110 replies to this topic

[Mcchuggernaut]

Some of the new spawns are great.

That being said, a few are deathtraps. Terra Therma has one of the worst examples. Especially for big mechs that don't move very fast and can't easily regroup. People are starting to figure this out and exploit it. Twice I have been mobbed literally 2 minutes into the game when I fell behind all the other fast mechs trying to get back together and was annihilated. There is nothing you can do in that situation, and it is an unfair disadvantage. People are figuring it out and charging to the spawn points in fast mechs to swarm and pick off the heavies and assaults before they can get to the rest of the team. This would be OK if you didn't get dropped in a lance where you were with a bunch of scout mechs or mediums that ran off and left you, but it often happens. It's irritating, and spending half the game on big maps just trying to reach your team and hoping you don't get found and swarmed by lights and mediums with no backup just takes the fun out of the game.

Instead of penalizing starting in a big mech, how about you fix this, PGI? It's irritating enough having to spend half the game walking instead of fighting on Terra Therma and Alpine if you aren't a scout, and we shouldn't also have to worry about this nonsense.

Edit: Here is the screenshot I was talking about taking further on in the thread.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 05 December 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

What's your solution?

[Mcchuggernaut]

Alistair Winter, on 04 December 2013 - 01:43 AM, said:

What's your solution?

I see you around the forums a lot and know you are respected here. Feel free to tell me if I am being stupid.

Well, I did present a problem without a clear solution. I suppose starting the lances closer together to allow easier re-grouping would help. Maybe fine-tuning them so some of the ones that are very hard to regroup from are re-positioned. If we were able to group heavies/assaults in lances, and lights and mediums together that would also help, but that might not be practical. I do think something needs done though, and wonder if others are in agreement.

I'm not a game designer so I am sure someone else could probably find a better idea than me. I just felt this should be brought to someone in authority's attention.

On a side note: Those are the exceptions. I have enjoyed the vast majority of the new spawns.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 04 December 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Blurry]

Buy oxide or new mech for improvements please.
sadly that is what it has come to it appears.

why think about the consequences of their actions and the outcomes - that complicates and adds time. or you know like test the spawns?

[Will HellFire]

Blurry, on 04 December 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

Buy oxide or new mech for improvements please.
sadly that is what it has come to it appears.

Nonsense.

[John MatriX82]

The new spawn points lead to this, while it's not a big deal in competitive 12man because you can organize, in pug matches the chances to lose instantly one lance or few critical weight is a great handicap.

Pugs already wandered around to die even when they spawned up with the main team now it's even easier to get down a few men in no-time. This has been one of the worst choices and it's the proof this game should have been in BETA stage until now and for who knows how many months.

PGI hasn't yet figured that to balance this game they need to restrict hardpoints and now the matchmaker can express it's incapacity by spawning one medium lance vs an assault one in its immediate vicinity. Good idea indeed.

[Mcchuggernaut]

John MatriX82, on 04 December 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

spawning one medium lance vs an assault one in its immediate vicinity.

While that isn't good, a medium can run away from an assault or a heavy. A lone assault gets shafted worse. They are pretty much stuck in a bad situation, which is the whole point of my post. A good assault or heavy pilot knows to keep teammates nearby because they can't run from a bad situation. When you just get put in that position by luck of spawn placement instead of bad gameplay decisions you feel like your skills don't count for anything and that you were cheated out of a fighting chance.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 04 December 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[Asmudius Heng]

Lance chat is your friend.

Organise your lance even in pugs. you have just 3 people to create a rough game plan with.

Nothing will stop ***** team mates doesnt matter the spawn points.

Also reversing and giving ground to regroup elsewhere is a viable tactic you dont need to push forward as your only option.

[sneeking]

and its even worse if you spawn in an isolated position with a disconect and a non participating farmer, you don't ev3n have the power of chat at your disposal !

[Mcchuggernaut]

Asmudius Heng, on 04 December 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Lance chat is your friend.

Organise your lance even in pugs. you have just 3 people to create a rough game plan with.

Nothing will stop ***** team mates doesnt matter the spawn points.

Also reversing and giving ground to regroup elsewhere is a viable tactic you dont need to push forward as your only option.

All good tactics. But problems:

People don't listen. They still run off and leave you. Try telling 3 lights to "please don't leave me, I need an escort to the rest of the team so I can join the firing line and deal heavy damage!" and you will get "screw you, buddy. We're off to cap and harass the enemy. Your on your own."

If you don't at least try and return to your team, they are essentially a man down, and you WILL eventually be found and destroyed.

Reversing and giving ground SOUNDS practical, and is in some situations, but in a slow assault, alone, at the beginning of a match, you will not be helping your team by backing up and trying to loop around the edge of the huge map to stay out of sight. You will likely still be found, mobbed, and killed anyway or miss the whole game walking.

Tactics aside, this situation is still a huge disadvantage that you did not put yourself in through poor tactics or bad play, just luck of the draw in a mech that suffers from bad positioning more than any other class. Indeed, this seems to be a heavy and assault class problem almost exclusively.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 04 December 2013 - 03:13 AM.

[sneeking]

such situations could lead to a drop in casual public play, if players must roll the dice and be delt poor situations they may lose intrest in playing anything but organised team matches once a week or couple of weeks when everyone can find time to be on together.

that = less account activity on an overall average and will result in less mc spent + a reduced desire to purchase mech packages and other items.

long story short pgi gets less return on their time investment and mwo dies.

[Asmudius Heng]

Mcchuggernaut, on 04 December 2013 - 02:59 AM, said:

All good tactics. But problems:

People don't listen. They still run off and leave you.

If you don't at least try and return to your team, they are essentially a man down, and you WILL eventually be found and destroyed.

Reversing and giving ground SOUNDS practical, and is in some situations, but in a slow assault, alone, at the beginning of a match, you will not be helping your team by backing up and trying to loop around the edge of the huge map to stay out of sight. You will likely still be found, mobbed, and killed anyway or miss the whole game walking.

Tactics aside, this situation is still a huge disadvantage that you did not put yourself in through poor tactics or bad play, just luck of the draw in a mech that suffers from bad positioning more than any other class.

People do not listen no matter the start point i do not see thats a spawn point problem.

I do agree that its tough being caught alone with a lumbering assault, but I really hope the matchmaker can start to group similar weights together to help that somewhat - though you can already reorder your drop grouping before the game - become a commander and mess around and put the big boys together migth help.

The thing is the other side has the same disadvantage so its not like anyone is being hard done by tactically - the issue seems to be major lance mismatches leading to mixed playstyles and lack of communication. This can be altered - and the new spawns can certainly be adjusted if some are a bit too far flung but overall i think it adds new interesting elements.

Maybe its a deliberate tactic to discourage so many assaults

[stjobe]

This is the problem with PUGs, they don't really care. They'll leave a lance-mate high and dry without a thought, and run off to die separated from the very thing that would have been able to save their own shiny metal rear center torsos.

That's PUG life; get used to it.

It's a social problem, so no amount of technical solutions will do a lick of difference. Either you get a lance that understands that working together is better for all involved, or you're SOL and just have to bite the bullet and hope for a better group next drop.

[John MatriX82]

stjobe, on 04 December 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

This is the problem with PUGs, they don't really care. They'll leave a lance-mate high and dry without a thought, and run off to die separated from the very thing that would have been able to save their own shiny metal rear center torsos.

That's PUG life; get used to it.

It's a social problem, so no amount of technical solutions will do a lick of difference. Either you get a lance that understands that working together is better for all involved, or you're SOL and just have to bite the bullet and hope for a better group next drop.

That's correct. Even before pugs wandered away from the main group, but usually even a dumbster can undestand that he can't go rambo with a locust and it's better to stay in the vicinity of the main team.

Now that concept has been completely thrown out of the window. Whoever had this genius idea should hide his head under the desk for the rest of his life. And I'm being really soft.

Edited by John MatriX82, 04 December 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[JimboFBX]

if the commander can move mechs around that would work. Currently you stay at your spawn point even if you change lances.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Asmudius Heng, on 04 December 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

People do not listen no matter the start point i do not see thats a spawn point problem.

you can already reorder your drop grouping before the game

The thing is the other side has the same disadvantage so its not like anyone is being hard done by tactically

Maybe its a deliberate tactic to discourage so many assaults

Well, true about them not listening, but it's easier to pick the group that seems to be sticking together and moving with a purpose when you start near the other lances.

You can re-order lance affiliation, but your still spawning at the same points you were spawned with the same mechs you were spawned by.

The other team's big mechs have the same disadvantage, so it's still just those two classes getting boned.

Discouraging assaults? I have no idea, but I'm seeing mostly heavies, lights, and a smattering of mediums these days. You might get a lance worth of true assaults in most games if your lucky.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 04 December 2013 - 03:24 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Well at least the idea of dynamic spawn points have some merit

What is a problem is positioning of Mechs with fitting gear and the right position.
A long range support Mech that found himself on River City flank - only hundreds of meters away from the start position of a premade lance of Brawlers is toast - no matter what he does.

Maybe - the Module Roll system is a bandaid attemp to give the Matchmaker more informations how to create the lance composition for PuG matches....

For example: I have a YenLo -> with AC 20 and 300XL.... even when I want to do it - i can't play bodyguard or meat shield for a Atlas - I'm a lone hunter - a harasser (i try to flank and attack from the rear- if possible)

With a 225STD however - i don't have problems to play babysitter for an Assault Mech.

There is a reason that most players use super easy - all or nothing builds... it doesn't matter what your team does - you move into a position where you can make the best with your Mech without to consider things like tactic or team work.

A AC 40 Jaeger can charge right from its start into the enemy....(or he waits for some seconds until the enemy is engaged in combat)
A Quad UAC 5 Jaeger - only need a LOS to the enemy - doesn't really matter - where he starts

On the other hand there are a couple of Mechs that need team play badly. (and i don't mention 100% pure LRM boats)

[Ahasver]

Mcchuggernaut, on 04 December 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

That being said, a few are deathtraps. Terra Therma has one of the worst examples. Especially for big mechs that don't move very fast and can't easily regroup. People are starting to figure this out and exploit it. Twice I have been mobbed literally 2 minutes into the game when I fell behind all the other fast mechs trying to get back together and was annihilated. There is nothing you can do in that situation, and it is an unfair disadvantage.

This is clearly the fault of your Teammates leaving you alone. And this said, there is something you can do about this situation, it is called Teamplay.

And it is not at all difficult, I say it is more easy now. Now you drop in groups of 4 and therefore you should know right away who are the guys to stick with. There is actually an option called "Take Lance Command" whioch enables you to direct the group you drop with.

If you are left alone and therefore killed by a wolfpack, this means you had some Idiots as Teammates and you all failed in using the very basic means of communication.
A simple "guys do not leave me alone until we meet the other Lance at C4" is easy to type and works most of the times.

I really get quite tired watching complains and full blown flame wars against PGI because ppl. refuse to play with a MINIMUM of tactical thought.

If you get ripped apart from a wolfpack then your Team played bad, maybe even you played bad. In Terrra Terma I had 10 drops yesterday and the other Lance was always just around the corner and I could reach them quite well without meeting enemeys. Look at the map, chose a path where there is ptrobably no enemy and go to the others. If you use the time before drop to see in which lance you can find the Mechs you need to stick with ... you are almost done with the minimum of thought you need to put into this game.

[Asmudius Heng]

Mcchuggernaut, on 04 December 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

Well, true about them not listening, but it's easier to pick the group that seems to be sticking together and moving with a purpose when you start near the other lances.

You can re-order lance affiliation, but your still spawning at the same points you were spawned with the same mechs you were spawned by.

The other team's big mechs have the same disadvantage, so it's still just those two classes getting boned.

Discouraging assaults? I have no idea, but I'm seeing mostly heavies, lights, and a smattering of mediums these days. You might get a lance worth of true assaults in most games if your lucky.

Ah i did not realise that changing the lances around didnt change where they were spawned. That seems like something that should change so pugs can start in similar groupings.

My apologies

[Mcchuggernaut]

Asmudius Heng, on 04 December 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

Ah i did not realise that changing the lances around didnt change where they were spawned. That seems like something that should change so pugs can start in similar groupings.

My apologies

It's not a problem, I appreciate your feedback!

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 04 December 2013 - 03:33 AM.