaks SRM2 (Auto-aim, same lock-on as LRMs, Artemis bug, no dumb fire, ECM, ridiculous spread, other band-aid fixes like ECM fiasco, etc..)
Autocanon 2 (GHOST HEAT! also, why is it 1 heat instead of .5?)
Flamer (everything, literally everything)
Narc ( <insert goggles do nothing meme>, does not behave at all like its supposed to )
LBX10 ( ^ That, and it sucks *** because of it)



...considering how small of a weapon pool we have in this time line, thats a considerable amount of weapons horribly sub-par or broken. Please don't get me started on Equipment balance, either. Every problem this game has is because PGI half assed the weapon mechanics code and things either don't work function properly with bugs, don't do what they're supposed to, or don't work at all.

Edited by mwhighlander, 04 December 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Carrioncrows, on 03 December 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

...

Here is what it will look like if you are piloting a LRM 100 Stalker with full lock on;

Spoiler

[NuclearPanda]

Davers, on 04 December 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

So according to this thread the only weapons that are ok are medium lasers, large lasers, PPCs, and AC5/10/20 and everything else should be buffed, right?

Well to be fair and honest, ballistics actually need to be nerfed (except the AC2, which needs ghost heat reworked but not removed). Ballistics should definitely have their rate of fire decreased signifigantly IMHO.

I still want my Dogephract though.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 04 December 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[Mcgral18]

NuclearPanda, on 04 December 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Well to be fair and honest, ballistics actually need to be nerfed (except the AC2, which needs ghost heat reworked but not removed). Ballistics should definitely have their rate of fire decreased signifigantly IMHO.

I still want my Dogephract though.

They can keep the ROF and damage, but make it spread over their targets, keeping only the gauss as the fronloaded, along with the AC2. Even the PPC shouldn't be 10 pinpoint, but either 5 plus spread or a short beam.

If we tried that. TTK would likely rise a little since you can now torso twist and spreadalmost all weapon damage. But we don't have a test server to try any of these things...and aggressive weapon balance is under way.

[William Mountbank]

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

Agreed. And while youre at it:
-Increase range of SL and SPL

Assuming you weren't being sarcastic, for the price of zero tons you can triple the range of a SPL, and for just half a ton you can triple the range the of a SL.

[Tombstoner]

Hate to bust your bubble people but the game is in its best state ever after all that aggressive re balancing.
so much so that PGI feels that its ready to move on to clan weapons.... i wonder if the clan Gauss will have the delay removed?
That would be a good quality differential between clan and IS. even better clan tech will generate less ghost heat.
Hate to say it but this quality of Meh is what i expect for the clans. There uber tech will just fix the issues we hate about IS weapons.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Tombstoner, on 04 December 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

after all that aggressive re balancing. so much so that PGI feels that its ready to move on to clan weapons....

Wow, I get to use the same image macro twice in a row!

[Aaron45]

Troutmonkey, on 03 December 2013 - 07:28 PM, said:

Wow Bill, I used to think highly of you.
Making SRMs do more damage isn't go to fix them. It's going to make them wildly inconsistant will some alpha's absolutely destroying any mech (Splatcat anyone?), while other Alphas will do nothing at all.

There is a major problem with hit reg, it's not just SRMs that are being affected. It is being looked at, but as a system that's deeply rooted into the core game the fix could be difficult to find and impliment without braking something else. It certainly is frustrating to wait for these fixes, but swearing your **** off isn't going to get you anywhere

EDIT: Apparently T1ts is filtered. Damn these overzelous systems

Exactly dude, the srms will **** up everthing if they hit, and they hit 80% of the time. The hole thread is just not well thought just thrown out as a reaction of a weaknes of a weapon without knowing why it sucks.

FupDup, on 03 December 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

Oh, and also the LBX needs love too. Maybe we could even sneak in a small reload speed buff to the AC/10.

|Ridiculous as the Op´s Thread

Can be closed,

mwhighlander, on 04 December 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Mguns (damage)
Small Pulse (except 6 on a jenner, only exception -- and even then, meh)
Medium Pulse (weight, heat,range, poor weapon mechanic)
Large Pulse (weight, heat,range, poor weapon mechanic)
SRM2 ( poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
SRM4 ( poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
SRM6 (RoF, poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
ASRM2 (poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
ASRM4 ( poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
ASRM6( RoF, poor weapon mechanic, no NARC lock-on, hit detection, huge spread)
LRM5 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
LRM10 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
LRM15 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
LRM20 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM, tonnage)
ALRM5 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
ALRM10 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
ALRM15 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM)
ALRM20 (Minimum range, slow speed, poor hit %, no NARC lock-on, ECM, tonnage)
Steaks SRM2 (Auto-aim, same lock-on as LRMs, Artemis bug, no dumb fire, ECM, ridiculous spread, other band-aid fixes like ECM fiasco, etc..)
Autocanon 2 (GHOST HEAT! also, why is it 1 heat instead of .5?)
Flamer (everything, literally everything)
Narc ( <insert goggles do nothing meme>, does not behave at all like its supposed to )
LBX10 ( ^ That, and it sucks *** because of it)

Ridicuous list. PGI PLease shut down game - 90 % is broken or what?

Davers, on 04 December 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

So according to this thread the only weapons that are ok are medium lasers, large lasers, PPCs, and AC5/10/20 and everything else should be buffed, right?

those meta/competitive fenbois allways use the most powerful combi ( now its the ppc ac combo or what ever)

They will allways btch on the forum cuz some weapon will allways be good over other and they will never use anything else but the best

Edited by Aaron45, 04 December 2013 - 08:49 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Everything nicely summed up in the first two posts in this thread, so really nothing to add but...

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, LOOK AT NARC AND *PLAS

[Ghogiel]

I remember when SRMs were the ****.

Now they just ****.

[PappySmurf]

Anyone remember MekTek? All those clowns did was make mechs and OP weapons for NHUA matches anything else bahhhh we will work on it soon. Granted the MechWarrior community played10 years more but I believe it was more because of NBT and MWL leagues than MekTek in general.Why do I bring this up? Because PGI acts the same way building mechs and trinkets for sale and BLAHHH I will get to the important stuff when we can like mech hitboxes-weapons balance-social environment-lobbys-private matches-ETC.So in another 5 years we might have all these and more!!! hahaha im sorry but im tired of hearing the same BS after 2 year of empty promises.

Edited by PappySmurf, 04 December 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[Aaron45]

Ghogiel, on 04 December 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

I remember when SRMs were the ****.

Now they just ****.

Srms stilll good if they decide to hit. 80% of the time they hit, but the non hits just fks the weapon up if you rely on it and it doesnt works

Edited by Aaron45, 04 December 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[NuclearPanda]

Aaron45, on 04 December 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

Srms stilll good if they decide to hit. 80% of the time they hit, but the non hits just fks the weapon up if you rely on it and it doesnt works

Yup. Hit detection is the biggest problem with them at the moment. That's not an easy fix, and I understand that, but it's seriously been many many months that they've been broken.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

What about better fix hit detection on SRMs be4 buffing it dmg?
I hate when I miss with dual SRM6 even if I can clearly see I scored hit(missiles exploded on a mech).

[NuclearPanda]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 05 December 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

What about better fix hit detection on SRMs be4 buffing it dmg?
I hate when I miss with dual SRM6 even if I can clearly see I scored hit(missiles exploded on a mech).

That's what I've been saying for a long time now. SRM damage is probably just fine. They should be like 2.25 or something, with a small amount of splash damage, but the issue is the fact that many times they do NOT hit their intended target as displayed by the paper doll flash.

[General Taskeen]

I still think SRM badness comes down to their firing mechanic.

MW2 SRMs, now those were amazing. They fired 1 missile at a time, but very fast, so it was basically a stream of super fast flying missiles.

In MWO, they mostly always have been slow (relegated to extreme close range), and fire at the same time (in a blob similar to LRMs). All that has changed is their damage, which doesn't address the core mechanics, and only address how useful the 'slowblobfiring' is.

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 December 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Kunae]

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

-Increase range of SL and SPL

No. Just put their heat back to canon.

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

-Increaase speed of MG's and LRM's

No.

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

-Increase damage threshold of NARC

Sort of agree... they really need to rethink NARC and whether it can even fit in MWO.

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

-Increase damage of MPL

No, the heat just needs to be put back to canon, same with the standard ML.

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

-Decrease spread of LBX

LBX shotgun spread is fine, as is. What they need to do is put in an ability to toggle between shotgun and solid-shot.

[stjobe]

Kekkone, on 04 December 2013 - 05:16 AM, said:

-Increaase speed of MG's

How can you increase something that's already hitscan?

Edit: The MG isn't implemented as a ballistic weapon, it's implemented as a laser with bullet graphics. However those graphics have nothing to do with the actual weapon implementation:
* MGs are hitscan; pull the trigger and the target takes damage immediately.
* MGs have 2x max range like energy weapons, not 3x like ballistics
* MGs got HSR in phase 1 with the energy weapons, not phase 2 with the ballistics

So basically the MG is a laser with no cooldown, doing 10 damage ticks per second (HSR permitting). The bullet-stream gfx is just smokes and mirrors.

Edited by stjobe, 05 December 2013 - 08:42 AM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Homeless Bill, on 03 December 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

That SRMs are bad? Because they are. Since we're clearly not going to get a missile hit registration fix anytime soon, can we please push the damage up to 2.5? Please?

But what about when they finally do fix hit registration? Just turn the damage back down to 2.0 in the same patch or just let SRMs have a week of being overpowered. What, like direct fire alphas haven't had their day in the sun?


It's not. Even on large, stationary 'mechs, SRMs are ****** compared to their direct fire counterparts.


As much as the forums are a bit of a whiny cesspool sometimes, game balance is one thing I'd trust more to people here than whoever is in charge now.

Months of machine guns being bad, while PGI continues to tell us they're just fine. PGI decides making it a crit-seeking weapon will be enough, and the forums disagree. Fast forward a few months, the forums were right, and the machine guns, in addition to being savage crit-seekers, have had their damage more than doubled.

Months of endless poptarting, an unsuccessful attempt to end it with Ghost Heat, and then finally the PPC nerf that players had been begging for.

Also, pulse lasers have always been bad and still are bad. What's the point of having a balance forum when there's so rarely an attempt to balance out underperforming things?

TL;DR: Buff SRMs and pulse lasers. Because they're bad and there's no reason not to. Seriously, it's a number in a text file - why can we not get at least that small courtesy?

Out of curiosity - what's the ideal state you're looking for? There has to be a best weapon and a worst weapon or it's just going to get more boring. Personally, I love LPL, but thats mainly because I like to sneak them onto lights. MPL aren't for me, but SPL are great on a jenner kneecap-puncher. I worry that the weapons will get *so* balanced that there's no reason to take one weapon over another. I do miss the monster machine guns we had a while back - that was fun! My post isn't meant to be argumentative, it's more to determine what the ideal state is, then we can worry about getting to that ideal state.

Edited by Fierostetz, 05 December 2013 - 09:01 AM.